Mini-ITX/SFF wish list

[cbn]

19.) Slim ATX case with Riser, possibly with the optical drive removed if it meant the enclosure could be much more compact.

This arrangement should allow us to add at least two cards for installations involving typical ATX motherboards. One low profile card in the slot nearest the I/O shield and one full width dual slot video card (using a riser with the PCI-E x16 slot in the second expansion bay position)

With that mentioned, consideration would have to be made for Micro ATX boards that have their PCI-E x16 slots in the first expansion bay position (Most, if not all, ATX boards have their first PCI-E x16 slot in the second expansion bay position). (See picture below for an example of typical PCI-E x16 slot positioning differences between ATX and Micro ATX)

(ATX motherboard with PCI-E x1 in 1st expansion bay position and PCI-E x16 slot in the 2nd expansion bay position)

(Micro ATX with PCI-E x16 slot in the 1st expansion bay position)

With that mentioned, PCI-E x16 slot positioning differences between ATX and uATX could be handled with the appropriate extension added to the riser (example of an extension shown below):

 

[cbn]

If the Slim ATX (with riser) enclosure I described in the above post (#51) could be a sized similar to Silverstone RVZ01 (14.9" h x 4.1" w x 13.6" d):

Or Alienware X51 (13.5" h x 3.74" w x 12.52" d):

Then so much the better. (Maybe removing the optical drive will be enough to make this possible)

 

[cbn]

Flat mITX cases which are extra wide, with a PCIe riser so you can have a double slot graphics card without significantly increasing overall case volume.

Here is a new one from Lian Li, the PC-Q19:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lian-li-pc-q19,27530.html

All Aluminum design

Max Video card length is 22cm

CPU coolers up to 85 mm tall

three 2.5" drives and a single 3.5" drive

SFX PSU

 

[cbn]

2. Higher than 450 watt SFX PSUs. (designed for 92mm fan, if that helps).

Corsair released a 600 watt SFX PSU with 92mm fan:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/corsair-sf600-sfx-psu,29317.html

I can't wait to see the reviews on this one.

 

[Valantar]

Corsair released a 600 watt SFX PSU with 92mm fan:

I can't wait to see the reviews on this one.

You've seen the Silverstone SX500-LG 500W "SFX-L" with a 120mm fan? Expanding the depth of the SFX form factor to fit a larger fan (and eventually, higher wattages) seems like a no-brainer. Although Corsair/High Power deserves credit for squeezing 600W+a 92mm fan into a standard SFX - Silverstone's own 600W SFX only has an 80mm fan after all.

My wish:

-More high-efficiency PSUs at low wattages. ~300W Platinum/Titanium? Yes please. Even 400W at >Gold would be great.

 

[cbn]

You've seen the Silverstone SX500-LG 500W "SFX-L" with a 120mm fan? Expanding the depth of the SFX form factor to fit a larger fan (and eventually, higher wattages) seems like a no-brainer.

The only problem with SFX-L is that it won't fit in all cases designed for SFX PSU.

I do think it would be awesome though if we could get an adapter plate made so a SFX-L PSU and 3.5" HDD could fit in the same spot as a ATX PSU:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36558841&postcount=35

P.S. Here is what the existing SFX to ATX bracket looks like:

 

[Blue_Max]

I'd love to see more low-profile cards! I don't think it'd be hard to make the GTX 960 a low-profile wonder!

The alternative might be making MXM laptop modules way more available to the public and have all the more SFF systems that can use them!

 

[Valantar]

I'd love to see more low-profile cards! I don't think it'd be hard to make the GTX 960 a low-profile wonder!

The alternative might be making MXM laptop modules way more available to the public and have all the more SFF systems that can use them!

I doubt that will happen, just because of the cost of developing a low profile cooler capable of effectively cooling a >100W card. Not that it's not possible, it would just require significant R&D, which I doubt anyone is willing to put into such a niche product. Most low profile cards get tacked-on, cheap open air cooling solutions, which won't work for that kind of wattage in an enclosed space.

MXM modules could work, given that someone develops a standard for cooling these too.

 

[Valantar]

I do think it would be awesome though if we could get an adapter plate made so a SFX-L PSU and 3.5" HDD could fit in the same spot as a ATX PSU:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36558841&postcount=35

That would be sweet. The HDD might be a bit starved for air (I think "providing air flow for the HDD with the PSU intake fan" as stated in the linked post is a godawful idea, effectively blocking the PSU intake), but with a metal case close by/touching, that shouldn't be a problem. HDDs like to be a bit toasty anyhow.

 

[Blue_Max]

I doubt that will happen, just because of the cost of developing a low profile cooler capable of effectively cooling a >100W card. Not that it's not possible, it would just require significant R&D, which I doubt anyone is willing to put into such a niche product. Most low profile cards get tacked-on, cheap open air cooling solutions, which won't work for that kind of wattage in an enclosed space.

MXM modules could work, given that someone develops a standard for cooling these too.

MXM modules all comply with a layout design, plug and size. I don't think it'd be that hard to also create a standard for SFF machines to sandwich on a cooler. The MXM boards already have standard mounting holes for a cooling solution - a liquid cooler attached to that would easily do the trick!

 

[cbn]

That would be sweet. The HDD might be a bit starved for air (I think "providing air flow for the HDD with the PSU intake fan" as stated in the linked post is a godawful idea, effectively blocking the PSU intake), but with a metal case close by/touching, that shouldn't be a problem. HDDs like to be a bit toasty anyhow.

Another option would be to have the 3.5" HDD mounted on the side of the SFX-L PSU opposite the fan. Then with an adapter (like the following) it could also be used for dual 2.5".

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994162

Or alternatively the SFX to ATX adapter plate/bracket could be made to work natively with one or more 2.5" drives (in addition to either a SFX-L or SFX PSU).

 

[Valantar]

Another option would be to have the 3.5" HDD mounted on the side of the SFX-L PSU opposite the fan. Then with an adapter (like the following) it could also be used for dual 2.5".

Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry for the vague language. HDD on the top/back of the PSU would definitely be the way to go. And yeah, given that 3.5" to 2x2.5" brackets are quite readily available, that would be a shoo-in.

Or alternatively the SFX to ATX adapter plate/bracket could be made to work natively with one or more 2.5" drives (in addition to either a SFX-L or SFX PSU).

The sad thing is, an ATX to SFX+ 3.5" HDD adapter plate would be ridiculously easy to make, you could make it from a single steel plate with the right cuts and bends. I literally sketched one out (not to scale, of course) in five minutes. Actually making this should be a piece of cake. If anyone from any case/accessory makers are listening, feel free to steal my design. Just make this thing already.

Heck, for true space savings, you could fit a 2.5" drive on each side of the SFX PSU as well (there's a 25mm width difference between ATX and SFX, plenty for two 9mm drives + mounts). A PSU and either 2x2.5" + 1x3.5" drives or 4x2.5" drives in the space of an ATX PSU? Yes please.

 

[Valantar]

Oh, another wish by the way: "extended" mITX boards with another PCIe x16 slot next to the first one, along with a case with extender cables for both slots and mounts for two dual-slot GPUs. With that and a 600W SFX PSU (plus some clever case design), you could run two GTX 970s in SLI in a case not much larger than an Xbox One.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Oh, another wish by the way: "extended" mITX boards with another PCIe x16 slot next to the first one, along with a case with extender cables for both slots and mounts for two dual-slot GPUs. With that and a 600W SFX PSU (plus some clever case design), you could run two GTX 970s in SLI in a case not much larger than an Xbox One.

So... basically slim mATX with risers for horizontally mounted GPUs?

 

[Valantar]

So... basically slim mATX with risers for horizontally mounted GPUs?

Not really - the two extra slots (compared to this - ITX has one, mATX has four) on a mATX board would take up quite a lot of unnecessary space. And given that everything you need can otherwise fit on an ITX motherboard (including 8 SATA ports(!), SATAe and m.2 on one of the boards ASrock showed off at Computex), any need to go mATX - or even ATX 99% of the time - would be removed with a board like this. Not to mention that boards extended this way would fit in most current mITX cases that support dual slot GPUs.

 

[cbn]

Not to mention that boards extended this way would fit in most current mITX cases that support dual slot GPUs.

Yep, another name for that is Mini-DTX and Silverstone Sugo SG05 (as an example of a dual slot video card Mini-ITX case) supports that form factor.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Not really - the two extra slots (compared to this - ITX has one, mATX has four) on a mATX board would take up quite a lot of unnecessary space. And given that everything you need can otherwise fit on an ITX motherboard (including 8 SATA ports(!), SATAe and m.2 on one of the boards ASrock showed off at Computex), any need to go mATX - or even ATX 99% of the time - would be removed with a board like this. Not to mention that boards extended this way would fit in most current mITX cases that support dual slot GPUs.

So, DTX.

But since the GPUs are dual-slot, you'd need four slots worth of card space in the case, and 3-4 on the motherboard, anyway.

So, mATX.

Unless you used risers and mounted them horizontally instead, over the motherboard.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yep, another name for that is Mini-DTX and Silverstone Sugo SG05 (as an example of a dual slot video card Mini-ITX case) supports that form factor.

SG05 won't support SLI cards though.

...two dual-slot GPUs. With that and a 600W SFX PSU (plus some clever case design), you could run two GTX 970s in SLI in a case not much larger than an Xbox One

That means four slots worth of space south of the CPU/HSF area.

So, mATX.

 

[Valantar]

So, DTX.

But since the GPUs are dual-slot, you'd need four slots worth of card space in the case, and 3-4 on the motherboard, anyway.

So, mATX.

Unless you used risers and mounted them horizontally instead, over the motherboard.

Which is exactly what I described. Thank you for reading.

 

[Valantar]

SG05 won't support SLI cards though.



That means four slots worth of space south of the CPU/HSF area.

So, mATX.

No. Two dual slot cards laid sideways (relative to the motherboard) are roughly as tall as a decent CPU heatsink. Thus, all you would need is two PCIe x16 slots, extender cables for these, and a case allowing for this. It would take far less space than a mATX layout, as mATX forces the GPUs to stack on top of the motherboard, creating a thicker chassis.

 

[Blue_Max]

Which is exactly what I described. Thank you for reading.

Well, snarky - either way it means a box mATX in size just to house two itx-970's and the 600W mini-sized supply is going to really struggle.

Surely if you're considering a little portable cube in the first place, a single GTX 970 is enough for single-monitor gaming wherever you plan to take it?

If it's not going anywhere, build a smexy tower.

There are some mATX cases that are still amazingly small and give you the two PCIe16 slots you'll need for SLI in the first place.

 

[Valantar]

Well, snarky - either way it means a box mATX in size just to house two itx-970's and the 600W mini-sized supply is going to really struggle.

Surely if you're considering a little portable cube in the first place, a single GTX 970 is enough for single-monitor gaming wherever you plan to take it?

If it's not going anywhere, build a smexy tower.

There are some mATX cases that are still amazingly small and give you the two PCIe16 slots you'll need for SLI in the first place.

True, some mATX cases are amazingly small. I don't totally agree that a 600W PSU will struggle with SLI 970s, though - even though they peak around 250W per card, that is for 1-2ms, and with each card rendering separate frames those loads won't stack. And sustained average loads for 970s in SLI are below 500W, not to mention 600. A good 600W unit should handle any spikes easily.

And as I said, with my proposed layout, you could get a mDTX board (20cm width) + 2 GPUs in SLI (let's say 14cm for those, most graphics cards with custom coolers seem to be slightly above 5" tall) in a package not much wider than the Xbox One's 34cm width. A couple of cm for case walls, cables and such. It would be a bit taller, of course, given the two stacked graphics cards, but not that much - the Xbone is 8.5cm, and given sufficient vents I'd think you could get this into a 10cm tall chassis. The total size would be bigger when you have to fit a PSU and some kind of storage in there, but it'd still be an amazing amount of power in a tiny, tiny box. This is, of course, just a thought experiment. Still, it could be done, and it would be smaller than any mATX case.

 

[Blue_Max]

ITX & DTX only have a single PCIe16 slot... how are you converting this into two for SLI? A riser card/ribbon making it 8x/8x?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

No. Two dual slot cards laid sideways (relative to the motherboard) are roughly as tall as a decent CPU heatsink. Thus, all you would need is two PCIe x16 slots, extender cables for these, and a case allowing for this. It would take far less space than a mATX layout, as mATX forces the GPUs to stack on top of the motherboard, creating a thicker chassis.

A dual slot PCI card is about half as wide as it is tall (assuming you leave any room at all for airflow.) Take two and turn them sideways with a riser card, it's still about the same height/width.

I suppose if you raised them high enough, extended them over the motherboard instead of "south" away from the CPU, and used a low profile CPU cooler you'd end up with an ITX-sized cube. That could be cool. But OCing might be a problem. And you'd suddenly have a use for a 600w PicoPSU.

 

[Valantar]

ITX & DTX only have a single PCIe16 slot... how are you converting this into two for SLI? A riser card/ribbon making it 8x/8x?

That's purely up to the OEM, no? I don't know of any technical reason why they couldn't fit two x16 slots on a mDTX board, as long as the CPU provides sufficient PCIe lanes.

And we are after all posting in a wishlist thread. Verging on the unrealistic should be what we do here, no?