Here's what the Bible says:
All Christians should give to God a portion of what He has given them. Christians are to give according to each one?s ability and income:
Acts 11:27-30 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
27And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
28And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
29Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
30Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
1 Corinthians 16:2 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come
I don't see anything here about the gov't taking from the rich to give to the poor.
What do you mean "you corrected yourself".
You know insults generally don't lead to a productive discussion.
Are you interested in a discussion or you just troliing?
If you're trolling, I have better things to do.
You should worry more about your own.
There are plenty of private organizations that you can give to that are MUCH more efficient than the government at getting relief to the needy.
This isn't about me. This is about you and your ignoring the plain language of Jesus.
Fine, point is to give away all your wealth and live a spiritual life. Jesus is very clear about not getting into heaven if you are wealthy.
Actually, here's what Jesus says about getting into heaven:
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven?the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
Jesus never said that the rich CAN'T get into heaven.
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven?the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
Jesus never said that the rich CAN'T get into heaven.
Okay, I'll do your work for you so your two eyes and index finger don't have to.
To quote myself: "Let me rephrase that then. It seems to me that the Bible is stating that it is morally correct for the rich to give more than the poor."
There ya go.
By the way, let me quote my explanation for your "hidden messages" post: " Rip, do you find your eyes drawn to clocks at exactly 11:11?"
He did essentially that. Jesus used parables. He said
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
It is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Hence, it is harder than impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god. You are doomed unless you see the errors of your ways! Save yourself rip!
I don't get the 11:11 quip.
So you do think that it's a coincidence that the names of the 9 descendents from Adam mean:
"Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest."
There are others but they are too complex to explain easily here.
Get the book "Hidden Treasures in the Biblical Text" by Chuck Missler if you are interested.
So you do think that it's a coincidence that the names of the 9 descendents from Adam mean:
"Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest."
There are others but they are too complex to explain easily here.
Get the book "Hidden Treasures in the Biblical Text" by Chuck Missler if you are interested.
The Rich Young Man
17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good?except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[d]"
20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is[e] to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
28Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"
29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields?and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first."
Right, what he meant was that you can repent, change your ways, and it might work out for you. To think otherwise, you would have to admit that a muslim homosexual communist would be able to get into heaven, and that wouldnt' be possible right rip?
A rich man is covetous. He maintains his wealth, though he has no use for it other than his own luxury. The righteous man keeps only what is necessary for himself, and gives to those less fortunate than him the rest of his material possesions. Those who maintain their wealth while others around them suffer for the lack of it are covetous, and should therefore not be permitted into heaven. That's my interpretation.
The 11:11 is a reference to this. Of course, that is bullshit. The human mind sees patterns where they do not actually exist. This is done through a process (I forget what it's called) where you gather a bunch of data, keep the data that validates your theory, and discard all of it that refutes your theory.
Basically, I look through history for related incidents, and find that several of them land on a date that incorporates the number 11 in some way. I then argue that 11 is some sort of divine number... ignoring the fact that a majority of the data I collected has no relation to the number 11.
Similarly, I could go through the Bible looking for names in consecutive appearance that can somehow be made to display some sort of message. But what about all the other names that appear inbetween all those names you listed? The Bible has a lot of words. You're bound to find some sort of "patterns" if you look hard enough.
Here's what Jesus said:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
According to the Bible, everyone has sinned against God:
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
The price of sin is high:
"the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).
God Loves us in Spite of Our Sin
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8).
Repent, Turn Toward God, and Have Your Sins Completely Taken Away
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" (Acts 3:19).
By Grace You Receive His Free Gift (Eternal Life) Through Faith Which is Also from God
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8).
Confess Jesus and Believe That He Was Raised from the Dead by God
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
Pray (call upon) to the Lord and Be Saved:
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
According to the Bible, everyone has sinned against God:
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
The price of sin is high:
"the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).
God Loves us in Spite of Our Sin
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8).
Repent, Turn Toward God, and Have Your Sins Completely Taken Away
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" (Acts 3:19).
By Grace You Receive His Free Gift (Eternal Life) Through Faith Which is Also from God
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8).
Confess Jesus and Believe That He Was Raised from the Dead by God
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
Pray (call upon) to the Lord and Be Saved:
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
Hey, you can sin, but so can muslim homosexual communists. So I guess if you can make it despite ignoring His teachings on wealth, they can too... by your logic.
And you can't repent for something you're proud of Rip. I'm sorry. I hope the devil takes it easy on you.
Not giving your money to the poor and abandoning your material wealth and your worhsip of mammon.
Michael
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- Nov 19, 1999
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Interesting diversion from the topic of the original post. I have a JP Morgan research report that discusses the large growth in personal income over the last year as well - the title is "Global Data Watch - Shattering the illusion of weak US labor income". Personal income was up 8% last year.
I also like the two quick answers on "real estate bubble" (and the study in question took out real estate) and inflation (which has been low for years and the increase in the number of millionaires has been outpacing inflation).
This is good news. I don't know why it has to be bashed. I certainly do not give much credit to Bush for this. Much of it comes at the local and state level and I bet that states where the democrats are in charge or are strong show pretty good growth as well.
Michael
As for the Bible verse discussion, Infotroll has made his distain for religion quite clear multiple times and certainly is no authority to question faith. Riprorin is essentially correct in his interpretation of the passages in question (and my upbringing is Catholic).
It is clear that Jesus was being specific in the request to the one man to sell everything and join him. He then made the point of the dangers of wealth and material possessions in general. The God of the Old and New Testaments makes it clear that there should be no God before Him. For many, money is more important than God. Jesus pointed out to the rich man that he hadn't really been following the Ten Commandments as he placed money over God. The rich man was lying to himself in his belief that he had been faithful to the word of God.
Wealth in and of itself is not evil. Supporting your family and using your resources to help the less fortunate is a good example of the good that can be done. However, more wealth also opens up more temptations and can easily be the path to sin.
As for the camel going through the eye of the needle, that is obviously "impossible". The point isn't just how hard it is for a rich man to get to heaven. The point is that with God's love, it is possible.
Circular arguments and picking apart everything Riprorin says in discussing this is probably a form of amusement for the posters doing so. In my mind, they're closer to children pulling the wings off of flies or burning ants with a magnifying glass than enlightened people. I bet Riprorin is above them and forgives and loves them none-the-less, just as Jesus commands him to do.
I also like the two quick answers on "real estate bubble" (and the study in question took out real estate) and inflation (which has been low for years and the increase in the number of millionaires has been outpacing inflation).
This is good news. I don't know why it has to be bashed. I certainly do not give much credit to Bush for this. Much of it comes at the local and state level and I bet that states where the democrats are in charge or are strong show pretty good growth as well.
Michael
As for the Bible verse discussion, Infotroll has made his distain for religion quite clear multiple times and certainly is no authority to question faith. Riprorin is essentially correct in his interpretation of the passages in question (and my upbringing is Catholic).
It is clear that Jesus was being specific in the request to the one man to sell everything and join him. He then made the point of the dangers of wealth and material possessions in general. The God of the Old and New Testaments makes it clear that there should be no God before Him. For many, money is more important than God. Jesus pointed out to the rich man that he hadn't really been following the Ten Commandments as he placed money over God. The rich man was lying to himself in his belief that he had been faithful to the word of God.
Wealth in and of itself is not evil. Supporting your family and using your resources to help the less fortunate is a good example of the good that can be done. However, more wealth also opens up more temptations and can easily be the path to sin.
As for the camel going through the eye of the needle, that is obviously "impossible". The point isn't just how hard it is for a rich man to get to heaven. The point is that with God's love, it is possible.
Circular arguments and picking apart everything Riprorin says in discussing this is probably a form of amusement for the posters doing so. In my mind, they're closer to children pulling the wings off of flies or burning ants with a magnifying glass than enlightened people. I bet Riprorin is above them and forgives and loves them none-the-less, just as Jesus commands him to do.
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