Minnesota, can now be charged for DUI in a car that doesn't start

[BoberFett]

No, that's not a good analogy. I won't bother with it, but strong suspicions he had WMD with the UN resolutions in place WERE reason to get the inspectors in and check.

It's a perfect analogy, you're a hack, an apologist, and an all around bad person. You'd be a worse president than Bush.

 

[Craig234]

Hell man, I very, very rarely even drink anymore. Havne't for somewhere around 15 years. I do ocassionally imbibe but it's usually a special occassion. This doesn't affect me much personally but I still see it as wrong.

The DUI laws have gotten to the point that they are becoming counter effective. I even know a few people who drive without a license and insurance. They just figure that if the illegals can do it, so can they.

You know some bad people. They're wrong and they have bad morals and logic.

 

[xj0hnx]

you are a real piece of work

Naw, just a big government worshipper/apologist, and loony left extraordinaire.

This case isn't even a "Slippery slope", it's an obscene perversion of the legal system.

 

[ElFenix]

If you can articulate well enough there is probable cause for just about anything. And this situation s a ground ball. Someone sleeping in a car? "Your honor, It was about safety. I was concerned for his well being and wanted to check on him to make sure he was alright."

good ol' public caretaking function.

and when they woke him he was probably visibly drunk or admitted to drinking a ton, at which point there was probable cause.

 

[Craig234]

I do not drink and have zero sympathy for drunk driving and if this guy really had multiple DUI convictions he should have been sitting in jail long time ago, however this is total bs. Key in the ignition laws are also bs. On a cold winter night I'd rather have drunk person sleep it off with running car rather than freezing to death or trying to drive home before he gets arrested. As long as the car is not moving I have zero problem with it.

P.S. Craig234 you're waaaaaay off base on this one. It's embarrassing really.

P.S.2. For all those harping up on Fear No Evil for his Obama post, tap your sarcasm meters, he managed to point out fallacy in Craig234 argument in a single line.

I'm listening to you, but your argument is that he was parked outside his apartment to avoid the cold you speculate there was or sleep off being drunk before driving home. What was embarrassing again?

I asked a question you didn't answer, to supply me with the cases where, if there was a law agaist being drunk in your car with the key other than at a drinking location, the person ha a reason to get into their car drunk, and can't give the officer a reason that holds up why they did? I'd like to hear about this big need to do this that would hurt the innocent people.

 

[daishi5]

I'm listening to you, but your argument is that he was parked outside his apartment to avoid the cold you speculate there was or sleep off being drunk before driving home. What was embarrassing again?

I asked a question you didn't answer, to supply me with the cases where, if there was a law agaist being drunk in your car with the key other than at a drinking location, the person ha a reason to get into their car drunk, and can't give the officer a reason that holds up why they did? I'd like to hear about this big need to do this that would hurt the innocent people.

There is a law against driving a car while under the influence. The car, when tested, was not capable of being driven. Therefore, unless the state can prove that at the time of the arrest the vehicle was capable of functioning, he has a very strong case that he did not drive under the influence because the car he was in was incapable of being driven. Now, if he can be charged because he intended to drive, I would say this has merit, but I believe the charge is based on actually driving the vehicle while drunk. If an officer sees a drunk man come out of a bar and get in a car, I think he has to wait till he actually starts the car and begins driving, then pulls him over.

 

[alphatarget1]

The jury consists of a bunch of retards.

The MN supreme court is also run by a bunch of idiots.

 

[Craig234]

There is a law against driving a car while under the influence. The car, when tested, was not capable of being driven. Therefore, unless the state can prove that at the time of the arrest the vehicle was capable of functioning, he has a very strong case that he did not drive under the influence because the car he was in was incapable of being driven. Now, if he can be charged because he intended to drive, I would say this has merit, but I believe the charge is based on actually driving the vehicle while drunk. If an officer sees a drunk man come out of a bar and get in a car, I think he has to wait till he actually starts the car and begins driving, then pulls him over.

As I said, if he can show the car was undirivable such that he could not driven it home and fallen asleep, then he should not be arrested for drunk driving.

I'm not suggesting he be charged with intent to drive drunk, that's too hard to prove for it to be a crime.

You haven't answered y question yet.

 

[GoPackGo]

This is just more proof that DWI Laws are about collecting money and not saving lives.

So this now means, if I am in my RV at a campground, I drink and fall asleep in one of the RV's beds...I can be arrested for DWI.

 

[ElFenix]

edit: i think i have gotten lost amongst the pages of this thread.

edit2: yup

 

[daishi5]

As I said, if he can show the car was undirivable such that he could not driven it home and fallen asleep, then he should not be arrested for drunk driving.

I'm not suggesting he be charged with intent to drive drunk, that's too hard to prove for it to be a crime.

You haven't answered y question yet.

The police have proven that it was not able to be operated when they tested it. What you want is proof that nothing changed between the time he was arrested and when the police tested it. That is a very difficult thing to prove. He might have proof the car was not operational, but most likely that proof is only his testimony that he could not start it, which is suspect in this case. The other form of proof he might have is if a shop had looked at it, but given that it was at home, I doubt he had taken it to a shop because I would expect it to still be there.

I am no sure which question you are referring to there have been a lot of posts in this topic.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

arguing probable cause is a red herring when the level of inquiry is reasonable suspicion.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/m013006.pdf

Reasonable suspicion as defined above "“something more than an inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or hunch. .
. . [as a] level of suspicion . . . considerable less than proof of wrongdoing by a
preponderance of the evidence. . . . [as a] . . . level of suspicion . . . obviously less demanding
than that for probable cause. . . [but a level of] suspicion supported by articulable facts that
criminal activity “may be afoot,” even if the officer lacks probable cause,” United States v.
Sokolow, 490 U.S. 1, 7 (1989);

It fails to meet this test as well.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

If you can articulate well enough there is probable cause for just about anything. And this situation s a ground ball. Someone sleeping in a car? "Your honor, It was about safety. I was concerned for his well being and wanted to check on him to make sure he was alright."

No that is not what probable cause means.

 

[OutHouse]

when i was stationed in North Dakota i had a troop who was a complete gear head and worked on a sprint car racing team for his hobby. his team won a race and when they got back to the garage had a celebration. my troop got really drunk and passed out in one of the cars parked in front of the garage. Some how a cop with the grand forks PD fund him and popped him with a DUI. the thing is the car he was sleeping DID NOT HAVE a engine!! but the keys were in the ignition.

 

[OutHouse]

This is just more proof that DWI Laws are about collecting money and not saving lives.

So this now means, if I am in my RV at a campground, I drink and fall asleep in one of the RV's beds...I can be arrested for DWI.

i have a 35 foot RV and i have never thought about that. uggg now im paranoid on our next camping trip.

 

[ElFenix]

It fails to meet this test as well.

if the officer says 'i saw him asleep in his car and it was cold out and the engine wasn't running so i checked up on him to make sure he was alright' the inquiry is done. no level of suspicion about crime is needed for public caretaker function. if, when performing the public caretaker function, the leo is given probable cause about a crime, the officer may then make an arrest.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
No, you prove beyond a reasonable doubt he was behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated. If his defense is that te car wasn't drivable or he never drove, the beer fairy gave him a ride, the burdenb is on him.

?? you dont know the laws you live under very well do you. ever hear of Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

 

[alphatarget1]

when i was stationed in North Dakota i had a troop who was a complete gear head and worked on a sprint car racing team for his hobby. his team won a race and when they got back to the garage had a celebration. my troop got really drunk and passed out in one of the cars parked in front of the garage. Some how a cop with the grand forks PD fund him and popped him with a DUI. the thing is the car he was sleeping DID NOT HAVE a engine!! but the keys were in the ignition.

Did he fight it? A car without an engine isn't really a "car"...

 

[OutHouse]

Did he fight it? A car without an engine isn't really a "car"...

the air force appointed him a attorney and fought it and won. the judge threw it out. it was a total waste of time and resources. the kid the right thing and still fricken got popped. Our Major called the police chief the following Monday morning and ripped him a new ass for the stupidity of the whole thing.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

if the officer says 'i saw him asleep in his car and it was cold out and the engine wasn't running so i checked up on him to make sure he was alright' the inquiry is done. no level of suspicion about crime is needed for public caretaker function. if, when performing the public caretaker function, the leo is given probable cause about a crime, the officer may then make an arrest.

Back to the beginning. There is no PC from finding someone sleeping. .

/Police State

 

[marincounty]

Now do you guys agree that we are living in a police state? I knew the name Alan Page rang a bell. It is the former NFL star, now on the Minnesota Supreme court? The court used twisted logic to justify this. Thought crime. Gun owners, be very concerned, because this slippery slope could easily be extended to drunk gun owners.
Of course, most people already knew this crap was possible, you need to hide your keys in the bushes if you are going to sleep it off. No more listening to the radio while you try to sleep it off, as I did when a young man.
And the cops are assholes for instigating the whole thing. I remember the days of peace officers, who would follow you home if they thought you could do so safely, and if really loaded, would give you a ride home. Now it's about law enforcement- and revenue generation.

 

[nobodyknows]

You know some bad people. They're wrong and they have bad morals and logic.

Ba,ba,ba,bad to the bone.

Junior Brown must have had you in mind whe he wrote this song:

I got a star on my car and one on my chest,
A gun on my hip and the right to arrest
I'm the guy who's the boss on this highway
So watch out what you're doin' when you're drivin' my way
If you break the law, you'll hear from me, I know
I'm a-workin' for the state, I'm The Highway Patrol

Well, you'll know me when you see me, 'cause my door's painted white,
My siren a-screamin' and my flashin' red lights
I work all day and I work all night
Just a-keepin' law and order, tryin' to do what's right
If I write you out a ticket, then you'd better drive slow
I'm just a-doin' my job, I'm The Highway Patrol

I'm the highway patrol, the highway patrol,
My hours are long, and my pay is low
But I'll do my best to keep you driving slow
I'm just a-doin' my job, I'm The Highway Patrol

If your drivin' to fast like you shouldn't do,
You can bet your boots, I'm comin' after you
If you wanna race then get on a race track,
'Cause if you try and run away I'm gonna bring ya back
I'm here to keep all the speeders driving slow
I'm just a-doin' my job, I'm The Highway Patrol

I'm the highway patrol, the highway patrol,
My hours are long, and my pay is low
But I'll do my best to keep you driving slow
I'm just a-doin' my job, I'm The Highway Patrol

I'm just a-doin' my job
I'm The Highway Patrol

 

[OutHouse]

Now do you guys agree that we are living in a police state? I knew the name Alan Page rang a bell. It is the former NFL star, now on the Minnesota Supreme court? The court used twisted logic to justify this. Thought crime. Gun owners, be very concerned, because this slippery slope could easily be extended to drunk gun owners.
Of course, most people already knew this crap was possible, you need to hide your keys in the bushes if you are going to sleep it off. No more listening to the radio while you try to sleep it off, as I did when a young man.
And the cops are assholes for instigating the whole thing. I remember the days of peace officers, who would follow you home if they thought you could do so safely, and if really loaded, would give you a ride home. Now it's about law enforcement- and revenue generation.

i disagree, cops dont do that stuff anymore becuase they could get their asses sued to oblivion. i blame the damn blood sucking lawyers out for a quick buck.

 

[dmcowen674]

So we can arrest and convict people because they might have committed a crime.

Awesome.

Minority Report is real in the U.S.

I know someone personally that was charged and found guilty and also was not driving the vehicle. In fact only went to the car to charge the phone to call someone. Of course could not prove that.

You are Guilty in the U.S. unless you can prove innocence or buy it.

 

[dmcowen674]

This is just more proof that DWI Laws are about collecting money and not saving lives.

So this now means, if I am in my RV at a campground, I drink and fall asleep in one of the RV's beds...I can be arrested for DWI.

Yes, pitch a tent and sleep in it until sober.

Of course then they can arrest you for public drunkenness then since you are outside.