Mini-Rant about Churches...

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/62754_mega18.shtml

Inside the pink, century-old Queen Anne United Methodist Church, worship is a sparse, graying affair. Fifty is considered young here, and hip replacements and recent widows have been popular subjects for prayer requests.

On one typical Sunday, as the Rev. Rex Van Beek donned his white robe and began a sermon on human worth, he confronted not just sin and Scripture, but rows and rows of empty pews.

"I'm a sinner ... am I a worthy pastor?" he asked the scattered few. Cavernous silence greeted him, until a reedy, elderly voice piped up from the back: "We think you are."

A few Sundays later, 1,200 clapping, singing, swaying people filled the auditorium-sized Cedar Park Assembly of God in Bothell. Wearing a smart gray suit, the Rev. Joe Fuiten leaped to the microphone, surrounded by young couples, toddlers, bright-eyed teens, floodlights, two televisions, three video cameras and a nine-piece band.

"I know I'm looking at a bunch of failures today. Don't mean to be rude to ya. But hey! We're forgiven!" he told the crowd, popping a thumbs-up sign. A big-screen TV behind him flashed, "God wants you to talk!"

One fading, the other flourishing, the two churches illustrate a significant trend in modern Christianity. For decades, mainline Protestant churches have been losing millions of people nationwide, while "megachurches" -- usually large, suburban and evangelical -- have blossomed.



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i'm atheist so i don't know why i even care but i think it's really sad and stupid that the traditional churches are losing ground to these newfangled "megachurches". i *liked* the quiet sanctity of the old churches... i mean i'm not religious, but old churches just have a religious *feel* to it. i do *not* think that churches should strive to be like Starbucks or whatever. i thought the whole point of church was that it was a house of god and that you go there to get closer to him. if there is a god (which i doubt) i bet he's pissed off cuz people are remodeling his house so that they want to go to it more often. :frown:

btw, i do have my own selfish reasons for caring i guess... i just liked it better when they didn't care if you went to church or were religious or not. i swear, ever since these "megachurches" came up, my christian friends are like "you should come, it's FUN!" sorry, but i'm going to go to a church, it'll be because i want to talk to the big guy, not because i want to get my jollies.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
I'm completely with you on this one. Atlanta has about a billion churches and some of the newer ones I've seen constructed in the last 10 years or so (particularly Baptist churches) are so over the top it's not even funny. Some people seem to think that bigger and louder and grander spectacle is a good thing
rolleye.gif


Fausto
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,019
156
106
I guess it's understood that any post in YART is "IMHO". So...

I don't like megachurches. Any church over 400 members is too big and ought to spin off another separate church. I like knowing every member of our church. Knowing when they need help, knowing they will help me if I need it. A couple weeks ago a family was moving and asked for volunteers to help, and my parents were moving the same day and we needed some help loading the truck. I asked for 4 helpers, which we got, and told the rest who asked to help the other family. It turned out 40 people showed up at the other family's house to help them move. Would that happen in a megachurch? I doubt it. Everyone got the help they needed because we all know each other.

And while we were loading the truck, a dozen people from the church where my parents are moving to, were at their new house building a garage for them.

Some argue that the megachurch is just meeting the needs of those who attend; surely no one would attend a church they don't like. But what is the church doing for them? Is there any spirituality there? Or is a way to justify saying "I go to church" while being entertained by a free floor show?

I don't claim that there is "one right way" to worship, but I'm not convinced that turning a church service into a hour-long variety show is evidence of a spiritual endeavor. The statement "You should come, it's FUN" points that out.
 

SpecialEd

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,110
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0
Not that I would go to something like that... however I don't see anything wrong with it. If people like it and it doesn't harm anyone... it can't be a bad thing. The church evolves, just like everything else. if you don't like it, don't go.
 

killface

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2001
1,416
0
0
I'm totally with you on this one too (even though I haven't been to church in years). Churches should be about the community getting together and NOT going to some huge, typically televised mass. I went to one of these once and it seemed more like going to some sort of show or play than attending a religous ceremony.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
i completely agree, kranky.

however I don't see anything wrong with it. If people like it and it doesn't harm anyone... it can't be a bad thing.

i see something wrong with it in that it represents our society's inability to respond to anything that isn't in your face. and i think it does harm society. maybe not in any concrete way like people get killed or anything, but i think it sort of dumbs down people. if people have trouble focusing in a normal church, they should work on strengthening their ability to connect with god, or whatever it is they think they're doing. i'm against the notion of changing everything to cater to the lowest common denominator. people need to improve themselves, not degrade the rest of society, dammit.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<< People just go to church to be entertained... >>

What... church is supposed to be boring and somber? Um, no.



<< it'll be because i want to talk to the big guy, not because i want to get my jollies >>

And you think there has to be a difference? Um, no.

nik
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0


<<

<< People just go to church to be entertained... >>

What... church is supposed to be boring and somber? Um, no.
>>



you know, there are other possiblities besides a carnival like atmosphere and boring. see, this is what i'm talking about, people don't know how to enjoy things that aren't all shiny and crap. why not just enjoy your relationship with god?
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<< you know, there are other possiblities besides a carnival like atmosphere and boring. see, this is what i'm talking about, people don't know how to enjoy things that aren't all shiny and crap. why not just enjoy your relationship with god? >>

But why require that to be somber and boring?

nik
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0


<< What... church is supposed to be boring and somber? Um, no. >>



What...going to a "holy" party is being religious? Um, you're full of it.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0


<<

<< you know, there are other possiblities besides a carnival like atmosphere and boring. see, this is what i'm talking about, people don't know how to enjoy things that aren't all shiny and crap. why not just enjoy your relationship with god? >>

But why require that to be somber and boring?
>>



somber and boring are subjective terms. i think if people find normal church to be somber and boring, perhaps they need to re-examine their faith. then again, what do i know, i'm atheist, and all i have are idealized notions of faith. i've always thought that if you really believe in god, his presence should be exciting enough.
 

AmdInside

Golden Member
Jan 22, 2002
1,355
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This is a problem my gf and I are dealing with right now. I go to churches more for the sermons. My gf wants one that has good worship (lively audience with good songs). She wants one that appeals towards college people. So we are finding it hard to find a middle ground. Churches are either to conservative for her or to liberal for me.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
Organized religion, namely church attendence here, is part entertainment. Socializing, singing hymns, dinners and the like are a big part of how churches gain...worshippers. But it shouldn't be the largest part.

These "kicked up" churches seem to blur the line between spirit and entertainment. It's bound to rub some the wrong way. But it may come down to "kicked up" churches or none at all.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<< This is a problem my gf and I are dealing with right now. I go to churches more for the sermons. My gf wants one that has good worship (lively audience with good songs). She wants one that appeals towards college people. So we are finding it hard to find a middle ground. Churches are either to conservative for her or to liberal for me. >>

If you go solely for the sermons, you're going to miss out. Part of your relationship is worship. If you're bent on the apologetics of it all, you should know that seeing as Christ teaches it :)

nik
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<<

<< What... church is supposed to be boring and somber? Um, no. >>



What...going to a "holy" party is being religious? Um, you're full of it.
>>

You missed my point.

nik
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0


<< somber and boring are subjective terms. i think if people find normal church to be somber and boring, perhaps they need to re-examine their faith. >>



Totally agree.

A friend of mine was telling me how she loves god blah blah blah. I pointed out that she never goes to church anymore despite her precious bible told her to keep the holy sabbath day. Apparently, she thinks god, if there is one, makes exceptions for her.
 

JohnnyReb

Banned
Feb 20, 2002
212
0
0
It is worth mentioning at this point that the only old, large, denomination that is growing in the US is the Southern Baptist Convention. This largely as a result of their recommitment to the Scriptures and modernizing of worship services. You will find many SBC churches practice what is called blended worship, where solid Bible-based preaching is combined with lively worship and praise.

John
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<<

<< somber and boring are subjective terms. i think if people find normal church to be somber and boring, perhaps they need to re-examine their faith. >>



Totally agree.

A friend of mine was telling me how she loves god blah blah blah. I pointed out that she never goes to church anymore despite her precious bible told her to keep the holy sabbath day. Apparently, she thinks god, if there is one, makes exceptions for her.
>>

Dude... keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't mean going to church.
rolleye.gif
It means keeping it holy. Not forsaking the the gathering of the saints says to go to atleast be some sort of active member in a church or christian group.

nik
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0


<< <<What...going to a "holy" party is being religious? Um, you're full of it. >>

You missed my point.
>>



You had one? Please, show me.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<< You will find many SBC churches practice what is called blended worship, where solid Bible-based preaching is combined with lively worship and praise. >>

That's the kind of church I go to, but it ain't SBC :)

nik
 

Kenazo

Lifer
Sep 15, 2000
10,429
1
81
I think church leaders are just doing what they feel they have to. Church attendence has been slipping drastically for the last 50 years and so a 'reinvention' of what church is needed to occur thus yielding the megachurch. There is no getting around the fact that it's working in so far as bringing members in. Is it right? i dunno. does it work? for sure.
 

calbear2000

Golden Member
Oct 17, 2001
1,027
0
0


<<

<< you know, there are other possiblities besides a carnival like atmosphere and boring. see, this is what i'm talking about, people don't know how to enjoy things that aren't all shiny and crap. why not just enjoy your relationship with god? >>

But why require that to be somber and boring?

nik
>>

 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<<

<< <<What...going to a "holy" party is being religious? Um, you're full of it. >>

You missed my point.
>>



You had one? Please, show me.
>>

When you change your attitude, I might :) j/k I was saying that if you go to a church, you can't expect it to be either "holy" or "fun" and not both.

nik