• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Military Dilemma (Both Situtationally and Ethically)

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
I appreciate all the articulate responses from everyone, and also appreciate that this thread did not deteriorate like so many other do into mindless bickering. Some truly thought-provoking points were made. One thing I've begun to look into is the NSA.

I agree with a lot of what has been said; I definitely feel that becoming healthy 100% mentally (though I've never been suicidal as a few might have mentioned in here) is definitely key before making such a drastic decision.
 
If you're interested in the NSA you might consider looking into Military Intelligence in the Reserves. In the Reserve you'll get to pick your branch (MI) and it won't dominate your everyday life. Unless you get deployed. But that training, experience, and top secret clearance will open a lot of doors in the intel/analyst world. FBI, DIA, CIA, NSA, contracting, etc etc. Damn good money. Travel. Fun.

I'm not about to recommend anything... it's your life and you know it best. The fact that you're tentative leads me to believe it might not be the best choice. But I'm just just throwing some info out.

 
Serving in the US military was the second-best decision I've ever made (the first being the proposal to my wife! 😉). It is quite possible that serving prevented me from becoming a loser like many of my HS buddies.

If it's pride, self-esteem, physical fitness, and a sense of accomplishment that you seek, then the military may be a great choice - IF you go in and work to the very best of your abilities. Then again, you're also going to need to ween yourself off of the depression cocktails before you can ever truly become a great soldier... or citizen.. or husband... or father... or anything worthwhile.

Perhaps service and pride will replace the meds, and you'll become the man you know you can be.

Before joining, however, the first question you'll need to ask yourself is this: what do I want to be when I grow up? When you can answer that, with at least some sort of general sense of direction, only THEN can you choose the right military occupation.

If you can get yourself off the meds, based on your obvious intellect and writing skills, I would sincerely recommend a job in intelligence - we could always use more smart folk like you to keep us out of trouble! 😉

If you have ANY questions, at all, about the Army, send me a pm and I'll answer them to the best of my ability! Anytime!

I also hear the Coast Guard is building up a pretty decent Intelligence branch...

Good luck!
 
It's important to choose the right military occupation.
You can choose the occupation of Iraq or the occupation of Afghanistan 😀
 
Originally posted by: StepUp

Justin

I feel ya.

Those who know my posts on this board know I'm about as anti-establishment as it's possible to get. I have never trusted governments, especially ours. Still, I have always appreciated the freedoms we have, and the ideals that this nation was supposed to be founded on.

In high school my US History professor engaged us in debate one day. Eventually he confronted me; "Phoenix you have strong feelings about things, and you make some good points. But if you want me to believe in your conviction then I have to ask, 'what have you done about it?'" He then gave me his copy of Starship Troopers and sent me on my way. I came back a few days later and tried to engage in a different line of debate to which he responded, "I don't think you really understood the book. Go read it again. And if you want to object to my views, rather you have rational grounds or not, just remember that I was not only willing to put on a uniform to protect what I believed, I was willing to take it off again when it became a shackle rather than a tool."

After a couple more years of consideration I joined the Navy. The first gulf was going on, and while I didn't totally agree with all of the surrounding issues, I believed I would be able to balance my convictions and my military role. More importantly, I wanted to give my service and earn the right to exercise my citizenship rather than merely being 'entitled' to it. Very few people understood my decision, and most called it flat out crazy given my aversion to authority and government.

I can't tell you that it was easy service. My job was easy, my duty assignment the absolute cream of the crop, and the people I worked with and for were top notch. However I was correct not only in my assumptions about the ridiculous nature of military life, but also the total moral and ethical bankruptcy I encountered from the bureaucracy. It reinforced, and even strengthened my distrust and loathing of our government. But it also strengthened my pride and sense of 'ownership' as a citizen.

I faced disciplinary action more times than I can count, court martial/captain's mast something like 9 times. Every time it was because I refused to yield my principles to imposed military requirements. I was fortunate in that each time my superiors backed down, so I never suffered any real punishments for my idealism. It could just as easily gone against me. I can't say rather my conviction impressed/inspired them, or if they just decided it was bull-headedness and futile to waste resources on the attempt. I like to believe it was the first, but who knows really.

What I do know is I would do it again if I was living over. Despite all the struggles, all the abhorrent things I saw...God help me I would gladly do it again. Partly because I'm proud of what I accomplished (E1-E5 in 20 months, various citations and awards, doing my job while NEVER compromising my ideals), partly because what I learned allows me to be confident in my outlook and actions with regards to our government, but mostly because I see myself now as a full citizen of the United States of America, qualified to accept all rights and responsibilities of that role.

-------------------------------

Now, as to your situation. *sigh* While I would serve again 15 years ago, there is absolutely NO CHANCE I would serve under this administration, and very little I would serve under anyone so long as we're engaged in the 'war on terror'. While it's a personal choice, it's also about non-partisan things that are bad now and going to get worse - treatment of soldiers, military benefits, dangers both to life and limb and civic identity, etc. As much I would love to support your quest for citizenship, I couldn't live with myself if I suggested to anyone that it was in any way acceptable to be a part of what's going on right now in the government of this country.

As someone else mentioned already, there ARE other ways to serve...other ways to earn your place. They are every bit as noble and important...maybe even moreso. Look into them. Seriously.

Should you decide to serve I would say this: you are NEVER required to be anything but yourself, or to do anything you don't believe in. You must, however, be willing to accept absolutely any results of your choices. You do NOT get to offer your service then feel cheated or abused when you are asked to serve in a way you don't agree with. You have to go in fully aware of what you are going to be asked to do, and willing to either do it, or accept the punishments of not doing it. And realize that YOU are the one responsible for putting yourself in that position of having to choose. You, and you alone. I fully support your right to stand by your morals and ideals, even in the face of grave consequences to all involved...but you must accept what comes as a result. If you can do that, then I say do whatever you truly believe to be right, and you will have support and respect - even if it's pragmatically useless.

The whole wife issue is something else entirely, and only you and her can answer that one. I think there is value in demonstrating ones commitment to their nation, especially to a new citizen. It is a good example. Just make sure they fully understand that you're running towards something and not away from something. Just like service itself, you'll need to be willing to accept whatever consequences arise from your decision.

Good luck.
 
I have served in the US Army but it was over 20 years ago. I do feel that this promise of getting any kind of a preference when looking for a job after I got out of the military was non-existent. If anything employers consider military service to be a detriment to employment. So dont consider this in any way in your decision to serve in the military.

Being older I would hesitate to join now while we are in a war. I disagree with the politics of George Bush and some of the War Mongers we have in charge. I dont feel that there is a Muslim country worth fighting for.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
I have served in the US Army but it was over 20 years ago. I do feel that this promise of getting any kind of a preference when looking for a job after I got out of the military was non-existent. If anything employers consider military service to be a detriment to employment. So dont consider this in any way in your decision to serve in the military.
...

Depending on how far you advance in the military, this may be true.

As an officer, I discovered that employers (both DOD and Civilian) valued the training w/ respect to leadership.

The same pattern was also seen w/ respect to NCOs.

An enlisted that did their 3-5 years and out may be looked at differently, depending on the speciality.

 
Not going to take time to read all the responses, so if this has already been mentioned...then I second or third it...😉

If you REALLY want to serve your country but don't want to serve the war machine in Iraq, look into the US Coast Guard.

IMO, they have one of the most vital missions of any of our armed services...protecting the US coastline.

No, they're not the Navy or Marines, and should the problem be that of a military ship or submarine, then odds are the Coasties would report it and back off, but drug interdiction, rescue operations, escorting sensitive ships, etc...all part of their mission.

Having worked maritime construction for much of my career, our safety regs, drug testing, and many other regs and rules were set by the Coast Guard. Any major problem or serious injury was investigated by the USCG.

They truly are the 9-1-1 of the ocean.

If that doesn't appeal to you, how about something like the Peace Corps?

(BTW, 4 years USMC, 22 months in Vietnam.)
 
With all due respect to members of those services (including my father-in-law, a retired Master Chief), they don't face nearly the danger in Iraq that the ground-pounders in the Army and USMC do.

Have ole Master Chief explain IA (Individual Augmentation) to you. There are thousands of squids pounding the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan RIGHT NOW. Which is insane since they weren`t really trained for it. They rotate about every six months, so by the time this "war" is done, a fair percentage will have had a Southwest Asia experience.

If you REALLY want to serve your country but don't want to serve the war machine in Iraq, look into the US Coast Guard.

Years ago, the Coasties were authorized off-duty concealed carry in Florida, cause the drug lords were targeting them since they did so much anti-drug ops and work with DEA.
Not sure about now. Not to mention he might get sent to the Bering Strait for nine months out of the year doing fisheries enforcement. Br-r-r.

If anything employers consider military service to be a detriment to employment.

On a more positive note, this is wrong. In the military you are routinely drug tested, expected to show up to work and actually be productive most of the time. There are certain employers who do prefer prior service because what they see coming out of high school today is in general, not desired. That`s not true in every case, or maybe even most, but certain industries (transportation for one) recruit prior military quite heavily.

Honestly, with depression and a new wife, stay out of the military. Best wishes.

 
StepUp,

I'm in the U.S. Army and a medic. In regards to your history of depression I think that you should become acquainted with the following regulation. AR 40-501 Standards of Medical Fitness. In particular, Chapter 2-27, page 14. While I'm neither a physician nor do I know your medical history, I think that some of these stipulations may apply to you.

I laud your honest and sincere consideration of military service, but there are other directions that can be considered. The Department of State, immediately comes to mind. NASA and NOAA are highly respected organizations that favorably impact our nation and have bearing at a global level. The point that I'm trying to make is that you don't need boots, armor and a weapon to have an real and measurable impact for yourself, your nation or mankind.

Good luck.

p.s. Keep the wife. Sometimes just being a great Husband and Dad is the most important thing in the judgment of people who'll really matter in your life.
 
StepUp,

Lemon said:

One can take two views of the question, a personal whats good for StepUp and also a view of whats good for the country. Neither of which have any easy answers. And given your qualifications, you can also consider the option of going in as an officer rather than an enlisted man. And as others have pointed out, you can pick and choose various MOS options that will almost ensure you will or will not end up in combat if the armed forces are engaged at combat at the time.

Truer words would be hard to find......

I've been where you are, and it's not a pretty place. I originally joined to get away from the world. Instead I got to be part of it in more ways than ever. It's not an easy choice, and only you can choose.

My background? I'm one of those former trigger pullers in the Cav that decided that there's a better use for my skillsets. I took some time off to be civilian. I spent almost eleven years in federal law enforcement, looking for what made me feel alive. Then I got an invitation to join a non-conventional unit, and after trying it on, have never been happier. I get to do and see things that other soldiers may never get the opportunity to do. It's hard on my old bones nowadays, but experience pays off more often than not. Please don't get me wrong and think that it's a cakewalk...because it's far from that. It IS a feeling of getting something done and making a change....

The Army NEEDS intelligent people...just not as door kickers. The recruiter is NOT your friend on this, and most of what he does is sell slots by quotas. If you're a linguist (you didn't say so but I'm betting that you are), then you should look into the non-conventional units, OR check out USACAPOC as a Reservist. Either way you get more responsibility for your own actions, more opportunities and more challenges than as a door kicker. You also get to see places that most will never see (for better AND worse!).

You don't have to compromise your morals to be a soldier, and anyone telling you that you do, is a moron. Even as a combat troop (and no offense intended when I say that a traditional combat slot may not be for you) Typical Rules of Engagement pretty much say, that unless the idiot shoots at you or becomes a threat, you can't shoot them.

Of course you could always join the peace corps or USAID and serve the World just as well. Only you can make the choice, and NOT making a choice is a choice in itself
 
Back
Top