Military Press and Popped Shoulders

[Stuxnet]

So I was doing chin-ups the other day when I saw a guy (with hulking shoulders, mind you) pressing 85lb dumbbells. He was sitting completely straight up. As he went to make the movement, I thought to myself "holy cow... that dude is sitting perfect straight and is going to do this..."

4 reps in, "POP!"

Of course one of his buddies tried to be a hero and "fix" it, which went about as well as you'd expect.

I'm not a doctor, nor do I know this guy's routine or what kind of weight he normally throws around (was he pushing it that day in particular? who knows...). All I know is that when I sit straight up like he was, I feel a lot tension in my shoulder joint. I usually lean about 10 - 20 degrees back (wild guess). I know that pulls your upper chest into it so you're not quite getting the shoulder workout you otherwise would, but at least I know I'm reducing the chances of going to the ER that day.

Do you guys decline at all when you're doing MP's?

 

[blackdogdeek]

i do presses while standing. i believe my upper body is slightly declined when doing so. however, i think i'm supposed to end up with the bar above and slightly behind my head but that may be incorrect.

on an unrelated note, when i was just starting lifting my shoulder popped when i was doing behind the neck presses while seated. i was alone in my basement and had to find some way to pop it back in which i somehow managed by grabbing on to something and pushing down on my arm. that sucked.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Sitting perfectly upright and trying to get 180 degrees of shoulder flexion is a really bad idea. The normal, healthy shoulder gets 165 degrees of shoulder flexion with the extra 15 degrees coming from thoracic extension. If he was sitting perfectly upright, getting 180 degrees of shoulder flexion, he was likely unnecessarily stressing his shoulder.

Did his shoulder pop at the bottom or top of the rep though? I'd gander it'd be at the bottom. In all likelihood, he probably didn't have enough retraction and had posterior capsule tightness - forcing his humerus way too far on the joint. That puts a lot of stress on the structures on the front - labrum, anterior capsule, biceps tendon. Probably busted one of those - if it wasn't one of those, it could've possibly been one of the muscles of his rotator cuff that way trying to pull the humerus back into the joint so hard that it tore.

 

[Stuxnet]

Sitting perfectly upright and trying to get 180 degrees of shoulder flexion is a really bad idea. The normal, healthy shoulder gets 165 degrees of shoulder flexion with the extra 15 degrees coming from thoracic extension. If he was sitting perfectly upright, getting 180 degrees of shoulder flexion, he was likely unnecessarily stressing his shoulder.

Did his shoulder pop at the bottom or top of the rep though? I'd gander it'd be at the bottom. In all likelihood, he probably didn't have enough retraction and had posterior capsule tightness - forcing his humerus way too far on the joint. That puts a lot of stress on the structures on the front - labrum, anterior capsule, biceps tendon. Probably busted one of those - if it wasn't one of those, it could've possibly been one of the muscles of his rotator cuff that way trying to pull the humerus back into the joint so hard that it tore.

It happened right at the bottom of the movement as he was starting the next rep (which is when I personally feel the most strain in the joint).

I've only seen one other dislocated shoulder, but it didn't look this bad. His arm was just hanging there and it looked like he didn't even have a shoulder. Pretty sick.

I spoke to a trainer today (who I know to be friends with him) and he said he'd be out for 6 - 8 weeks. That doesn't sound very long for what I saw, but again, I'm not a doctor.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

It happened right at the bottom of the movement as he was starting the next rep (which is when I personally feel the most strain in the joint).

I've only seen one other dislocated shoulder, but it didn't look this bad. His arm was just hanging there and it looked like he didn't even have a shoulder. Pretty sick.

I spoke to a trainer today (who I know to be friends with him) and he said he'd be out for 6 - 8 weeks. That doesn't sound very long for what I saw, but again, I'm not a doctor.

The trainer doesn't know what he's talking about. If it's any sort of tear, he'll require surgery and will be away from serious lifting for up to 20ish weeks.

Being in the bottom of the press requires sufficient external rotation. He probably didn't have that either. He pretty much stressed his joint at end range without sufficient strength.

 

[Stuxnet]

So our victim was back in the gym yesterday. Saw him trying to do lateral raises and front raises with 5lbs of weight. Couldn't do it.

I felt bad for him... I overheard him say he was having surgery this Friday and was trying to workout before having to completely lay off for a few months. In the 20 days since this happened, he has lost significant mass. I was shocked... I didn't know you could lose it that quickly. Scary.

 

[Pia]

Sitting perfectly upright and trying to get 180 degrees of shoulder flexion is a really bad idea. The normal, healthy shoulder gets 165 degrees of shoulder flexion with the extra 15 degrees coming from thoracic extension. If he was sitting perfectly upright, getting 180 degrees of shoulder flexion, he was likely unnecessarily stressing his shoulder.

You sound like you know what you are talking about, but I have a hard time reconciling that with how weightlifters can hold giant amounts of weight at more than 180 degrees of shoulder flexion while doing jerk and snatch. Or standing military press for that matter.

 

[prism]

You sound like you know what you are talking about, but I have a hard time reconciling that with how weightlifters can hold giant amounts of weight at more than 180 degrees of shoulder flexion while doing jerk and snatch. Or standing military press for that matter.

I was thinking that too, but would it be because when you're using a barbell-as opposed to two dumbbells-you're forced to bring the bar slightly in front of you on the way down? When you're using two dumbbells, you can just bring them straight down on either side.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

You sound like you know what you are talking about, but I have a hard time reconciling that with how weightlifters can hold giant amounts of weight at more than 180 degrees of shoulder flexion while doing jerk and snatch. Or standing military press for that matter.

Oly lifters don't have the back of a seat limiting their thoracic extension. Also, keep in mind, they're not getting pure shoulder flexion. They use a motion more like scaption - a combination of shoulder flexion and abduction. So they get thoracic extension, plus full range shoulder scaption. This is a fine place to be catching and stabilizing a weight.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

i do presses while standing. i believe my upper body is slightly declined when doing so. however, i think i'm supposed to end up with the bar above and slightly behind my head but that may be incorrect.

on an unrelated note, when i was just starting lifting my shoulder popped when i was doing behind the neck presses while seated. i was alone in my basement and had to find some way to pop it back in which i somehow managed by grabbing on to something and pushing down on my arm. that sucked.

I'm a newb but everything you said is essentially right from what I have read. Granted you did not cover everything such as starting arm position.

SociallyChallenged,
How do you know all this? Long time lifter?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'm a newb but everything you said is essentially right from what I have read. Granted you did not cover everything such as starting arm position.

SociallyChallenged,
How do you know all this? Long time lifter?

I have a B.S. in exercise physiology and am a second year doctorate of physical therapy student. Physical therapy programs emphasize knowledge of normal joint contributions to motion, movement analysis, and biomechanics. On top of that, I've coached lifting and have been a serious lifter (powerlifting, CrossFit) for about 5 years.

 

[Exodist]

I have a B.S. in exercise physiology and am a second year doctorate of physical therapy student. Physical therapy programs emphasize knowledge of normal joint contributions to motion, movement analysis, and biomechanics. On top of that, I've coached lifting and have been a serious lifter (powerlifting, CrossFit) for about 5 years.

Gonna keep you on my list of knowledgeable peeps since I am starting to get back into shape. I been out of the military for over 5 year now and have put on 65+ pounds (all fat). I used to spend 2 hours easy on a elliptical machine, now 8mins is hell.. lol

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Gonna keep you on my list of knowledgeable peeps since I am starting to get back into shape. I been out of the military for over 5 year now and have put on 65+ pounds (all fat). I used to spend 2 hours easy on a elliptical machine, now 8mins is hell.. lol

Check out the fat loss sticky if you're interested in losing that weight.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I have a B.S. in exercise physiology and am a second year doctorate of physical therapy student. Physical therapy programs emphasize knowledge of normal joint contributions to motion, movement analysis, and biomechanics. On top of that, I've coached lifting and have been a serious lifter (powerlifting, CrossFit) for about 5 years.

Wow!

With Borders going out of business, could you recomend any good books?

I'm about to start the Stronglifts 5x5 program. Actually, I should state that when I move I intend on moving to it.

You're a good person to ask. Can you recomend anything as an alternative to overhead press? I'm doing military press right now as a substituion till we move. Hopefully the new home will have 8' ceilings in the basement. If not, I might do this in the garage.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Gonna keep you on my list of knowledgeable peeps since I am starting to get back into shape. I been out of the military for over 5 year now and have put on 65+ pounds (all fat). I used to spend 2 hours easy on a elliptical machine, now 8mins is hell.. lol

I'm nearing the end of the couch to 5K program. 3 months ago, I could barely jog for 90 seconds. My last run was 21.5 minutes and about 2.4 miles. I think it was 2.7 miles .... reminds me. I was suposed to check on Google maps to see what it actually was.

That program is a miracle. It's easy which shocks the hell out of me today.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Wow!

With Borders going out of business, could you recomend any good books?

I'm about to start the Stronglifts 5x5 program. Actually, I should state that when I move I intend on moving to it.

You're a good person to ask. Can you recomend anything as an alternative to overhead press? I'm doing military press right now as a substituion till we move. Hopefully the new home will have 8' ceilings in the basement. If not, I might do this in the garage.

Any good books regarding lifting? Physiology? Anatomy? What specifically?

Military press and overhead press are almost exactly the same thing. Why do you need an alternative? If it bothers you, you should work for better mobility - not cut out a really great lift. I would just do overhead movements outside since there's no ceilings, but that's just me.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I wil leventually move to overhead press because it works stabalizers more. For now though, ya ... jsut going to stick with military press I suppose.

I used to have books on proper weight lifting form. Not sure where it went.

But I was kinda curious about learning about biomechanics. I suppose. Basically learning about the various joints and what their ranges of motion are. What damage can be done when going beyond that range of motion. Etc.

But heck, if you know of a good book that teaches proper weight lifting form, that would be great. I'm kinda scared of those books though because if their quality is on ar with what the internet provides for information (especially you tube) I am in for a world of hurt. Literally.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I wil leventually move to overhead press because it works stabalizers more. For now though, ya ... jsut going to stick with military press I suppose.

I used to have books on proper weight lifting form. Not sure where it went.

But I was kinda curious about learning about biomechanics. I suppose. Basically learning about the various joints and what their ranges of motion are. What damage can be done when going beyond that range of motion. Etc.

But heck, if you know of a good book that teaches proper weight lifting form, that would be great. I'm kinda scared of those books though because if their quality is on ar with what the internet provides for information (especially you tube) I am in for a world of hurt. Literally.

One of the better books is a book called Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. It's a well-established book and is great for beginners.

If you want to know all that, you may as well just apply to physical therapy school There's honestly no way to learn all that without buying a mass of books. Biomechanics can range from very simple to very complex. The degree to which you wanna learn it will change the book. Btw, trust me, biomechanics books aren't exciting. It's a lot of numbers and probably not what you're thinking of. You're probably thinking more of kinesiology.

For the joint ROM stuff and its repercussions, that's essentially half of my orthopedic physical therapy classes. Again, not something that can really be learned and applied just by reading a book. If you look up a book on standard goniometry, you could find stats on the average ROMs.