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Middle Eastern justice seems to be popular on this forum

D

Dari

Lifer
40 lashes and no soup for you.

link

Saudis order 40 lashes for elderly woman for mingling

(CNN) -- A Saudi Arabian court has sentenced a 75-year-old Syrian woman to 40 lashes, four months imprisonment and deportation from the kingdom for having two unrelated men in her house, according to local media reports.

According to the Saudi daily newspaper Al-Watan, troubles for the woman, Khamisa Mohammed Sawadi, began last year when a member of the religious police entered her house in the city of Al-Chamli and found her with two unrelated men, "Fahd" and "Hadian."

Fahd told the policeman that he had the right to be there, because Sawadi had breast-fed him as a baby and was therefore considered to be a son to her in Islam, according to Al-Watan. Fahd, 24, added that his friend Hadian was escorting him as he delivered bread for the elderly woman. The policeman then arrested both men.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam called Wahhabism and punishes unrelated men and women who are caught mingling.

The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, feared by many Saudis, is made up of several thousand religious policemen charged with duties such as enforcing dress codes, prayer times and segregation of the sexes. Under Saudi law, women face many restrictions, including a strict dress code and a ban on driving. Women also need to have a man's permission to travel.

Al Watan obtained the court's verdict and reported that it was partly based on the testimony of the religious police. In his ruling, the judge said it had been proved that Fahd is not the Sawadi's son through breastfeeding.

The court also doled out punishment to the two men. Fahd was sentenced to four months in prison and 40 lashes; Hadian was sentenced to six months in prison and 60 lashes. In a phone call with Al Watan, the judge declined to comment and suggested the newspaper review the case with the Ministry of Justice.

Sawadi told the newspaper that she will appeal, adding that Fahd is indeed her son through breastfeeding.

The case has sparked anger in Saudi Arabia.

"It's made everybody angry because this is like a grandmother," Saudi women's rights activist Wajeha Al-Huwaider told CNN. "Forty lashes -- how can she handle that pain? You cannot justify it."

This is not the first Saudi court case to cause controversy.

In 2007, a 19-year-old gang-rape victim in the Saudi city of Qatif was sentenced to 200 lashes and six months in prison for meeting with an unrelated male. The seven rapists, who had abducted the woman and man, received sentences ranging from 10 months to five years in prison. The case sparked international outrage and Saudi King Abdullah subsequently pardoned the "Qatif Girl" and the unrelated male.

Many Saudis are hopeful that the Ministry of Justice will be reformed. Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz announced in February a major Cabinet reshuffling in which many hard-line conservatives, including the head of the commission, were dismissed and replaced with younger, more moderate members.

The new appointments represented the largest shakeup since King Abdullah took power in 2005 and were welcomed in Saudi Arabia as progressive moves on the part of the king, whom many see as a reformer. Among ministers who've been replaced is the minister of justice.

The actions of the religious police have come under increased scrutiny in Saudi Arabia recently, as more and more Saudis urge that the commission's powers be limited. Last week, the religious police detained two male novelists for questioning after they tried to get the autograph of a female writer, Halima Muzfar, at a book fair in Riyadh, the capital of the kingdom.

"This is the problem with the religious police," added Al-Huwaider, "watching people and thinking they're bad all the time. It has nothing to do with religion. It's all about control. And the more you spread fear among people, the more you control them. It's giving a bad reputation to the country."
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I'll go ahead and assume (since you're incapable of articulating it yourself) that your argument is such:

"If you disagree with the above quoted punishment, then you should also find barbaric the Egyptian court ordering death for the 10 rapists."

The argument is so full of fail that it's frankly not even worth addressing.

 
SA must be getting more progressive. Used to be her sentence would be a gang rape by the men she was mingling with followed by a public stoning.
 
I lived in Bahrain for a while and I could witness the hypocrisy of the Saudi on a weekly basis. Every weekend Bahrain is invaded by thousands of Saudi looking for hookers and booze. Pubs and clubs were full of Saudi getting shitfaced.
 
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
No, ME punishment is "popular" in the "eye for an eye" sense.

This is not "eye for an eye", and is crazy stupid.

OP fail
Click to expand...

I'm just observing, not arguing either way. But I'm sure there have been worse punishments in the past for rapists and other criminals in the middle east. But people like to pick and choose which justice they agree with. My point is you'll want the milk but not the whole cow.
 
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
No, ME punishment is "popular" in the "eye for an eye" sense.

This is not "eye for an eye", and is crazy stupid.

OP fail
Click to expand...

I'm just observing, not arguing either way. But I'm sure there have been worse punishments in the past for rapists and other criminals in the middle east. But people like to pick and choose which justice they agree with. My point is you'll want the milk but not the whole cow.
Click to expand...

That's true everywhere. Some punishments are good, some suck. Congratulations on realizing that.
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
No, ME punishment is "popular" in the "eye for an eye" sense.

This is not "eye for an eye", and is crazy stupid.

OP fail
Click to expand...

I'm just observing, not arguing either way. But I'm sure there have been worse punishments in the past for rapists and other criminals in the middle east. But people like to pick and choose which justice they agree with. My point is you'll want the milk but not the whole cow.
Click to expand...

That's true everywhere. Some punishments are good, some suck. Congratulations on realizing that.
Click to expand...

That is usually a personal opinion, not a general opinion or else it would be integrated into your local laws. But then you miss the bigger point of the punishment, which is either to exact a similar or worse action against the criminal (for prevention sake) or rehabilitate, sometimes society seeks a balance between the two.
 
Originally posted by: Dari
But then you miss the bigger point of the punishment, which is either to exact a similar or worse action against the criminal (for prevention sake) or rehabilitate, sometimes society seeks a balance between the two.
Click to expand...
That assumes we accept the act as a crime in the first place, which I'm sure many on this board wouldn't (in this case).
 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
I lived in Bahrain for a while and I could witness the hypocrisy of the Saudi on a weekly basis. Every weekend Bahrain is invaded by thousands of Saudi looking for hookers and booze. Pubs and clubs were full of Saudi getting shitfaced.
Click to expand...

It's okay as long as they're men.
 
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: Dari
But then you miss the bigger point of the punishment, which is either to exact a similar or worse action against the criminal (for prevention sake) or rehabilitate, sometimes society seeks a balance between the two.
Click to expand...
That assumes we accept the act as a crime in the first place, which I'm sure many on this board wouldn't (in this case).
Click to expand...

It goes both ways. There are acts Americans consider crimes and Saudis do not. For example, having multiple wives.
 
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: Dari
But then you miss the bigger point of the punishment, which is either to exact a similar or worse action against the criminal (for prevention sake) or rehabilitate, sometimes society seeks a balance between the two.
Click to expand...
That assumes we accept the act as a crime in the first place, which I'm sure many on this board wouldn't (in this case).
Click to expand...

It goes both ways. There are acts Americans consider crimes and Saudis do not. For example, having multiple wives.
Click to expand...

That's moot.

The discussion I was replying to was our acceptance of their punishments vs. crimes, not the other way around. See: "If you disagree with the above quoted punishment, then you should also find barbaric the Egyptian court ordering death for the 10 rapists."

That discussion hinges on the what is seen as a crime in their eyes may not be one in our eyes.

Just because some people like their punishment doesn't mean they agree with their crimes.
 
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: Dari
But then you miss the bigger point of the punishment, which is either to exact a similar or worse action against the criminal (for prevention sake) or rehabilitate, sometimes society seeks a balance between the two.
Click to expand...
That assumes we accept the act as a crime in the first place, which I'm sure many on this board wouldn't (in this case).
Click to expand...

It goes both ways. There are acts Americans consider crimes and Saudis do not. For example, having multiple wives.
Click to expand...

That's moot.

The discussion I was replying to was our acceptance of their punishments vs. crimes, not the other way around. See: "If you disagree with the above quoted punishment, then you should also find barbaric the Egyptian court ordering death for the 10 rapists."

That discussion hinges on the what is seen as a crime in their eyes may not be one in our eyes.

Just because some people like their some of the punishments doesn't mean they agree with all their crimes.
Click to expand...

Fixed for you. BTW, then you would also agree with them punishing adultering women but not adultering men with lashes as well, right, even though you don't necessarily think it's a crime? I can see many here "understanding" the Saudi pov on that matter.

 
Originally posted by: Mr Pickles
This is religious law. It doesn't have to make sense. It just is what it is. I think its horrible.
Click to expand...

We have religious law in the US too, we just tend to not codify it in governmental law. How do you rule something unconstitutional when the author was god? problematic.
 
Look at these people. Bunch of primitive pigs.

Still is Israel's fault for all the middle east conflicts of course. Right?
 
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Look at these people. Bunch of primitive pigs.

Still is Israel's fault for all the middle east conflicts of course. Right?
Click to expand...


Yes. Can you stfu now? You don't have to bring that into this discussion when the article didn't even MENTION Israel. Furthermore do you even know anyone that think all the problems in the middle east are due to Israel? Come on man...


On the article...their laws are ridiculous, anyone willing to lash the old woman should be lashed as well
 
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Mr Pickles
This is religious law. It doesn't have to make sense. It just is what it is. I think its horrible.
Click to expand...

We have religious law in the US too, we just tend to not codify it in governmental law. How do you rule something unconstitutional when the author was god? problematic.
Click to expand...

Good call. There is also the rationale behind most of the "by day" rules and traditions that have stood the test of time and technology. In terms of Christianity, its not as if the rules that are followed interfere too much with our every day lives. They are capable of blending into society.
 
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