Middle class & living paycheck to paycheck

[moonbogg]

If they are truly living paycheck to paycheck, they are living at the tail end of their means, which is stupid. This has nothing to do with how much money you make (unless you're extremely poor). I could live paycheck to paycheck making $200,000 a year in the lowest cots of living area in the country.

Exactly. Nuff said.

 

[nageov3t]

That's a common misconception. Middle class starts in the 6-figure plus range. It's much more than a working class wage obviously, but it's not "rich territory" yet. Individuals who make reasonable working-class wages love to consider themselves middle class because of their success (which they've duly earned) and for the title of thinking they're middle class, but they're still working class by definition.

where are you getting that from?

anywhere in the country outside of a major metropolitan city, +$100k would be considered comfortably upper/middle class.

of course, it depends greatly on where you live and what your situation is. a couple with no kids is obviously going to be a lot more comfortable on $100,000 than a couple with 8 mouths to feed, clothe, and put through school.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That's a common misconception. Middle class starts in the 6-figure plus range. It's much more than a working class wage obviously, but it's not "rich territory" yet. Individuals who make reasonable working-class wages love to consider themselves middle class because of their success (which they've duly earned) and for the title of thinking they're middle class, but they're still working class by definition.

It is especially important to be realistic with yourself when it comes to "class definition" because of political representation. Was it not just a few years ago we had politicians masquerading around saying they wanted to boost the middle class, and people were lining up in droves in support. When it came time to pass laws, they said, "Ya'll ain't middle class, suckers!"

Don't get confused by semantics. Upper middle class starts around $100,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

 

[drebo]

Student loans have a lot to do with it too. It is not all frivolous spending, at least for some.

In a lot of cases college is frovolous spending.

 

[SaurusX]

That's a common misconception. Middle class starts in the 6-figure plus range.

The AT financial distortion field is in full effect.

 

[Exterous]

a generation ago, a middle class family was probably living in a much smaller house (*gasp* not having a master bedroom/bathroom suite, and children possibly required to share rooms), had 1-2 TV's instead of one in every room, only had one car, etc.

No probably about it. A few years ago NPR did a story on how Americans have changed their home styles. In the 50's they had 3.7 kids in a 983 sqft house but now we have 2300+sq ft for 2.5 kids.

It was a pretty interesting series about how views have changed; how much shorter we keep our houses and how keeping our houses about 1/10th as long has affected how much we spend on mortgages, the view that every child now needs their own room along with a dedicated play area, rapid rise in basement finishing and the costs associated with etc etc

Edit: here's part of it:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5525283

 

[smackababy]

not to dismiss the problem offhand, but people also have different expectations over what's required to live comfortably these days.

a generation ago, a middle class family was probably living in a much smaller house (*gasp* not having a master bedroom/bathroom suite, and children possibly required to share rooms), had 1-2 TV's instead of one in every room, only had one car, etc.

kinda reminds me of an article in the Washington Post this week, bemoaning how even families earning $100,000/year were struggling in the DC-area. meanwhile, the family they profiled had a half-dozen iPads and a $300/month cellphone bill.

The house I grew up in was smaller than my current condo. I don't think either of my parents has ever purchased a car new.

People, especially poorer people, are putting more value in material things and living paycheck to paycheck for it. Everyone wants designer clothes, a big house, and a nice car. Who cares if you don't have any retirement! You'll have designer shoes!

 

[Tweak155]

I want a big car but have the wits about me to not actually buy it... for now.

I've reached the point where I buy everything effectively with cash unless I get a rate that would make that decision stupid. Like my car... 1.84% car loan rate. My other 2 cars though I own straight up.

Even with getting 1.84%, I put about $10k down on my car and I pay over the monthly minimum. I just can't help it... interest is just throwing money away it feels like. I have to remind myself I'm beating inflation.

My 0% credit card on the other hand... I'll pay the minimum on that without any quarrels

 

[smackababy]

I want a big car but have the wits about me to not actually buy it... for now.

I've reached the point where I buy everything effectively with cash unless I get a rate that would make that decision stupid. Like my car... 1.84% car loan rate. My other 2 cars though I own straight up.

Even with getting 1.84%, I put about $10k down on my car and I pay over the monthly minimum. I just can't help it... interest is just throwing money away it feels like. I have to remind myself I'm beating inflation.

My 0% credit card on the other hand... I'll pay the minimum on that without any quarrels

I exclusively use my credit card for purchases, but I pay it off every month. And understand that just because you want something doesn't mean it is prudent to stretch yourself thin for is is a good skill to have; far too many don't have such sense these days.

 

[Tweak155]

I exclusively use my credit card for purchases, but I pay it off every month. And understand that just because you want something doesn't mean it is prudent to stretch yourself thin for is is a good skill to have; far too many don't have such sense these days.

Well yeah, I buy everything I can on credit cards pretty much, but never have a rotating balance.

Even since I got my first credit card as a teenager, I've never been charged even a single cent in interest or paid any type of credit card fees.

I have, however, paid interest / fees on car loans / mortgages, but at least now it is by choice.

 

[BoberFett]

That's a common misconception. Middle class starts in the 6-figure plus range. It's much more than a working class wage obviously, but it's not "rich territory" yet.

You're deluded.

 

[BoberFett]

No probably about it. A few years ago NPR did a story on how Americans have changed their home styles. In the 50's they had 3.7 kids in a 983 sqft house but now we have 2300+sq ft for 2.5 kids.

It was a pretty interesting series about how views have changed; how much shorter we keep our houses and how keeping our houses about 1/10th as long has affected how much we spend on mortgages, the view that every child now needs their own room along with a dedicated play area, rapid rise in basement finishing and the costs associated with etc etc

Edit: here's part of it:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5525283

NPR? Pffft, they're just a Republican mouthpiece trying to convince people to lower their expectations to please our corporate overlords.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Somehow I feel this ties in to the increasing notion that if you can't afford something, it shouldn't be a barrier to obtaining it, just buy it on credit. Lots of people are living paycheck-to-paycheck because they've already spent their money and are repaying massive debts.

 

[Exterous]

Even with getting 1.84%, I put about $10k down on my car and I pay over the monthly minimum. I just can't help it... interest is just throwing money away it feels like. I have to remind myself I'm beating inflation.

Pft - you should have invested that $10k and your overpayments over the life of the loan instead. Even safe investment like a 5 year CD would be better at 2.3%

Somehow I feel this ties in to the increasing notion that if you can't afford something, it shouldn't be a barrier to obtaining it, just buy it on credit. Lots of people are living paycheck-to-paycheck because they've already spent their money and are repaying massive debts.

A quick google search shows that the average personal debt not including mortgages was 5x less in 1950 than it was in 2010 after inflation adjustments. Average credit card debt across all households is $7,000 ($15,000 when only sampling indebted households) while average credit card debt for those households. The good news is that the $7k figure is down 13% since 2008

 

[smackababy]

Pft - you should have invested that $10k and your overpayments over the life of the loan instead. Even safe investment like a 5 year CD would be better at 2.3%



A quick google search shows that the average personal debt not including mortgages was 5x less in 1950 than it was in 2010 after inflation adjustments. Average credit card debt across all households is $7,000 ($15,000 when only sampling indebted households) while average credit card debt for those households. The good news is that the $7k figure is down 13% since 2008

The average person owes that much in CC debt? Wtf? That is why the economy is in the crapper. The "must have it now because I'm entitled to it" crowd has taken over!

 

[Pr0d1gy]

smh So many people in here are completely delusional to the reality of the world outside of their Fox/CNN bubble.

 

[1prophet]

Yes let's just blame the consumer for their debt ridden overspending situation because they should know better, but if they are not spending and the economy stagnates let's blame them for that too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

The Stanford marshmallow experiment[1] was a series of studies on delayed gratification in the late 1960s and early 1970s led by psychologist Walter Mischel, then a professor at Stanford University. In these studies, a child was offered a choice between one small reward (sometimes a marshmallow, but often a cookie or a pretzel, etc.) provided immediately

or two small rewards if he or she waited until the tester returned (after an absence of approximately 15 minutes).

In follow-up studies, the researchers found that children who were able to wait longer for the preferred rewards tended to have better life outcomes, as measured by SAT scores,[2] educational attainment,[3] body mass index (BMI)[4] and other life measures.

The experiment has its roots in an earlier one performed on Trinidad, where Mischel noticed that the different ethnic groups living on the island had contrasting stereotypes of one another, specifically, on the other's perceived recklessness, self-control, and ability to have fun.[6]

This small (n= 53) study of male and female children aged 7 to 9 (35 Black and 18 East Indian) in a rural Trinidad school involved the children in indicating a choice between receiving a 1¢ candy immediately, or having a (preferable) 10¢ candy given to them in one week's time. Mischel reported a significant ethnic difference, large age differences, and that "Comparison of the "high" versus "low" socioeconomic groups on the experimental choice did not yield a significant difference".[6]

Absence of the father was prevalent in the African-descent group (occurring only once in the East Indian group), and this variable showed the strongest link to delay of gratification, with children from intact families showing superior ability to delay.

Now let's take these low discipline, impatient children, especially from single parent households with limited critical thinking skills and apply the psychological tricks below throughout their life, how do you think they will turn out?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

The business and political world uses psychological techniques to read, create and fulfill the desires of the public, to make their products or speeches as pleasing as possible to consumers and citizens.

Curtis raises the question of the intentions and roots of this fact. Where once the political process was about engaging people's rational, conscious minds, as well as facilitating their needs as a society,

the documentary shows how by employing the tactics of psychoanalysis, politicians appeal to irrational, primitive impulses that have little apparent bearing on issues outside of the narrow self-interest of a consumer population.

Paul Mazur, a leading Wall Street banker working for Lehman Brothers, is cited as declaring: "We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs".[2]

“Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes!

 

[dmcowen674]

$40,000 a year is not middle class.

It's working class.

This is not something the U.S. had.

Not something to be proud of.

This is what you and your rich ilk have created.

The U.S. was Poor (below Poverty line), Middle Class and the Rich

Now you have working Poor.

Disgusting

 

[IGBT]

40k a year and now 10-15 k for obama care with a 6k deductable. Elections Have Consequences.

 

[dmcowen674]

40k a year and now 10-15 k for obama care with a 6k deductable. Elections Have Consequences.

True, if Americans never voted Republican this never would have happened.

 

[Strk]

40k a year and now 10-15 k for obama care with a 6k deductable. Elections Have Consequences.

I highly doubt those numbers

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by IGBT
40k a year and now 10-15 k for obama care with a 6k deductable. Elections Have Consequences.

I highly doubt those numbers

Well a local Pepsi Bottling plant here in Indianapolis just went on strike because they upped the deductible for them to $9,000.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36320603