Millenials (born 1980-2000) the new lost generation?

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/millenials-lost-generation-130643180.html

I would say this is a serious economic problem and proof that the United States is, in fact, about to decline in economic power.

It is abhorrent that our politicians don't fix the trade gap and break up massive institutions to promote stronger competition.

It is insane that you now have to take on an average of $30000 in debt in order to get a job that paid the same wages for a high school graduate 25 years ago.

I also agree that bringing in more H1-Bs will further damage the wages of skilled laborers.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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Interesting article. I would think its very hard to profile an age group of 18-34 though - especially through the last decade or so. Those who are closer to 30 or 34 will be much more established while those 18-21 will struggle for jobs. I do think its good that we reversed the trend of home ownership that was only possible through bad lending practices and over-leveraging but it was a pain-full lesson that many have suffered for

I think you'll find this trend continue though as the beginning of the next generation deals with excessive student loan debt. They won't be buying a house or saving for retirement anytime soon. To that end I'd be willing to bet the 1990s-2010 will have it tougher than those of us born in the 1980s. As a country we seemed to have lost sight of any sort of individual or group financial responsibility and its going to be a generation or two (if not more) until we relearn it. Unfortunately I expect that means re-learning it the hard way: painful experience
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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Interesting article. I would think its very hard to profile an age group of 18-34 though - especially through the last decade or so. Those who are closer to 30 or 34 will be much more established while those 18-21 will struggle for jobs. I do think its good that we reversed the trend of home ownership that was only possible through bad lending practices and over-leveraging but it was a pain-full lesson that many have suffered for

I think you'll find this trend continue though as the beginning of the next generation deals with excessive student loan debt. They won't be buying a house or saving for retirement anytime soon. To that end I'd be willing to bet the 1990s-2010 will have it tougher than those of us born in the 1980s. As a country we seemed to have lost sight of any sort of individual or group financial responsibility and its going to be a generation or two (if not more) until we relearn it. Unfortunately I expect that means re-learning it the hard way: painful experience
agree with everything you wrote.

Kids hitting college age today really have a lot stacked against them.

As an aside Gerald celente is a regular on Infowars so peeps should always check his facts :)
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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Interesting article. I would think its very hard to profile an age group of 18-34 though - especially through the last decade or so. Those who are closer to 30 or 34 will be much more established while those 18-21 will struggle for jobs.

It's in my personal experience that newer job openings are asking for younger persons to take on more work (serving on the company's tech support which ends up ecompassing the job roles of several different staff members in the description) for 30k/yr, and they want experience to boot with little to no learing curve.

There was an interesting read on why younger people have a harder time finding work and I don't really think its all skill and experience related.

EDIT: That link is geared to people in general, IMO, I just thought it would be good to relate to those younger folks!
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
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Young people have hard time finding work because they're tunnel-vision'd into a specific career path. Take jobs at Starbucks holding out for their dream job... useless.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
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I understand that even if economic growth continues in my country and the unemployment levels stop rising, the wages aren't going to go up again because now italians got everywhere due to a parallel process of worker substitution (aided by the crisis but also by the fact that it was going to happen anyway at least to some degree) and I'll just have to deal with it.
Schengen does to us what the H1-B galore does to you.

At least in Europe students don't drown in debt, public unis are subsidized so the public ones go like 2000-3000€ a year which is affordable to most if you live in the vicinity and can stay at home instead of getting a flat (most people can, the others can get state scholarships).
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
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There's a myth out there that millennial expect the world to be handed to them on a silver platter. Which is true to an extent but still a gross generalization. Much of the problem lies in how they were brought up. They're a product of the soft parenting/teaching movement of the 90's. However, this was true, especially in the early 2000s when the economy was booming. University grads were being snatched up right out of school, sometimes even before they graduated. You don't see that anymore.

Today the job process is a long and convoluted one. I graduated university in 2008 right when the recession was starting to get bad. I was out of work for six months. Absolutely nobody was hiring and the ones that were hiring were getting buried in applications. I eventually landed a job cleaning cars and went back to college to get more practical education. Then spent another 2 years looking for jobs in my field. Encountered a lot of the issues brought up in the Time article. Employers want someone they can dive in with minimal training. Most places used online applications to filter out resumes. Of those ones using computers, not a single one contacted me. Keep in mind I was only applying for entry level jobs.

During this time I worked for free shooting hockey games for cable access television, to maintain my skills and get more experience. I was lucky enough to eventually land a job with a start up. Due to numerous technical setbacks, we were fortunate to get more than ample training.

I think this is the reality for a lot of young people these days. They expect you to get a masters or grad certificate then work for free for a couple of years before they'll even look at you. When they do hire you, pay isn't great. I nearly died when I heard the office janitor makes almost double what I do. Spent years doing basically the same job, cleaning up others' mess, for minimum wage. So it's no wonder why so many kids are questioning the value of higher education. Though as I said, it's the reality. It does open doors but the pay is lower than it used to be for grads, and I suppose people are just going to have to suck it up.

Which brings me to why so many young people still live at home. Here in Canada anyway housing costs have gone through the roof. Even a small, one bedroom condo is at least $200,000. The rental market has stagnated and rents now average about $1000/mo. Housing prices haven't kept in line with average wages. Also the government now mandates a 20% downpayment to get a mortgage, as so many Gen Xers were going way over their heads buying their half million dollar cookie cutter houses. So at minimum you need $40,000 saved up to buy a house. With student loans, weak investments, and low interest rates, it's hard to save that kind of money. Especially on a single income. That's why I still live at home. Basically every dime not spent goes into the house account. I'm at about $35,000 so far.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,627
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The Republican myth is that if you work hard you will win. It seems that today's conservative has to find some fancy ways of rationalizing that. It's fun to watch conservatives become liberals when it's their lives that fail.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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The Republican myth is that if you work hard you will win. It seems that today's conservative has to find some fancy ways of rationalizing that. It's fun to watch conservatives become liberals when it's their lives that fail.

And today's liberal is there to convince people that even if you don't work hard, you should still win. Unless they're conservatives who are taking government money, and they're told to go get a job. It's fun to watch liberals become conservative when non-liberals are suckling at the government teat.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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The Republican myth is that if you work hard you will win. It seems that today's conservative has to find some fancy ways of rationalizing that. It's fun to watch conservatives become liberals when it's their lives that fail.

I don't know if that is accurate. You have to work hard AND MAKE GOOD CHOICES.

The making good choices is as important if not more so. Unfortunately liberals have spent 50 years saying all choices are equal.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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And today's liberal is there to convince people that even if you don't work hard, you should still win. Unless they're conservatives who are taking government money, and they're told to go get a job. It's fun to watch liberals become conservative when non-liberals are suckling at the government teat.

Why is the idea that no matter how hard you are willing to work, if there are no jobs and no opportunity you are fucked, so hard for you? I know, I know, you took unemployment insurance because you're an asshole leftist gimme handouts not because you needed the money.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
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It is insane that some people willingly take on an average of $30000 in debt in order to get a job that paid the same wages for a high school graduate 25 years ago.

Fixed, unless the high school graduate of 1988 you're referring to made a lot more than I'm imagining.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
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America Jumped the shark in 1963. Every generation from now on will do poorer than the prior generation before it.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Why is the idea that no matter how hard you are willing to work, if there are no jobs and no opportunity you are fucked, so hard for you?

Why is the idea that if you're a lazy piece of shit like so many Democrats and don't even try to work, that you don't deserve jack shit so hard for you?

I know, I know, you took unemployment insurance because you're an asshole leftist gimme handouts not because you needed the money.

Maybe you stupid fucks should fix your system then.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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That myth sure has worked well for me. My past and current positions required a engineering degree, I landed both due to my knowledge and experience.

heh, so true. Same here - no EE but doing work that hires ?Es. But I don't like my new one much so I'm going to start my own business. I'm a bit out of the range of the article though as I was born in the late 70s so I'm not in the slacker group :p
 

crunkzilla

Member
Mar 30, 2012
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0
61
That myth sure has worked well for me. My past and current positions required a engineering degree, I landed both due to my knowledge and experience.


Everything is based on timing. Right now people are looking into engineering degrees for a good job, eventually flooding the market in the future with new engineers. If your planning to become a teacher right now and major in English, history etc. your degree is considered a joke because theres too many teachers. In 10-15 years that could change and all of sudden English and history degrees are in high demand.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
I'm willing to bet that most of the people bragging about their success from working hard in these threads were not born after 1980.
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
I am 26 and a lot of my close friends and accquaintences have dead end jobs and almost no education. Even my girlfriend is now unemployed, however she is going back to school for an MIS degree.

I am very successful, but worked very hard at my internships, and in school. I did have some help from my parents, however. I credit a lot of my success to them.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
There's a myth out there that millennial expect the world to be handed to them on a silver platter. Which is true to an extent but still a gross generalization. Much of the problem lies in how they were brought up. They're a product of the soft parenting/teaching movement of the 90's. However, this was true, especially in the early 2000s when the economy was booming. University grads were being snatched up right out of school, sometimes even before they graduated. You don't see that anymore.

Today the job process is a long and convoluted one. I graduated university in 2008 right when the recession was starting to get bad. I was out of work for six months. Absolutely nobody was hiring and the ones that were hiring were getting buried in applications. I eventually landed a job cleaning cars and went back to college to get more practical education. Then spent another 2 years looking for jobs in my field. Encountered a lot of the issues brought up in the Time article. Employers want someone they can dive in with minimal training. Most places used online applications to filter out resumes. Of those ones using computers, not a single one contacted me. Keep in mind I was only applying for entry level jobs.

During this time I worked for free shooting hockey games for cable access television, to maintain my skills and get more experience. I was lucky enough to eventually land a job with a start up. Due to numerous technical setbacks, we were fortunate to get more than ample training.

I think this is the reality for a lot of young people these days. They expect you to get a masters or grad certificate then work for free for a couple of years before they'll even look at you. When they do hire you, pay isn't great. I nearly died when I heard the office janitor makes almost double what I do. Spent years doing basically the same job, cleaning up others' mess, for minimum wage. So it's no wonder why so many kids are questioning the value of higher education. Though as I said, it's the reality. It does open doors but the pay is lower than it used to be for grads, and I suppose people are just going to have to suck it up.

Which brings me to why so many young people still live at home. Here in Canada anyway housing costs have gone through the roof. Even a small, one bedroom condo is at least $200,000. The rental market has stagnated and rents now average about $1000/mo. Housing prices haven't kept in line with average wages. Also the government now mandates a 20% downpayment to get a mortgage, as so many Gen Xers were going way over their heads buying their half million dollar cookie cutter houses. So at minimum you need $40,000 saved up to buy a house. With student loans, weak investments, and low interest rates, it's hard to save that kind of money. Especially on a single income. That's why I still live at home. Basically every dime not spent goes into the house account. I'm at about $35,000 so far.
Because they grew up in the 1990's boom days and this is precisely what they were told. Derp.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
I am 26 and a lot of my close friends and accquaintences have dead end jobs and almost no education. Even my girlfriend is now unemployed, however she is going back to school for an MIS degree.

I am very successful, but worked very hard at my internships, and in school. I did have some help from my parents, however. I credit a lot of my success to them.

Yea I know. I was on a good path until my parents blew all their money. Some of my friends without parent help are ultimately going to default on their student loans. $50k job trying to pay down $180k on top of health/taxes/rent/food/gas/car etc.

I know more people in default or dead end jobs in this age group than successful people. And the successful ones mostly got extraordinary parental help, like I was getting.

Some of the "successful" people are just $10k or so away from default. Car utterly breaks down or a hospital stay could put them into student loan default because they are on the razors edge.

If you go 120 days delinquent your principle is assessed a 30-40% fee. It's highway robbery. The one guy had originally $120k and could only afford to pay the minimum and wasn't really paying down the debt. He got behind 120days and now owes $180k. Impossible.
 
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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Why is the idea that no matter how hard you are willing to work, if there are no jobs and no opportunity you are fucked, so hard for you? I know, I know, you took unemployment insurance because you're an asshole leftist gimme handouts not because you needed the money.

Agreed. Such a waste, some of these really talented people working as Starbucks Baristas.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,558
248
106
I was born in July of '79, and am doing ok, but not nearly as well as I had hoped when I was younger. On the upside, I now know what to watch for instead of blindingly telling my children to go to college, even though they have no idea what they want to do (yeah, that was me). So in a sense, this could be a cycle thing. I make the most of what I have, do what I can, and have a pretty happy family because of it.