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Missile shield in Europe is 'urgent' - Bush

Narmer

Diamond Member
This statement doesn't make any sense on multiple levels:

1. Why is it urgent now than when there was actually a Cold War and an opposing superpower that could do unimaginable damage to Europe?

2. Is Iran the new threat that Europe needs protection from? How the fuck does Iran stack up to the USSR? Is this a presumption that Iran is full of suicidal maniacs that have a hard-on for destroying Europe? It doesn't make any sense.

3. Why the fuck is Bush saying these things and the Europeans are not? It's their homes and their backyard. Why is Bush so obsessed with protecting them? Why can't the Europeans do this themselves?

All this leads me to believe that the President wants this missile shield as an excuse to keep up defense spending. Without a doubt, Bush is banking on provoking the Russians or others then point to them to justify the spending. There is obviously no threat from Iran to Europe or anybody. This is chutzpah if ever there was one. It's like a child that kills his parents then feign sympathy for being an orphan.

Isn't this obvious to everyone else or are people just looking at the dollar signs?


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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7058622.stm

Missile shield is 'urgent' - Bush

US President George W Bush has said there is a "real and urgent" need for a missile defence system in Europe.


Mr Bush said the missile threat was from the Middle East, not Russia, which strongly opposes sites for the shield in Poland and the Czech Republic.

He warned that Iran could have a ballistic missile capable of reaching Europe or the US by 2015.

Earlier, US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said the shield could be delayed while Russian concerns were tackled.

Iran threat

In a speech at the National Defence University in Washington, Mr Bush said: "The need for missile defence in Europe is real and I believe it's urgent."

He said the planned system was not designed to tackle missiles from Russia as it would be easily overwhelmed by Moscow's arsenal.

"The Cold War is over. Russia is not our enemy," he said.

Mr Bush said the US had invited Russia to "join us against an emerging threat that affects us all... we ought to respond to this threat together".

The president said if "rogue states" had less confidence their missiles would strike, they would be "less likely to engage in acts of aggression in the first place".

Mr Bush also attacked the US Congress for reducing funding to missile shield systems.

Earlier, Mr Gates had said activation of the European shield could be delayed until there was "definitive proof" of a missile threat from states such as Iran.

He said after meeting Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek in Prague: "We would consider tying together activation of the sites in Poland and the Czech Republic with definitive proof of the threat - in other words, Iranian missile testing and so on."

Map of US missile defence systems

The missile shield system would see a radar site set up in the Czech Republic and a missile interceptor base in Poland.

Russia has vehemently opposed bases on the territories of its former Warsaw Pact allies.

Mr Gates and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice received a frosty reception when they tried to sell the plan in Moscow this month.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow saw the shield as a "potential threat" to its security and wanted to "neutralise" it.

Russian President Vladimir Putin widened the debate by also threatening to abandon a key nuclear missile treaty.

He said it would be difficult to remain part of the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty unless it was expanded to include more countries than just the US and Russia.
 
Well to be fair to 'ol Bush, the missile shield would have been useless against the Soviet Union... well... more useless then it is now. The number of missiles available to the Soviets would have totally overwhelmed any defensive system we could hope to put up.

It's more that we're afraid that our nuclear deterrant won't, well, deter the states that are developing nuclear weapons now and so we need some sort of other system. Since this system really pisses off the rest of the world as they feel it threatens their deterrant against us (no matter how unlikely that is), trying to get more nations covered under it brings them into your camp and limits opposition. I'm sure this is why Bush is trying to get them in on it.

Of course this shield is stupid and pointless considering any nation with a desire to nuke us is extremely unlikely to use a ballistic missile to do so, but I guess that's a different discussion for a different time.
 
Originally posted by: Narmer
This statement doesn't make any sense on multiple levels:

1. Why is it urgent now than when there was actually a Cold War and an opposing superpower that could do unimaginable damage to Europe?

The Cold War ended in the late IIRC, and was with the USSR which no longer even exists. I don't see what that has to do with this?

2. Is Iran the new threat that Europe needs protection from? How the fuck does Iran stack up to the USSR? Is this a presumption that Iran is full of suicidal maniacs that have a hard-on for destroying Europe? It doesn't make any sense.

I believe it's Iran and the nearby Eastern Euro countries, whom are now our allies. Again, USSR no longer exists, and IIRC Russia is the one assisting Iran. I don't see how they want or need any "protection" from Iran.

The smaller Eastern Euro countries (formerly of the USSR) lack the resources to defend themselves. If we have any defense-type treaties with them, wouldn't it make more sense to extend protection to them rather relying on counter-strike capability?


3. Why the fuck is Bush saying these things and the Europeans are not? It's their homes and their backyard. Why is Bush so obsessed with protecting them? Why can't the Europeans do this themselves?

Contrary to you, I was under the impression they wanted it.

All this leads me to believe that the President wants this missile shield as an excuse to keep up defense spending. Without a doubt, Bush is banking on provoking the Russians or others then point to them to justify the spending. There is obviously no threat from Iran to Europe or anybody. This is chutzpah if ever there was one. It's like a child that kills his parents then feign sympathy for being an orphan.

I think the "chutzpah" is on the side of the Russians. What business is it of theirs if the other Eastern Euro countries want missle shield assistance?

Russia claims it puts them at a strategic disadvantage, as if they want to retain the threat over those former colonies of the USSR. Or is it that Russia fears the eastern Euro countries will attack Russia if they have the protection of the shield? Who's over-reacting to non-existant threats here?

BTW: IMO, you're in the minority claiming that Iran poses no threat. Most in the USA don't feel that way, nor do many of their neighboring countries


Isn't this obvious to everyone else or are people just looking at the dollar signs?

I think increased high-tech weaponization of the ME region is the primary concern, not money/profit issues.

-snip-

See above bolded responses.

Fern
 
You don't want the first indication of the danger to be a mushroom cloud.

mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud.

mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud.
 
Oops, Did you notice that a patriot missle fired by accident a few days ago?

The incident occurred Monday night in Washington, Tuesday in Qatar, while the military was conducting training at Camp As Sayliyah on the outskirts of Doha, Ham said.

He said he didn't know if the launch was caused by human error or mechanical malfunction and that it is under investigation.

"We don't know why or how the missile inadvertently launched, but it did," Ham told a Pentagon press conference
Text
 
Bush is trying to attack Iran before he leaves office

Maybe it is important? Let's cause a big mess over the 1-5 scud missiles Iran might have that can reach Europe.. capable of causing a hole in the ground. Be afraid.
 
Fear Fear Fear, Terrer Terrer Terrer, Fear Fear Fear, Terrer Terrer Terrer

Worked on U.S. Sheeple, it ought to work on Europeans as well.
 
Bush wants to create as big of a mess as he can before he leaves, guaranteeing trillions more dollars for defense contractors to clean it up, plus a political mess for Hillary to deal with. He's going to start a war with Iran, reignite the Cold War with Russia, and maybe attack Syria while he's at it.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing a missile shield between Asia and Europe - it's a defensive system FFS! I also hope you guys know that the shields have nothing to do with Patriot missiles...
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing a missile shield between Asia and Europe - it's a defensive system FFS! I also hope you guys know that the shields have nothing to do with Patriot missiles...

Exactly who do I as an American taxpayer need to pay to defend Europe from Asia?
EU is wealthy and has it's own defense and aerospace industries. If they feel Iranian missiles are a threat, they can build their own missile defense.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
You don't want the first indication of the danger to be a mushroom cloud.

mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud.

mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud.
mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud. mushroom cloud.

Stop it.
9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11
9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11
9-11 9-11 9-11
9-11
terror terror terror terror








 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing a missile shield between Asia and Europe - it's a defensive system FFS! I also hope you guys know that the shields have nothing to do with Patriot missiles...

It's Bush trying to defend the welfare (pun intended) of the military industrial complex of which his family are HUGE beneficiaries.

This thing is a total joke. There are literally hundreds of scenarios that this will do absolutely squat to prevent. It has only tested (last ones that I saw anyway) at ~50% success rate. Yeah, let's spend hundreds of billions on a coin toss. :roll:
 
Saddam Hussein was an Urgent threat, too...

Might want to reference the truth in that assertion as a reference point in evaluating the current raving from the Whitehouse...

And, yeh, I'm forced to agree with senseamp's assessment of the Bush Clan's true intentions- they'd like nothing better than to create irrevocable situations where America is forced to follow their policies well after their denouement and ouster...
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
And, yeh, I'm forced to agree with senseamp's assessment of the Bush Clan's true intentions- they'd like nothing better than to create irrevocable situations where America is forced to follow their policies well after their denouement and ouster...
lol.. is that what's happening in '09? Bush will be "ousted" following his successful completion of two full terms?
 
lol.. is that what's happening in '09? Bush will be "ousted" following his successful completion of two full terms?

Successful completion of two full terms? Helluva definition of success. History will likely define it in terms of infamy.

They may not make it that far, anyway, and the Rovian dreams of some sort of "dynasty" or "permanent majority" are dead, the opportunity to pick their successor and preserve their legacy of deceit along with it.

There won't be enough paper shredders inside the beltway to satisfy the demand from Cheney's office if Dems take the Whitehouse, not to mention the rest of the admin...
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: palehorse74
There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing a missile shield between Asia and Europe - it's a defensive system FFS! I also hope you guys know that the shields have nothing to do with Patriot missiles...

Exactly who do I as an American taxpayer need to pay to defend Europe from Asia?
EU is wealthy and has it's own defense and aerospace industries. If they feel Iranian missiles are a threat, they can build their own missile defense.

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
It is strange for the US to want to build a missile shield for hostile countries.

See Great Circle

When long distance aviation or nautical routes are drawn on a flat map (for instance, the Mercator projection), they often look curved. This is because they lie on great circles. A route that would look like a straight line on the map would actually be longer.

Any attacks from the middle east would likely cross in the region they want to build this on their way to the USA.

See purely hypothetical paths.
 
Missile shield = :laugh:😀🙂

What a complete lie. Oh wait, I saw the animation where the space satellite shot down the evil missiles, with laser beams.
 
Bush will be gone in 13 months and hopefully it will be someone besides a Bush-clone who will replace him.

I doubt GWB can push this through Coingress in the next 13 months. Can he fund this without Congressional approval?
 
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Bush will be gone in 13 months and hopefully it will be someone besides a Bush-clone who will replace him.

I doubt GWB can push this through Coingress in the next 13 months. Can he fund this without Congressional approval?
Most of the repubs are bush clones and even hillary's foreign policy sounds a lot like she went to the same FP school as bush.

 
Originally posted by: novasatori
Any attacks from the middle east would likely cross in the region they want to build this on their way to the USA.

See purely hypothetical paths.

Cool, so Iran could nuke the $&*! out of south-eastern Europe without the missile shield being able to act in time. And that for a shield which, according to Bush, is meant as a protection for Europe.
 
I don't know any European countries that thinks it's urgent (maybe Britain?). Bush can place it in Czech republic or Polen because these contries are new in Nato, and eager to be best in the class. I don't think any other European countries would tolerate it on their ground.

The only reason I can see for Bush's urgensy is an imminent attack on Iran. Iran would then retaliate with whatever weapons they have, and some rockets might find their way to Europe. Iran would newer start an attack first, but the U.S. would without doubt start an attack if they felt they could.


Jostein
 
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Originally posted by: novasatori
Any attacks from the middle east would likely cross in the region they want to build this on their way to the USA.

See purely hypothetical paths.

Cool, so Iran could nuke the $&*! out of south-eastern Europe without the missile shield being able to act in time. And that for a shield which, according to Bush, is meant as a protection for Europe.

Well, it probably would be able to protect Europe too, I was just showing that its not ONLY for Europe, but also missiles from the ME would pass there on the way to the USA.
 
Originally posted by: novasatori

Well, it probably would be able to protect Europe too, I was just showing that its not ONLY for Europe, but also missiles from the ME would pass there on the way to the USA.

I had a look at your great circle map, and it certainly gives a clue about why they might want to place it in Eastern Europe (in addition to the facts that these contries are the ones most likely to let them place it there). However, the current longest range Iran missile does not go further than 2100 km, just reaching he southeasternmost region of Europe (See Shahab-3 Range)

So, either the U.S. administration thinks Iran will soon have much better rockets, or the shield is meant to stop Iran missiles heading for southern parts of Europe in case of a U.S. attack on Iran.

 
most Europeans don't care. If Iran tried s**t, they would end up as a car park because of French and British nuclear weapons. Any attack against any NATO member is an attack against the allliance. Iran knows this and they are not that stupid.
 
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