Mini ITX DIY vs. Pre-built SFF: Is it worth it for an everyday computer?

[Throckmorton]

FYI I just measured the PSU in the Dell 660s and it's not TFX. The width and positions of two screw holes match but the height is only 55mm instead of 65mm.

I'd say that's a count against Dell pre built!

 

[piasabird]

Dell has always kind of underpowered their power supplies. For a low-end use with no video card that works well. A PC should really be sized and powered based on what it is used for. I think most SFX computers are not really intended for high end or even moderate gaming use.

I work in IT at a community college and we order a lot of computers in the last 15 years like IBM, Vostro, DELL. Large orders like we order have to purchased way ahead of time and be on a set replacement cycle. Typically we use a 3 year replacement cycle and in some places when we purchase computer they cascade the computers to lower-end users like an instructor or a public general use computer. We dont waste much. My office computer is an i5.

Typically I have a few different application open at once like Outlook E-mail, Database, Scanner, Image Database, Internet, etc. So computers are usually sourced for more power than an i-3. Typically we purchase the i-5 because it comes with more storage and more memory as a standard item. When purchasing Retail buy everything up front. As seen with the power supply issue it is not a good idea to try to add things later. Plus that would violate your warranty.

I hate to say this but the last computer I purchased I use a full-size standard ATX case and motherboard simply becuase smaller was more expensive. Things like computer cases seem to be coming down in price a bit. Still I think if a computer case is 1/10 the size, how come it still costs like $75-$99. If it takes less materials to build it should cost less. It is probably just economy of scale. You dont really need a box 3 feet high just to make a comptuer for e-mail and a few kitty cat videos. Seems like most computers are all land fill material eventually.

 

[Wreckem]

Dell has always kind of underpowered their power supplies. For a low-end use with no video card that works well. A PC should really be sized and powered based on what it is used for. I think most SFX computers are not really intended for high end or even moderate gaming use.

I work in IT at a community college and we order a lot of computers in the last 15 years like IBM, Vostro, DELL. Large orders like we order have to purchased way ahead of time and be on a set replacement cycle. Typically we use a 3 year replacement cycle and in some places when we purchase computer they cascade the computers to lower-end users like an instructor or a public general use computer. We dont waste much. My office computer is an i5.

Typically I have a few different application open at once like Outlook E-mail, Database, Scanner, Image Database, Internet, etc. So computers are usually sourced for more power than an i-3. Typically we purchase the i-5 because it comes with more storage and more memory as a standard item. When purchasing Retail buy everything up front. As seen with the power supply issue it is not a good idea to try to add things later. Plus that would violate your warranty.

I hate to say this but the last computer I purchased I use a full-size standard ATX case and motherboard simply becuase smaller was more expensive. Things like computer cases seem to be coming down in price a bit. Still I think if a computer case is 1/10 the size, how come it still costs like $75-$99. If it takes less materials to build it should cost less. It is probably just economy of scale. You dont really need a box 3 feet high just to make a comptuer for e-mail and a few kitty cat videos. Seems like most computers are all land fill material eventually.

Most of the price of a case are the design costs, not material(unless its those gigantic ATX cases). And yes its also partly because of economy of scale because the mitx market is small.

And yes, most pre-built SFF machines aren't meant for highend gaming. And any DIY below 10 liters in volume isn't either unless you have something setup similar to the Tiki.

My next SFF I am builidng this fall/xmas will be ~$3000(highend video card and 3 SSDs being the bulk of that) but its for more than just day to day computing. But you can make a dirt cheap sff these days.

 

[cbn]

CPU/mainboad:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128585

(GIGABYTE GA-C847N-D Intel Celeron 847 1.1GHz Intel NM70 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo, $49.99 after $20 rebate, free shipping, 3 years parts and labor warranty)

Another Celeron 847 build Option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

(BIOSTAR NM70I-847 Intel Celeron 847 1.1GHz 2C/2T BGA1023 Intel NM70 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo, 89.99 with free shipping, comes with free 8 GB (2 x 4GB) Crucial ballistic Sport DDR3 1600 low profile kit, 3 year parts and labor warranty)

Example: Assuming the buyer didn't need 8 GB, selling the the bundled memory kit -->http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148662 ) for a net $50 would result in a final price of $39.99 for the mainboard/cpu. Selling the kit for a net $55 would result in a final price of $34.99 for the mainboard/cpu.....etc. etc. etc.

That is pretty cheap for a modern Sandy Bridge CPU and mainboard combo.

 

[cbn]

FYI for anyone that wants a similar case/PSU, Newegg has one of the Apex versions for $40 shipped right now.

If anyone missed the above deal, here is a new one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._email_1p_0_ti

Another great deal:

http://www.frys.com/product/6170419 (Antec ISK 300-150, $49)

 

[piasabird]

Directorn has some Mini-ITX Systems of various types:
Just for comparison. Sometimes I buy stuff here.

http://www.directron.com/miniitxsys.html
They also sell some of those smaller sfx/flex/tfx/KDM power supplies. Never know when one is going to give up.

 

[Zap]

Another great deal:

http://www.frys.com/product/6170419 (Antec ISK 300-150, $49)

That is smoking hot! Too bad... don't need a 3rd one...

 

[Lonyo]

Dell has always kind of underpowered their power supplies. For a low-end use with no video card that works well. A PC should really be sized and powered based on what it is used for. I think most SFX computers are not really intended for high end or even moderate gaming use.

A 220w PSU on that system is NOT underpowered in the slightest.

You can run a GTX650Ti with Intel i5-3470 on a 220w PSU, specifically this one:
http://www.fspgroupusa.com/fsp22060le80/p/486.html
Which has even fewer amps on the 12v rail than the Dell PSU.

I know this because I've done it.

 

[cbn]

Another Prebuilt SFF Computer: The Lenovo H520s.

While I couldn't find a Lenovo H520s spec'd with a Single Core G465 processor and 2GB (like the Dell 660s I posted earlier in the thread), I was able to find and compare Pentium G2030 Dual core versions of these computers.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883265538 (Lenovo H520s with Intel Pentium G2030, $339.99 with Free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883155726 (Dell Inspiron 660s with Intel Pentium G2030. $359.99 with free shipping)

Notice the Lenovo H520s is price competitive (actually $20 cheaper) than the Pentium G2030 Dell 660s equivalent while having a larger hard drive (1 TB vs 500GB):

Now lets move to some pictures:

With the left side panel removed we can see the micro-ATX motherboard mounted above a 180 watt TFX Power Supply turned on its side (the PSU intake fan is facing inboard, drawing in air from a narrow empty space within the case.) (NOTE: I was able to confirm the motherboard and PSU form factor were standardized parts using the Lenovo manual. See page 51--> http://download.lenovo.com/consumer...520s_hmm_20120627.pdf#page=51&zoom=auto,0,734 and page 54, http://download.lenovo.com/consumer...520s_hmm_20120627.pdf#page=54&zoom=auto,0,560 for details.)

Notice the PCI-E x16 slot is positioned a short distance above the PSU around the middle of the case. This, in contrast, to the Dell Inspiron 660s where the PCI-E x 16 slot is positioned at the top of the case underneath a ventilation hole.

Not seen in the above picture is the case intake fan located underneath the front bezel. (see page 43 of Lenovo manual ---> http://download.lenovo.com/consumer...520s_hmm_20120627.pdf#page=43&zoom=auto,0,761 )

Above, we can see the front and back of the case. On the front, there is an optical drive door as well as the microphone and headphone jacks, 7-1 card reader and two usb 2.0.

On the rear, there are some vent holes next to the PSU. Above that, two expansion slots (as well as some extra ventilation next to the motherboard I/O shield.) NOTE: This H61 chipset computer, unlike the B75 Dell Inspiron 660s, does not come with usb 3.0 ports on the motherboard I/O. (Although as can be seen in the Lenovo sample picture usb 3.0 can be added via expansion card.)

Lenovo H520s does not have ventilation holes on the top. (unlike Dell Inspiron 660s).

Left side panel view. Notice ventilation holes for both CPU and Add-in-board.

Right side panel view (Ventilation holes under drive bay.)

Overall, (from this high level view) this machine looks pretty nice to me.

Some Pros: (compared to Dell Inspiron 660s)

1. Motherboard supports up to 95 watt CPUs. (Dell 660s is 65 watt CPU max)
2. Has intake fan. (Dell 660s has no case fans.)
3. Larger Hard drive (1 TB vs the Dell's 500 GB)
4. Confirmed industry standard motherboard and PSU form factor.
5. One more SATA port (3 vs. 2)

Some Cons: (compared to Dell Inspiron 660s)

1. Does not come with USB 3.0 stock
2. PSU on Lenovo dual core models is 180 watt (This compared to 220 watt unit of the Dell 660s).

 

[cbn]

Some update information on the Lenovo H530s (the Haswell version of the H520s shown above in post #34):

Major difference, other than the Processor, is the H81 chipset which provides two usb 3.0 ports on the back in addition to the four usb 2.0 ports the H520s had on the rear I/O. This fixes a weakness the H520s had against the Dell Inspiron 660s.

Looking through Lenovo online documentation on page 25 of this PDF---> http://download.lenovo.com/consumer/desktop_pub/ideacentre_h530s_hmm_20130807.pdf (It still has the 3 SATA ports of the H520s. Actually, to be more clear, the H520s had 3 SATA ports and an unused 1eSATA port. The eSATA port now being dropped on the H530s)

Overall, I'd have to say this is my favorite Pre-built SFF so far just looking at the specs on the surface. The ability of the H530s (and H520s) to mount a dual slot low profile video like the one below is a nice option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150682

I'd imagine the above dual slot video card design is much more efficient at evacuating heat from a cramped SFF Pre-built like the H530s/H520s (which has no exhaust fan) compared to a single slot design.

Maybe the only "weakness" remaining (vs. Dell Inspiron 660s) is the fact the Lenovo H530s still comes with 180 watt PSU on the dual core models (according to page 45 of the Lenovo H530s manual---> http://download.lenovo.com/consumer/desktop_pub/ideacentre_h530s_hmm_20130807.pdf these will either by Huntkey HK28071FP
180w or Liteon PS318102 VG 180w ) compared to the 220 watt PSU found in the Dell.

P.S. I haven't scoped all the deals on this model yet, but recently it was advertised at Fry's for $268 with Pentium G3220 (3Gz), 4GB RAM and 1TB HDD---> http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com...-with-Intel-Pentium-Dual-Core-G3220-Processor