Minimum wage helps poor people?

Nielsio

Member
Apr 11, 2010
27
0
0
Claim:
“It is exploitation to pay workers less than a certain amount of hourly wage. Raising their wages by law is fair and helps these workers.”


Analysis:

A firm calculates how much extra profit it makes with each individual worker. If a potential worker can add to the firm's overall profit, then he or she will be considered for hiring. No firm is looking for workers on which it continuously makes a loss.

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A minimum wage that is higher than a person's hourly productivity takes away the reason to hire them. A minimum wage hits the people with the lowest productivity first, and those are usually the people who need a job the most, and who desire on-the-job learning the most (to raise their productivity).


The reason why wages go up is because employers compete with each other for workers. If employer X offers a wage that isn't close to someone's productivity then employer Y still stands to profit by offering a higher wage.

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The difference between productivity and the real market wage is the signal that tells people with capital to create jobs. If the difference is very big, this means that many more jobs can be created profitably, and that many more people can be helped by the creation of those jobs.

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A minimum wage that is higher than the market priced wage diminishes the reason for firms (existing or new) to invest in that industry or place and create jobs. Capital is always scarce, and goes to the place where it is the most profitable.


Conclusion:

If wages are freely floating then the most jobs can be created, the people who need them the most can underprice others and secure a job, and by being able to work with low productivity someone can raise their productivity through experience and learning on the job and thereby be more sought after and have his wages bid up.

Minimum wage laws can help some workers temporarily, but only at the cost of others, particularly those who need a job more.


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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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According to some on this forum, it's the lack of minimum wage laws that keeps African countries poor. If they just said everyone had to be paid $50,000 a year, African countries would magically become rich.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
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The minimum wage is one of dumbest laws we have. It destroys jobs. It should be repealed.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Yeah $2.50 an hour jobs will really benefit the poor:\

Maybe some will get lucky and get the artificial $10.00/hr salary but the rest of the poor will be making $0. And $2.50 > 0. Of course with all the handouts people get there's not much incentive to work for $2.50 an hour.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
If your economic output does not justify even minimum wage, go back to school.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
If your economic output does not justify even minimum wage, go back to school.

What if you're in school? There's rampant teenage unemployment right now, especially with blacks teenagers. If employers could give jobs for 4.50, 5, 6, 7 dollars / hour we could have more jobs for these kids. Its better than nothing, helps keeps them out of trouble, and helps the economy.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
What if you're in school? There's rampant teenage unemployment right now, especially with blacks teenagers. If employers could give jobs for 4.50, 5, 6, 7 dollars / hour we could have more jobs for these kids. Its better than nothing, helps keeps them out of trouble, and helps the economy.

If you are in school, spend the time studying.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
What if you're in school? There's rampant teenage unemployment right now, especially with blacks teenagers. If employers could give jobs for 4.50, 5, 6, 7 dollars / hour we could have more jobs for these kids. Its better than nothing, helps keeps them out of trouble, and helps the economy.

That's true, also the idea that people have to generate a certain amount of labor per hour is ridiculous and getting more ridiculous as technology evolves. Imagine a stay-at-home mom who could get paid by answering one customer support call per hour. It would probably be worth it to her to get paid $5.00 an hour of being on standby. Most of the time she would be able to do other things.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
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If you are in school, spend the time studying.

Alright, so everyone should go to school and get a 50k+ job and not do anything until then.

So who's gonna bag groceries? Take our order at McDonalds? Stock the shelves at the hardware store? etc
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/01/along-the-minimum-wage-battle-front/

An important new study exploiting this opportunity will appear this month in The Review of Economics and Statistics. The economists Arindrajit Dube of the University of Massachusetts Amherst, T. William Lester of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and Michael Reich of the University of California, Berkeley, closely analyze employment trends for several categories of low-wage workers over a 16-year period in all counties sharing a common border with a county in another state where minimum wage increases followed a different trajectory.

They report that increases in minimum wages had no negative effects on low-wage employment and successfully increased the income of workers in food services and retail employment, as well as the narrower category of workers in restaurants.

The study successfully addresses a number of criticisms previously leveled at the case-study approach and points to flaws in all previous studies that have found negative employment effects.

https://udrive.oit.umass.edu/folbre/REST_a_00039-Dube_proof2.pdf

/thread
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Alright, so everyone should go to school and get a 50k+ job and not do anything until then.

So who's gonna bag groceries? Take our order at McDonalds? Stock the shelves at the hardware store? etc

$7.25x40x50 = $14500/year, not $50K.
Until you learn at least that, you should stay in school and study.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
$7.25x40x50 = $14500/year, not $50K.
Until you learn at least that, you should stay in school and study.

You misunderstood me. I suggested teenagers get part-time jobs for low-wages while they are in school. You suggested they should not do this and to study instead. So they should stay in school, have no jobs until they graduate, and then get their college degree job thats worth 40-50k or whatever.

But who is going to do those $14500 and less per year jobs?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
You misunderstood me. I suggested teenagers get part-time jobs for low-wages while they are in school. You suggested they should not do this and to study instead. So they should stay in school, have no jobs until they graduate, and then get their college degree job thats worth 40-50k or whatever.

But who is going to do those $14500 per years jobs?

People who don't get $40-50k , but are still worth employing for minimum wage.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Hmmmm.

I can pay someone in India with a masters degree less than minimum wage in America and they appreciate the job and don't act like an entitled brat.

Wonder where I am going to be creating jobs.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Hmmmm.

I can pay someone in India with a masters degree less than minimum wage in America and they appreciate the job and don't act like an entitled brat.

Wonder where I am going to be creating jobs.

Just a reminder that this is what conservatives want Americans to be: a third world country.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Hmmmm.

I can pay someone in India with a masters degree less than minimum wage in America and they appreciate the job and don't act like an entitled brat.

Wonder where I am going to be creating jobs.
Yeah, but then they won't be able to afford health insurance, according to your calculations and will have to work 4 jobs.

;)