Milk Cow in California discovered to be infected with Mad Cow disease.

[cybrsage]

Guilty as charged.

I was about to say that.

 

[sandorski]

The beef lobby is HUGE - they have enormous influence over the USDA. If one company tested every cow, they knew that consumers would eventually want EVERY cow to be tested.

Why didn't they want all of them tested? Because they knew mad cow disease was present in the U.S. For a short time after Europe figured out "durrr, stop feeding ground up cows to other cows", there was a bit of a surplus of ground up cow parts. They were exported. Hmmm... who imported them? Oh, us.

Of course, unless I'm mistaken, at time of slaughter, any cow displaying symptoms of mad cow was to be tested. The thing is though, symptoms don't typically show up until a much later age than the typical age of slaughter. I don't recall what the statistic is - I believe it's something like France tests as many cows in a week as the entire United States tests in a YEAR. Since the US has stopped feeding ground cow parts to cows, I would imagine that long before now, all of the mad cow had worked its way out of the system. So, I'm surprised one has been found.

edit: I checked - the statistic (back then, when mad cow was more of a problem) was that France tested more in a week than the U.S. did in a DECADE.

France tests 100% of their slaughtered Beef. Way back when this was a huge issue and 1 BSE cow in North America caused other countries to suspend trade in Beef, France had 10s of BSE cows every year. However, their Trade was not affected simply because their rigorous testing made French Beef safe at the Meat Counter.

 

[Codewiz]

I do not support government regulation that prevents private companies from testing their own beef. In fact I'm on record all over this forum criticizing government regulation, this is just another example of it.

My main problem is that a vegan doctor who fervently and rabidly opposes all forms of animal use for food or other products could be considered by any reasonable person as an authority on MCD.

So you have to eat beef to be a scientist that studies MCD? Wow......

EDIT: I get my beef from a local farmer. Grass fed beef where every cow was born on the property since 1932.

 

[monovillage]

So you have to eat beef to be a scientist that studies MCD? Wow......

EDIT: I get my beef from a local farmer. Grass fed beef where every cow was born on the property since 1932.

No, I said a vegan.... a vegan, not just someone who chooses not to eat beef.

http://www.vegan.org/

 

[Craig234]

Our food supply is in a really sad state of affairs.

I have to ask myself, how did we arrive at this point? Why is meat being fed to cattle?

Has the lust for money bypassed every ounce of common sense we are supposed to have?

You ask this and you're from Texas? The capital of corrupt politics on things like this?

Remember what happened to Oprah with the beef industry?

Some of my chickens

Actually, there are serious problems with animal cruelty with chicken cruelty.

Billions are raised who can't move and are stuffed with drugs, uppers and downers and antibiotics because they are very diseased reportedly.

We should take steps to improve that industry.

 

[Craig234]

I've seen a report suggesting that 20% of Alzheimer's might be misdiagnosed related to mad cow disease. I haven't looked into it enough to determine how correct that is.

They say it takes several decades for the disease to take effect, so it's a 'hidden problem'.

 

[monovillage]

I was posting this in another thread but thought it somewhat fit here also.

The Wisconsin State Journal reports,

The Madison School District has agreed to pay $31,454.57 in legal fees after the State Journal won an open records lawsuit over employee sick notes related to last year’s Capitol protests ….

Prior to the notes being released, the State Medical Examining Board disciplined nine doctors for their involvement in issuing notes during the protest. After the State Journal found at least 15 doctors in the notes who hadn’t been disciplined, the Medical Examining Board decided to investigate 11 additional doctors.

Something as stupid as falsifying records for a union protest and all those "Doctors" show their integrity. Sorry, the guys a vegan, if he had any integrity he wouldn't be researching MCD.

 

[DrPizza]

I was posting this in another thread but thought it somewhat fit here also.



Something as stupid as falsifying records for a union protest and all those "Doctors" show their integrity. Sorry, the guys a vegan, if he had any integrity he wouldn't be researching MCD.

It is highly suspected that MCD can lead to a similar disease in humans. Saying that he has no right to discuss this issue is about as stupid and dishonest of an argument as saying that a male has no right in being a gynecologist. It's apparent that you can't use facts to make your case, your arguments in this thread are pathetic and childish.

 

[Howard]

He's a fucking vegan asshole, who the fuck is going to believe anything that vegan asshole says about MCD?

what is this i don't even

 

[monovillage]

It is highly suspected that MCD can lead to a similar disease in humans. Saying that he has no right to discuss this issue is about as stupid and dishonest of an argument as saying that a male has no right in being a gynecologist. It's apparent that you can't use facts to make your case, your arguments in this thread are pathetic and childish.

You would know.

 

[monovillage]

what is this i don't even

It's my opinion that because of his vegan beliefs and principles that his work can't be trusted or relied upon. He not only doesn't use any animal products as food, he won't even wear animal products as clothing.

 

[Howard]

It's my opinion that because of his vegan beliefs and principles that his work can't be trusted or relied upon.

Well your opinion is dumb. So there.

 

[monovillage]

Well your opinion is dumb. So there.

Good, go hire Mel Gibson to translate sections of the Talmud then.

Just switch things around. If I said that Dr. Beefeater hired by the National Beef Council had a report out saying that American beef was the safest meat to eat in the whole wide world. Would you look askance at his report? Would you doubt it?
How about if a Doctor of Oceanography hired by British Petroleum said that the oil spill in the Gulf was 100% cleaned up. Would you call bullshit?

But somehow if I call bullshit on a vegan doing a report on mad cow disease I'm crazy? Call me cynical, but I think I'm more observant of political realities then some of the other folks here.

*RE-EDIT* Thank you Moonie for understanding about opinions that are bought and paid for due to fervent beliefs. It was my whole point about the Vegan Doctor.

 

[Moonbeam]

Good, go hire Mel Gibson to translate sections of the Talmud then.

Just switch things around. If I said that Dr. Beefeater hired by the National Beef Council had a report out saying that American beef was the safest meat to eat in the whole wide world. Would you look askance at his report? Would you doubt it?
How about if a Doctor of Oceanography hired by British Petroleum said that the oil spill in the Gulf was 100% cleaned up. Would you call bullshit?

But somehow if I call bullshit on a vegan doing a report on mad cow disease I'm crazy? Call me cynical, but I think I'm more observant of political realities then some of the other folks here.

The way I see it you are a conservative and this testing thingi threatens a large industry that engages in propaganda to protect financial interests which says that you have swallowed this propaganda and are an industry shill. Therefore whatever opinion you offer here can have no validity or meaning. You are just another bought and paid for propaganda machine who has as much logic on the subject of mad cow disease as a mad cow. I hope you like my capacity to shine at conservative thinking.

 

[Howard]

Good, go hire Mel Gibson to translate sections of the Talmud then.

Just switch things around. If I said that Dr. Beefeater hired by the National Beef Council had a report out saying that American beef was the safest meat to eat in the whole wide world. Would you look askance at his report? Would you doubt it?
How about if a Doctor of Oceanography hired by British Petroleum said that the oil spill in the Gulf was 100% cleaned up. Would you call bullshit?

But somehow if I call bullshit on a vegan doing a report on mad cow disease I'm crazy? Call me cynical, but I think I'm more observant of political realities then some of the other folks here.

*RE-EDIT* Thank you Moonie for understanding about opinions that are bought and paid for due to fervent beliefs. It was my whole point about the Vegan Doctor.

Why would I do that? Gibson is not an expert in Hebrew or Aramaic.

Yes, you are crazy. You refute something by showing that there is a flaw in the method by which the conclusion was deduced, not by personally attacking the people who work on the report.

 

[zsdersw]

Well, I guess not all of California's cows are happy cows.

 

[monovillage]

Why would I do that? Gibson is not an expert in Hebrew or Aramaic.

Yes, you are crazy. You refute something by showing that there is a flaw in the method by which the conclusion was deduced, not by personally attacking the people who work on the report.
mugs, Crono for Elite

The only posters worth reading in P&N (continually updated): woolfe9999, juiio, Infohawk, Don Vito Corleone, zsdersw

Need help stocking your kitchen?

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monovillage believes it is OK to call black women dogs.

Are you a vegan by any chance?

 

[DrPizza]

Good, go hire Mel Gibson to translate sections of the Talmud then.

Just switch things around. If I said that Dr. Beefeater hired by the National Beef Council had a report out saying that American beef was the safest meat to eat in the whole wide world. Would you look askance at his report? Would you doubt it?
How about if a Doctor of Oceanography hired by British Petroleum said that the oil spill in the Gulf was 100% cleaned up. Would you call bullshit?

But somehow if I call bullshit on a vegan doing a report on mad cow disease I'm crazy? Call me cynical, but I think I'm more observant of political realities then some of the other folks here.

*RE-EDIT* Thank you Moonie for understanding about opinions that are bought and paid for due to fervent beliefs. It was my whole point about the Vegan Doctor.

Since I'm intelligent, I wouldn't automatically dismiss what any "expert" had to say about an issue. But, I would apply a healthy dose of skepticism toward any claims made by someone within that industry. Actually, I apply a healthy dose of skepticism toward just about everything. And, I was skeptical about what this guy had to say about beef. However, his sources check out, his material is credible, and his logical conclusions make sense.

You, on the other hand, are an example of a growing problem we have in this country of individuals who automatically dismiss what someone says, simply because they don't agree with your own views. Your mind will never be swayed, because you refuse to accept any evidence contrary to your own (not always correct) views.

 

[Ninjahedge]

A testing sample has to be large enough to catch the things it is scanning for.

It is obviously not large enough, and the industry is not only unwilling to do so, siting fraudulent "operating costs", but is also influencing the USDA to PREVENT any company from taking on the expense, themselves, VOLUNTARILY to do the testing.

That second part is what I object to. Fine, the beef industry says "nuh-uh", but if a smaller farm wants to test 100% and put that on their label, I am all for it.

In America, a company should not be limited in how many of ITS OWN PRODUCT it has the right to test.



Mono, drop the Vegan tirade. You can express some reticence when reading his findings, but this level of rabid denunciation lends no credence to your argument. It only makes you look obstinate and recalcitrant.


PS, Thank GOD for spellcheck!

 

[bfdd]

This is a tragedy. Big blow to us Californians, hopefully they've squashed the issue.


ps an animal stuffed in a cage and fed then slaughtered is not animal cruelty. the animal never would have existed if it wasn't for the express purpose of being a resource for our needs. you should look at food no differently than you do the gasoline that powers your car or the electricity that powers your computer. other animals, animals not raised for this need/purpose obviously treating them that way would be cruelty.

 

[Ninjahedge]

So you are saying if humans were bred, stuck in cages and fed soylent green that would not be cruel because they never would have been born in the first place?

 

[monovillage]

A testing sample has to be large enough to catch the things it is scanning for.

It is obviously not large enough, and the industry is not only unwilling to do so, siting fraudulent "operating costs", but is also influencing the USDA to PREVENT any company from taking on the expense, themselves, VOLUNTARILY to do the testing.

That second part is what I object to. Fine, the beef industry says "nuh-uh", but if a smaller farm wants to test 100% and put that on their label, I am all for it.

In America, a company should not be limited in how many of ITS OWN PRODUCT it has the right to test.

Mono, drop the Vegan tirade. You can express some reticence when reading his findings, but this level of rabid denunciation lends no credence to your argument. It only makes you look obstinate and recalcitrant.


PS, Thank GOD for spellcheck!

Good point and well intentioned. Thank you for the kindness. You are right, I should have been more moderate towards the Doctor while still pointing out what I consider are valid doubts about his honesty.

Regulations are not always a positive thing, they should all be dusted off and scrutinized
occasionally.

 

[werepossum]

Since I'm intelligent, I wouldn't automatically dismiss what any "expert" had to say about an issue. But, I would apply a healthy dose of skepticism toward any claims made by someone within that industry. Actually, I apply a healthy dose of skepticism toward just about everything. And, I was skeptical about what this guy had to say about beef. However, his sources check out, his material is credible, and his logical conclusions make sense.

You, on the other hand, are an example of a growing problem we have in this country of individuals who automatically dismiss what someone says, simply because they don't agree with your own views. Your mind will never be swayed, because you refuse to accept any evidence contrary to your own (not always correct) views.

You missed his point. He automatically dismissed this expert not because he disagreed with the man's views, but because Dr. Gregor apparently embraces a lifestyle that actively condemns the farming and consumption of beef as a moral issue. I take no position (on Dr. Gregor) either way and I agree that our testing and tracking system is frightfully limited and outdated - not only on BSE prions but on botulism and other dangerous bacteria too - but a vegan making complaints about the beef industry deserves a LOT more than one's normal healthy skepticism simply because making such complaints is part of the vegan lifestyle. It's like an anti-abortion activist making claims about the safety of abortions - he might be well qualified and he might be right, but he has considerable incentive to shade the facts if not outright lie. And if Mark R is correct that this cow did not have the transmittable (prior-driven) form of BSE, then we have a smoking gun that Dr. Gregor did in fact shade the facts - in other words lie - to scare people. Whether that lie (if there was one) was driven by his vegan sensibilities is of course an entirely open question. I do agree with you and Blankslate that large food-producing companies have entirely too much influence with the USDA. That just goes to show the problem inherent in striking a balance between staffing with people ignorant of the industry and its legitimate concerns, and staffing with people too connected and too concerned with the industry's concerns and interests.

A testing sample has to be large enough to catch the things it is scanning for.

It is obviously not large enough, and the industry is not only unwilling to do so, siting fraudulent "operating costs", but is also influencing the USDA to PREVENT any company from taking on the expense, themselves, VOLUNTARILY to do the testing.

That second part is what I object to. Fine, the beef industry says "nuh-uh", but if a smaller farm wants to test 100% and put that on their label, I am all for it.

In America, a company should not be limited in how many of ITS OWN PRODUCT it has the right to test.



Mono, drop the Vegan tirade. You can express some reticence when reading his findings, but this level of rabid denunciation lends no credence to your argument. It only makes you look obstinate and recalcitrant.


PS, Thank GOD for spellcheck!

Well said. Big companies should not have power over small companies that want to use higher cost items to differentiate their products. And no government regulatory entity should ever be limiting voluntary public safety procedures, even if they are taken as a marketing measure, to prevent damage to companies choosing not to do so. Government regulatory entities should be encouraging such companies going beyond the bare minimum requirements, whatever their reasons.

By the way, if you're concerned about MCD try Angus beef. Farmers (at least smart ones) did not feed beef (or hog) products to Angus cows because unlike, say, Holsteins, Angus cows do not grow more quickly on a high protein diet, making the practice economically unfeasible in addition to being unsafe and. well, icky.

 

[Howard]

Are you a vegan by any chance?

No, I enjoy meat very much. Also, your question is quite the testament to the non-wrinkliness of your brain.

 

[Howard]

You missed his point. He automatically dismissed this expert not because he disagreed with the man's views, but because Dr. Gregor apparently embraces a lifestyle that actively condemns the farming and consumption of beef as a moral issue.

What does veganism have to do with actively condemning industrial meat farming and meat consumption? Does being a racist also make you actively condemn racial integration?