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Midrange?

I

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
I'm checking speakers out now(Z-2300), but keep hearing the same thing over and over again even in pretty expensive speakers: "There's no(very low) midrange." So my question is, what exactly is the midrange part of sound? <I know what bass and high are🙂.> Could you provide an example of what types of sound fall into the midrange?

All the sound coming out of my speakers now sound the same so I seriously need a new pair.

Extra question: While I'm at it, dialogue is always super low in games and movies on my systems(new and old). One has an SB Live, the other is Realtek onboard. Using the same speakers, is this a sign?
 
http://www.har-bal.com/frequency.php

midrange is a big part of the voice range. They call it midrange because it is in fact just that, in the middle.

on that chart its roughly the 120-600 range.

For your extra question yes, new speaker should improve that assuming the new speakers have a good midrange.
 
The midrange is the periphery where the subwoofer and a satellite will cross over in frequencies.

If a subwoofer does too much of the work, it will sound boomy.

Satellites with small drivers have problems with this range as its the lower bound of their extention.

So there's often a "midrange hole" found in lower end satellite/subwoofer systems, which you don't have as much of in larger speakers.

Larger computer speakers like the AV123 Swan M200s and Altec Lansing MX5021s are examples of speakers with much fuller midrange, either from larger drivers or a combination of more drivers (greater surface area).

http://www.psbspeakers.com/Images/Audiotopics/fChart.gif

Both this graph and the graph that sean provided are the "fundamental" frequencies that instruments hit. The harmonics actually go out much futher, which is why more accurate speakers have tweeters to cover more of the audible band.

 
According to the psb chart midrange extends to ~8Khz. That seems way too high to still be considered a midrange frequency. It extends beyond every instrument they list.

Astrallite, you have been in the game longer than I have. Is that chart accurate stating midrange from 300hz to 8Khz?
 
Originally posted by: seanp789
According to the psb chart midrange extends to ~8Khz. That seems way too high to still be considered a midrange frequency. It extends beyond every instrument they list.

Astrallite, you have been in the game longer than I have. Is that chart accurate stating midrange from 300hz to 8Khz?
Click to expand...

Midrange is an interesting term. It can mean a lot of things. In terms of audio speaker systems though...midrange usually perform between 120 to 2 KHz....obviously this can vary. However, the midrange usually stops at a max of 4 KHz
 
Midrange is a nebulous audio term (what isn't?) and not a scientific word. It can mean alot to different people.

You could certainly take it to mean frequencies the "mid" woofer in a bookshelf loudspeaker plays, and that usually does extend quite far out, and certainly could be as far as 8KHz at the upper bound.

You could also take it to mean the midrange as the range that surrounds our most sensitive hearing range--usually 2-5KHz or the "prescence region". (A speaker with a slightly tilted response here usually the culprit for being monikered as a "bright speaker.").

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/imgsou/eqloux.gif

This is a graph of what the average ear perceives as a "flat" response". In this case the "midrange" or high sensitivity region is around 300-7KHz.

The "peak" at 2-6KHz is of course, not surprisingly, the range of the human cry.
 
Thanks a lot for the responses. Very very informative.

Guess my speakers really do suck right now. I can barely hear dialogue in movies, and instrument sounds do seem weaker on my system. My standard Panasonic 20" CRT seems to have better built in stereo speakers than me. All my concert DVDs have loud and audible guitars/drums/bass on the TV, but I can barely hear them on the computer; vocals usually drown everything out on system. Guess I'm getting new speakers afterall (wallet going to feel very light...). Wish I bought those MX5021s after Christmas for $100🙁.
 
Sounds to me like a sound card setting problem. like 5.1 activated but no center or real channel speakers are hooked up
 
If you want good midrange don't get logitechs. They're good speakers for the most part, but the lack of a tweeter means that the cones in the satellites have to make up a very broad range including high range and some midrange, and the big subwoofer has to do the rest. Thus there is a pretty big gap between.

EDIT: low volume dialog shouldn't be a problem unless your speakers are very very crappy. Probably a settings/sound card problem.
 
Originally posted by: clickynext
If you want good midrange don't get logitechs. They're good speakers for the most part, but the lack of a tweeter means that the cones in the satellites have to make up a very broad range including high range and some midrange, and the big subwoofer has to do the rest. Thus there is a pretty big gap between.

EDIT: low volume dialog shouldn't be a problem unless your speakers are very very crappy. Probably a settings/sound card problem.
Click to expand...

All reviews ever made on the logitech Z series have a different opinion. The Phase plug does the job of the tweeter and after owning 3 set of Klipsch and now owning 2 Z5500's and a z560 can say imo that the logitech series sounds much better and can handle more bass then the Klipsh ever could.

This is one review of several proving my point. You will not find one bad thing pretty much on all of the Z series speakers made by Logitech.
 
The phase plug is a more powerful dust cap and gives more power handling and reduces the effects of compression. It isn't "a tweeter", because it doesn't play any frequencies, nor is it connected to the electric waveform.

The Z-5500s are "decent", its slightly below +/-5db from 200-20KHz. There are two obvious problems with this design--EQing a single 3" midrange driver to play up to 20KHz--is one, you are getting much higher distortion than a dedicated tweeter-midrange design because it's playing frequencies louder than the natural woofer rolloff. The second obvious problem is high frequency (13KHz+) frequencies beam forward like a laser. With a midrange woofer player that far out, it *too* starts beaming, which reduces the dispersion pattern--loss of soundstage size, you have to listen to them more nearfield and directly toed-in.

You will generally not find complaints for the money; however the bass response is fairly sad on Logitech subwoofers. Upper bass peaks and lack of extention gives off "radio-style bass" and is the primary culprit for annoying neighbors at night. Bass in itself is usually not an actual problem.
 
Based on the z560's I've been using for nearly 5 years now, which may reflect the z5500's due to the same phase plug design, the very high frequencies sometimes lack the clarity I get out of my home theater system. Midrange sounds okay usually, but the lower mid is sometimes shared with the sub as far as I can tell, and it doesn't work out that great. Bass is great, but I tend to like my music more on the treble side and plus I don't want to disturb other people around so I turn that down a bit.
 
Looks like you guys are saying the same thing as people over at sharkyextreme. Guess I'm leaning towards the MX5021s which sounds like the best next to sliced bread over there too🙂. Blah... they're double what I can get Z-2300s for, but since I'll be using for years...

Really started to notice the mono-ness of my sound (looked hard). Played with media player's equalizer, and wow, I can actually hear different frequencies better. I've messed with other equalizers before, but never got it to sound anywhere near normal. Guess I got lucky or I'm just annoyed. Is it normal to have to mess with the equalizer settings to get sound to sound normal? Or can I conclude my speakers suck ***.
 
It means they aren't accurate.

And no, your speakers don't suck--they are fair/good value for the price. A speaker that "sucks" would be something that costs $1,500 and could be matched or bettered by $200 speakers, all things equal. One such example actually exists within the same company--AV123 Onix X-LS, a $200/pair speaker, is more accurate and linear than their $1,500 Ref 1. Funny? Well the Ref 1 does have a gorgeous finish, but I hardly think that should account for $1,300 price differential. And I'm probably right; B-stock are $750 (usually B-stock might get you a 10% discount), and you can get these off Audiogon for like $500, so clearly the Ref 1s are a "looks before performance" type item.

The MX5021s fill the mids and treble better than the Logitechs, and the bass is alot cleaner, so thumbs up if you buy it, but just a heads up, probably the cleanest and most complete system is the Klipsch iFi at $200.

Even then, its just a stopgap feature. Actually I would probably suggest you look for a receiver or cheap amp ($40 Sonic T-amp comes to mind) and a pair of bookshelves. Such as the Onix X-LS comes to mind, at $200. The difference between them and the iFi/MX5021 will probably be a lot more than the prior--MX5021 over the Z-2300.

If the Z-2300 shares the same satellites as the Z-5500, then according to the Audioholics review the frequency response is around +/- 5db from 200-20KHz, which is why you are forced to use the equalizer (and induce distortion artifacts in the process, which is why EQing isn't optimal) to make the response more even. The X-LS is +/-1.8db, from 20KHz down to 60hz.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/Onixxlsp1.php

These speakers are a real gem. If you have the budget ($250ish, or $200 if you already have a receiver sitting around) and are willing to try something new, this will send your audio through the roof : )

The drivers themselves cost more than $110 out of the $200 total cost. If this were the Z-5500s, it would be more like $30 for components, $170 for Logitech marketting department.

Disclaimer: I don't own this speaker. The speakers in my sig were actually the reference that the Onix X-LS copied (very similar looks/design), but are a bit more expensive (80% more), less pretty finish, but a little more accurate (+/- 1db 60-20KHz)
 
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