Milwaukee M12 non-Fuel quick review

[mindless1]

^ Depends on which tier you're comparing from each brand. Dewalt's low end isn't as good as Ryobi's high end, but is better than Ryobi's low end, and Dewalt's high end is better than Ryobi's high end too.

Suppose you pay about $100 for a kit with drill, battery and charger from either brand, then you'll get about the same quality from either, though Dewalt still charges >30% more for their batteries so by the time you get extra batteries, makes little sense to get Dewalt (or Milwaukee, any contractor brand really) unless either starting out with their higher end tools, or are already invested in that platform, otherwise you end up paying a premium for more batteries and have nothing much to show for it.

I suppose you could get generic chinese batteries but meh, I'd rather have the most runtime that a given size and weight pack can provide which is usually worse with generics.

 

[Greenman]

Good tools are actually pretty cheap. Top tier tools are stupid expensive, and generally a poor value for anything but the most demanding use. Though Festool has made my don't buy list as their utility and durability doesn't justify the premium they charge.
Cordless tools require that you buy into an ecosystem, as having three or four different battery types just doesn't make sense. Any of the top brands are going to do the job well, and for consumer use, Ryobi is pretty hard to beat. I have three or four Ryobi tools that I picked up along the way, usually because I needed something right now for what I thought was just a few uses. I haven't been disappointed.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I picked up an M12 Fuel Stubby 1/2" drive impact and it's a beast. It can remove every bolt, nut, and lug on my car with no effort (except axle nuts). Subframe bolts? Come right out. Suspension bolts? Doesn't even have to try.

Milwaukee makes a few gems like that. No one else makes an impact that small and lightweight that can pull 99% of fasteners on a passenger car.

All it takes is an anchor tool like that, with no real competition, and you're sucked into their ecosystem.

 

[Captante]

^ Depends on which tier you're comparing from each brand. Dewalt's low end isn't as good as Ryobi's high end, but is better than Ryobi's low end, and Dewalt's high end is better than Ryobi's high end too.

Very true ... makes sense too since its likely they're all made in the same dang Chinese factory (or at least with many of the same parts) just using different colors of plastic and thicker/thinner wire.

Actual brand-names barely exist now in any meaningful way its just price & color tiers.

I don't buy based only on brand since it seems like build quality varies from device to device even within brands and I try not to buy products that "lock you in" with stuff like proprietary batteries. (sometimes there's no choice)

 

[Greenman]

Very true ... makes sense too since its likely they're all made in the same dang Chinese factory (or at least with many of the same parts) just using different colors of plastic and thicker/thinner wire.

Actual brand-names barely exist now in any meaningful way its just price & color tiers.

I don't buy based only on brand since it seems like build quality varies from device to device even within brands and I try not to buy products that "lock you in" with stuff like proprietary batteries. (sometimes there's no choice)

Every tool manufacturer that I know of uses proprietary battery designs.

 

[Captante]

Every tool manufacturer that I know of uses proprietary battery designs.

Yeah poor choice of words sorry... just go with the "locked in part.

Be nice if there was some kind of standard agreed upon by tool companies but that would potentially cut into profit-margin.

 

[Greenman]

It would be nice, but it ain't never going to happen.
Makita just introduced a new line of tools and the batteries aren't compatible with their existing tools. That seems insane to me, so there must have been some compelling reason for it.
So far, DeWalt appears to have done the best job with two battery standards with the 60V batteries being able to work in the 20V tools. I've run a 1/4" impact driver with a 9 AH 60V battery plugged into it. The darn thing never stops going. My body wore out long before the battery did.

 

[mindless1]

^ I'd say Ryobi has done the best job since their battery format has remained the same far, far longer than anyone else. It's just a shame that NiCad existed because that means any tool has to have a mount cavity extended inside, larger than the casing around a sub-c cell to do this.

Granted, of the Ryobi tools I have, none suffer in form factor from it. I only have 18V from them while moving down to 12V is where the size shrink matters more.

Plus, Dewalt's batteries are far too expensive. Ryobi, I can get a 2 pack of 4Ah batteries for $80, every other week at Home Depot.

 

[Greenman]

Battery cost isn't much of an issue for me. I use the crap out of them, and to date I haven't had a single DeWalt battery fail. A few of them have to be five years old at this point. They may have diminished capacity, but not enough for me to notice.

I had a couple garage door installers on the job a few years back that used all Ryobi tools. They simply threw them away and purchased new every year.
Like I said a few posts back, Ryobi builds a competent tool. The few I own are limited use, but they work when I need them and I've had no issues. I do hate the color though.
Their pex electric crimp tool is without question the best one on the market at any price point. I can say that with confidence because it's the only electric crimp tool on the market.

 

[shortylickens]

the colors are ugly but they have to stand out against several other major brands, so I understand why.

After all these years I still like my Bosch tools. Have done many household projects with no complaints and nothing has died yet. But I dont see professionals using them so thats probably something to consider.
My only complaint is Bosch lawn and garden tools are not sold in north America, so I have to buy other brands for that. Surprisingly the Black & Decker tools have been going strong for almost 20 years now.

 

[Torn Mind]

Got the Fuel Drill and Driver set to do some unethical ware swapping.

Guess what? The chuck on the Fuel is also hawt garbage. Even worse than the non-Fuel. I tighten it out on a thin drill bit. Sometimes, it NEVER clicks to lock. Sometimes it does. It also slips while drilling.

The impact driver is lovely though, I think I'll just return the drill in the set back and keep the driver for myself.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Got the Fuel Drill and Driver set to do some unethical ware swapping.

Guess what? The chuck on the Fuel is also hawt garbage. Even worse than the non-Fuel. I tighten it out on a thin drill bit. Sometimes, it NEVER clicks to lock. Sometimes it does. It also slips while drilling.

The impact driver is lovely though, I think I'll just return the drill in the set back and keep the driver for myself.

It definitely shouldn't unreliably click to tighten, it's probably a defective chuck.

Unfortunately it seems like they are prone to defects either due to their design or quality control, so it'll be up to you if you want to exchange it to get a good one (my first M12 fuel drill was good and has been for years now) or give up on it.

As a general commentary, I'm getting really tired of a lot of companies giving up on basic quality control. If it couldn't reliably perform all the most basic tasks required of the design, you shouldn't have sold it. I'm looking at you, hifiman.

 

[Torn Mind]

It definitely shouldn't unreliably click to tighten, it's probably a defective chuck.

Unfortunately it seems like they are prone to defects either due to their design or quality control, so it'll be up to you if you want to exchange it to get a good one (my first M12 fuel drill was good and has been for years now) or give up on it.

As a general commentary, I'm getting really tired of a lot of companies giving up on basic quality control. If it couldn't reliably perform all the most basic tasks required of the design, you shouldn't have sold it. I'm looking at you, hifiman.

Sometimes it does on the first try. Sometimes it "slips" and then it finally clicks. As in, I have to stop turning and turn it again, and it finally clicks. If this is the dance with this particular unit when new, then who knows how worse it will get 100 uses later.

Premium Chinesium, I say.

 

[mindless1]

Seems like two options are switch to a higher end Dewalt hammer drill, which *usually* comes with a Rohm chuck, or get a Rohm chuck for what you have.

I don't know which fits what you have but see page 6 (aka 1004) "Self-tightening" (though their Extra50 or Extra80 series would still be an upgrade):

https://www.roehm.biz/fileadmin/content/pdf/products/en/01_Drill_chucks_2019.11_en_web.pdf

... or go retro and get a keyed chuck.