Mini-Rant about Churches...

[Jzero]

<< you know, there are other possiblities besides a carnival like atmosphere and boring. see, this is what i'm talking about, people don't know how to enjoy things that aren't all shiny and crap. why not just enjoy your relationship with god? >>


Wow....did you guys really never realize that church could be fun and interesting?
You guys seem to have pigeonholed religion into "boring meditation."
You say

<< i've always thought that if you really believe in god, his presence should be exciting enough. >>


But if that presence was so exciting, why would you sit on your hands and bite your tongue? How can you stay quiet about something that excites you so much that you would willingly devote your life to it?
I'm not a huge fan of the "Carnival" atmosphere, but when I sit in a church and feel like I can't clap my hands or dance in the aisles because I'd be "out of line" I get annoyed. If you are busy proclaiming eternal life and all this other great stuff, how come you seem so depressed about it?



<< if there is a god (which i doubt) i bet he's pissed off cuz people are remodeling his house so that they want to go to it more often. >>


God forbid. Let's build a church that no one wants to go to....that makes sense....



<< What...going to a "holy" party is being religious? Um, you're full of it. >>


Why? Were the crowds singing "hosanna" to Jesus as he rode into town, who were very much "partying," being so irreligious? Religion is in your heart, not in your actions. If you don't believe, but you act somber and meditative, are you any less a fool that someone who doesn't believe but acts at clapping and dancing?

People have different ways of worshipping and expressing their excitement. It's hardly catering to the lowest common denominator. It's catering to different people with different ideas and thoughts.

 

[QueHuong]

<< Dude... keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't mean going to church. >>



Wow, start learning more about your faith here. At least for the catholic church, keeping the sabbath day means going to church every sunday. That's how the church interpreted that heavy book. If the protestant church is different, let me know. However, that friend I was talking about is catholic so that whole sabbath crap applies to her.


edited typos.

 

[her209]

I don't believe that you have to go to church to have a relationship with God.

 

[Jzero]

<< A friend of mine was telling me how she loves god blah blah blah. I pointed out that she never goes to church anymore despite her precious bible told her to keep the holy sabbath day. Apparently, she thinks god, if there is one, makes exceptions for her. >>


You know little of which you speak, as was already said, and you're definitely walking the line of crapping on what was otherwise a provocative and interesting thread.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< Wow, start learning more about your faith here. At least for the catholic church, keeping the sabbath day means going to church every sunday. That's how the church interpreted that heavy book. If the protestant church, let me know. However, that friend I was talking about is catholic so that whole sabbath crap applies to her. >>

Wow... since I don't believe much of the Catholic church's theology and used to be able to fundamentally break it to pieces, I think I'll ignore that comment.



<< I don't believe that you have to go to church to have a relationship with God >>

You don't. But to keep a healthy, ever-learning faith, meeting with and being accountable to other Christians is a necessity.

nik

 

[gopunk]

Wow....did you guys really never realize that church could be fun and interesting?
You guys seem to have pigeonholed religion into "boring meditation."

i'm not saying everybody should go and be monks and sisters or anything...

You say

<< i've always thought that if you really believe in god, his presence should be exciting enough. >>


But if that presence was so exciting, why would you sit on your hands and bite your tongue? How can you stay quiet about something that excites you so much that you would willingly devote your life to it?

well, i don't think that excitement has to always be expressed in the form of making noise and gestures.

I'm not a huge fan of the "Carnival" atmosphere, but when I sit in a church and feel like I can't clap my hands or dance in the aisles because I'd be "out of line" I get annoyed. If you are busy proclaiming eternal life and all this other great stuff, how come you seem so depressed about it?

who's depressed? you have to stand up and clap to be happy?

God forbid. Let's build a church that no one wants to go to....that makes sense....

no, instead we'll change *god's* house to fit our needs? people should go to church because of god, not because there is a daycare there and it feels like starbucks.

 

[Jzero]

<<

<< Dude... keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't mean going to church. >>



Wow, start learning more about your faith here. At least for the catholic church, keeping the sabbath day means going to church every sunday. That's how the church interpreted that heavy book. If the protestant church is different, let me know. However, that friend I was talking about is catholic so that whole sabbath crap applies to her.


edited typos. >>


Remind me what this has to do with the topic of charismatic v. quiet worship?

 

[QueHuong]

<< You know little of which you speak, as was already said. >>



Yes, thank you for not elaborating on why I "know little of which speak" (who talks like that anyway?), but only attacking my statement and hide behind vague arguments. That must be the christian way, or something.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< no, instead we'll change *god's* house to fit our needs? people should go to church because of god, not because there is a daycare there and it feels like starbucks. >>

You seem to think that God wants us to be boring. What... God can't want people to dance around? Oh yeah... God isn't a happy entity and wants people to suffer because he can't be happy...

nik

 

[gopunk]

dont' get me wrong, i'm all for parties and all that other good stuff. i just think the "megachurches" reflect a growing inability of people's inability to balance their lives between constant excitement and peaceful quietness.

 

[gopunk]

<<

<< no, instead we'll change *god's* house to fit our needs? people should go to church because of god, not because there is a daycare there and it feels like starbucks. >>

You seem to think that God wants us to be boring. What... God can't want people to dance around? Oh yeah... God isn't a happy entity and wants people to suffer because he can't be happy... >>



again, you miss the point. the point is that people mature to the point where they don't consider the absence of noise and dramatic gestures to be boring.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< dont' get me wrong, i'm all for parties and all that other good stuff. i just think the "megachurches" reflect a growing inability of people's inability to balance their lives between constant excitement and peaceful quietness. >>

Ever tought that people of a moderately young age group tend to live in major metropolises? And that old people, living out in the middle of nowhere, dying off, don't have too many around to actually attend the church?

That can be the case too -like it is in the miniature cities outside of where I live....

nik

 

[calbear2000]

Does anyone else find it ironic that its the atheists and non-Church-goers that are telling the Christians what kind of Church to attend?

I don't eat sushi but I really think the Japanese should eat it with forks and not chopsticks... if they know whats good for them.

 

[Dragnov]

I'm supposed to be Catholic, but one of the reasons I can't believe in it much or don't attend church anymore is because of that. I mean it's getting HUGE, they put in these major hall renovations and and new buildings but what ever happened to using that money for the needy? I mean its not small money either, its like $500,000 or something... sheesh. I can understand about making it more comfy and nicer, but its getting too extreme now.

 

[Jzero]

<< well, i don't think that excitement has to always be expressed in the form of making noise and gestures. >>


Precisely...people express themselves and their worship in different ways. Some prefer the quiet stillness. Some prefer a more lively atmosphere. Why should one be any less "holy" than the other?


<< who's depressed? you have to stand up and clap to be happy? >>


Exactly my point


<< no, instead we'll change *god's* house to fit our needs? people should go to church because of god, not because there is a daycare there and it feels like starbucks. >>


But are those the reason people show up at these churches?
The "church" is a completely mortal construction. God never said that churches had to be huge granite structures with gilt ceilings and stained glass windows. There was never any outright rules on how religion should be practiced.
Humorously, the quiet church in the beginning of the article is a Methodist church. Less than 200 years ago, the worship style of the Methodists was seen as radical and eccentric as we see these alliance churches today.

 

[QueHuong]

<< Wow... since I don't believe much of the Catholic church's theology and used to be able to fundamentally break it to pieces, I think I'll ignore that comment. >>


And how does that rambling show me the catholic church's interpretation of keeping the sabbath day is NOT going to church on sundays?





<< Remind me what this has to do with the topic of charismatic v. quiet worship? >>



How short is your attention span exactly? I was telling ffcobalt what I said above (sabbath means church on sundays); I wasn't talking about chrismatic worship vs. quiet.

 

[gopunk]

<< Does anyone else find it ironic that its the atheists and non-Church-goers that are telling the Christians what kind of Church to attend? >>



i'm not telling anybody what to do, i'm just voicing my opinion of it.

Ever tought that people of a moderately young age group tend to live in major metropolises?

that's exactly what i'm thinking about... their whole lives are noisy... and they still need more noisiness?

And that old people, living out in the middle of nowhere, dying off, don't have too many around to actually attend the church?

i was under the impression that these megachurches catered to a younger audience... i haven't heard of a bunch of old people forming them...

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

When I was a teen my family joined the largest southern Baptist church in the area. Prior to that I hadn't really been to church that much and when I did go it was to small ones in the community. Being green to religion I had a fresh insight to the congregation without letting my faith step in the way. What I noticed was that most of the people that I met there were rather snobbish and there to show the community who they were rather than being there for God. Obviously the wrong reasons entirely.

By the time I had gotten married I had quit going to that church entirely (quit going to any church with regularity for that matter). After some discussion my wife and I decided to find a home for us in a church... we went to several small ones while looking and were not satisfied with the lessons or other reasons. One Sunday we went to a growing southern baptist in the area to see what it was like. I was expecting the same lesson that I learned when I was a teen in that large church, but was pleasantly surprised to find something entirely different. Even though this was a large congregation, they hadn't lost the heart of what church is about in the first place. I felt at home even though I am still getting to know people. What I am saying is that not all of the large churches are bad. Sure, you have those who come across as the circus type... but all are not like that.

 

[Capn]

When the purpose of the church becomes entertainment and not a personal relationship with God, then you have a problem. That said, I don't think that happens in most cases. If you can make the service interesting and enjoyable why not do that?

Afaik there's nothing in the Bible that says praise must be a boring experience. Remember where the emphasis is supposed be though.

Psalm 98:4 Make a joyful noise to the LORD, all the earth; break forth into joyous song and sing praises!

Psalm 150:4 Praise him with timbrel and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!

 

[Jzero]

<< Yes, thank you for not elaborating on why I "know little of which speak" (who talks like that anyway?), but only attacking my statement and hide behind vague arguments. That must be the christian way, or something. >>


Actually, your lack of knowledge was already explained well enough for this thread in FFMCobalt's previous post.
I will decline to respond to your blather any further because I am tired of letting anti-religious trolls grind their axes in otherwise thoughtful threads. You come in and completely rip the thread off-topic just so you can push your personal agenda.
If you would like to create another thread on why Catholics believe they must go to church every week, then by all means do so, and perhaps I'll take you up on it.

Further, if you would like to know "who talks like that," it's people who actually have a grasp over the English language. Would you rather I said "You don't know what you're talking about." Does that make more sense to you?
GoPunk mentions catering to the lowest common denominator, and I have to dumb down my speech in the same thread.
heh.

 

[SpecialEd]

Good points Jzero.

Every Christian chooses to worship in a different way. Just because some christians chooses to celebrate Christ in huge Mutlimedia complexes doesn't make it less spiritual. It all relative. If you like the gothic peacefulness of an old chruch... they are plenty of those around. If you want excitement, well theres that too. Just because you don't like the way other people worship doesn't give you the right to condemn them so harshly.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< And how does that rambling show me the catholic church's interpretation of keeping the sabbath day is NOT going to church on sundays? >>

Good god. I'm not dictating what the Catholics believe as their theology. I'm saying that what they believe is wrong (on this topic).

You're just LOOKING for things to make me wrong aren't you?





<< I was telling ffcobalt what I said above (sabbath means church on sundays) >>

Show me where the Bible teaches it. Gimme a quick sermon on why keeping the sabbath day holy is the same as going to church on a religious basis...

nik

 

[QueHuong]

<< Actually, you're lack of knowledge was already explained well enough for this thread in FFMCobalt's previous post.
I will decline to respond to your blather any further because I am tired of letting anti-religious trolls grind their axes in otherwise thoughtful threads. You come in and completely rip the thread off-topic just so you can push your personal agenda. >>



For someone who types so much, you have surprisingly little to say. Really, show me my "lack of knowledge." Or are you going to continue to beat around the bush, telling me this and that, while not actually making a point in all that incoherent babbling?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< Good points Jzero.

Every Christian chooses to worship in a different way. Just because some christians chooses to celebrate Christ in huge Mutlimedia complexes doesn't make it less spiritual. It all relative. If you like the gothic peacefulness of an old chruch... they are plenty of those around. If you want excitement, well theres that too. Just because you don't like the way other people worship doesn't give you the right to condemn them so harshly. >>

WWWWWWWW00000000000OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

nik

 

[gopunk]

Precisely...people express themselves and their worship in different ways. Some prefer the quiet stillness. Some prefer a more lively atmosphere. Why should one be any less "holy" than the other?

if i ever implied that one was less holy than the other, i apologize... i got sidetracked. my point is that i think this reflects a trend in our society, where people have an increasing inability to enjoy a quieter, slower, way of doing things. i just think it is sad that this is causing the old churches to possibly close. that is all.