Middle Class in Decline

[Matt1970]

The people at the top bargain from an advantage. That's the simple explanation. There's a lot more to it than that, but suffice it to say as things stand the people at the top will continue to gain more at the expense of the middle and the bottom.

Seeing as how 52% of the population works for small businesses, 14% work for the Government and another 16% are self employed, that doesn't leave a lot for those evil greedy rich corpoartion type to enfluence.

 

[OutHouse]

maybe the poor should start paying their fair share in taxes and stop leaching off the 1%.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Seeing as how 52% of the population works for small businesses, 14% work for the Government and another 16% are self employed, that doesn't leave a lot for those evil greedy rich corpoartion type to enfluence.

That the middle class is getting squeezed out isn't going to be reflected in employment percentages because they're disappearing... You're proving my point.

 

[Infohawk]

Since we aren't generating decent paying jobs, sure. After a bit things do get a bit old though. If as much energy were applied to solutions as complaining we might get somewhere.

A fair amount of posters still seem to be denying these facts though. People are denying that there are issues with wages and someone in this thread acted like the existence of PCs means people aren't worse off than a generation ago.

 

[Throckmorton]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/09/how_rich_are_poor_people.html



If the middle class are doing even better, where's the struggling, exactly?

An Xbox and financial security are two different things


That poor family is working twice as many hours as a middle class family did 40 year ago. And instead of owning a house in the suburbs, they have video games and a $300 computer...

 

[Matt1970]

That the middle class is getting squeezed out isn't going to be reflected in employment percentages because they're disappearing... You're proving my point.

That makes no sense.

 

[Throckmorton]

Since we aren't generating decent paying jobs, sure. After a bit things do get a bit old though. If as much energy were applied to solutions as complaining we might get somewhere.

Conservatives oppose solutions...

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

That makes no sense.

Big corporations cut out middle class jobs. People are now jobless or severely underemployed. What are the percentages going to shift towards?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

A fair amount of posters still seem to be denying these facts though. People are denying that there are issues with wages and someone in this thread acted like the existence of PCs means people aren't worse off than a generation ago.

If wages have to play the rat race game to keep up with inflation then this scenario we see in the decline of the middle-class is basically inevitable when the boom and bust cycle hits hard and the economy goes bust.

So when you destroy the purchasing power of the middle-class via inflationary polices and in addition to reducing any incentives to save due artificially manipulated interest rates by the Fed in order to re-inflate another bubble then how are you not going to see a decline in the middle-class?

Edit: Its only going to get worse if the Fed pushes another QE3 because the effect of its ability to keep the economy on life support or revive it will have greatly diminished in contrast to its inflationary effect on our dollars compared to past QE actions.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Conservatives oppose solutions...

What are those solutions?

Running up the federal debt and increasing inflation so that it eats up any gains from wages and savings? Artificially pegging interest rates so that it becomes pointless to save now and spend later?

Attempting to re-inflate a new bubble and continuing the status quo of reckless spending is not going to solve our looming crisis in this nation.

 

[Matt1970]

Big corporations cut out middle class jobs. People are now jobless or severely underemployed. What are the percentages going to shift towards?

If cutting a middle class job makes/saves a corporation money, than that job was inefficient or no longer needed. Corporations don't hire people just to hire them. You are still not showing me how they control the flow of money to the top.

 

[Phokus]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/09/how_rich_are_poor_people.html



If the middle class are doing even better, where's the struggling, exactly?

Those are pretty trivial things to base how well one off is. If you look at things you need to survive on, the poor are worse off.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Those are pretty trivial things to base how well one off is. If you look at things you need to survive on, the poor are worse off.

Umm...compared to the rest of the world our "poor" are nowhere close to the level of poverty seen in 3rd or 2nd world nations when it comes to "things you need to survive on".

 

[Throckmorton]

Umm...compared to the rest of the world our "poor" are nowhere close to the level of poverty seen in 3rd or 2nd world nations when it comes to "things you need to survive on".

Compared to the worst parts of the third world... Yes, I guess the poor are doing OK. They don't live in mud huts.

Compared to 40-50 years ago, the poor are doing worse than ever. So are the middle class.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

If cutting a middle class job makes/saves a corporation money, than that job was inefficient or no longer needed. Corporations don't hire people just to hire them. You are still not showing me how they control the flow of money to the top.

I'm not going to bust into an economics and history lesson for you.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Compared to the worst parts of the third world... Yes, I guess the poor are doing OK. They don't live in mud huts.

Compared to 40-50 years ago, the poor are doing worse than ever. So are the middle class.

Compared to 40-50 years ago!? You seriously have no historical context to make this statement and not have it be laughable when you are taking about and comparing the standard of living 40-50 years ago for the average poor as compared to today.

 

[glenn1]

Do the 1% actually think they will continue to get away with this?

Really?

Krugman's lack of demand diagnosis is correct. We have suffered from a lack of demand for over a decade now.

The 1% can and will "get away with it" because people demand the goods and services they produce; the iPads, Hollywood movies, mutual funds in your 401(k), and intellectual property of all kinds.

And on the other side of the coin, people most certainly don't demand what the left defines as "middle class" jobs - the overpriced, unionized, unskilled, clock watching labor worker drone whose meager job skill set can be matched by someone in the 3rd world with a 2nd grade education.

 

[Infohawk]

The 1% can and will "get away with it" because people demand the goods and services they produce; the iPads, Hollywood movies, mutual funds in your 401(k), and intellectual property of all kinds.

That assumes they will be making enough to buy those things you're talking about. That's the entire problem. Things will not keep going as they are. You absolutely have to buy off the middle-class if you want to allow for the 1%. If you don't, they will change things like they did in the 1930s.

And on the other side of the coin, people most certainly don't demand what the left defines as "middle class" jobs - the overpriced, unionized, unskilled, clock watching labor worker drone whose meager job skill set can be matched by someone in the 3rd world with a 2nd grade education.

What do you define as middle-class?

 

[Matt1970]

I'm not going to bust into an economics and history lesson for you.

Won't or can't?

 

[sixone]

An Xbox and financial security are two different things

That poor family is working twice as many hours as a middle class family did 40 year ago. And instead of owning a house in the suburbs, they have video games and a $300 computer...

That's the beautiful thing about a free country. People get to choose between financial security and an Xbox, or a house in the suburbs.

It's a much easier choice, given the low interest rates available today. 40 years ago, getting a rate below 10% was damn tough.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

That's the beautiful thing about a free country. People get to choose between financial security and an Xbox, or a house in the suburbs.

It's a much easier choice, given the low interest rates available today. 40 years ago, getting a rate below 10% was damn tough.

The flip side is that eventually this promotes "spend now rather then later" policies which have the long term effect of reducing consumer spending. In addition artificially low interests rates (Which are currently pegged by the Fed.) ensure that any attempt to save outside of investment vehicles that can keep up with inflation are rendered useless. So acquiring a saving accounts and parking your money in it today in order to save money as an average Joe is effectively worthless because inflation will eventually eat up your interest gains from saving.

 

[Ronstang]

There is no middle class. You can redefine it all you like but, the days of a single wage earner making enough to afford a house and family are long over.

ORLY? I'm a single wage earner that just bought a largish house. Even though I paid cash I could easily afford a mortgage....and a family to go with it if I wanted one. I know plenty of people who are single wage earners supporting their stay at home wives and kids in nice houses. The whole world does not necessarily reflect the view from your perspective.

 

[Throckmorton]

That's the beautiful thing about a free country. People get to choose between financial security and an Xbox, or a house in the suburbs.

It's a much easier choice, given the low interest rates available today. 40 years ago, getting a rate below 10% was damn tough.

Huh? Since when do an Xbox and a house cost the same?

 

[Throckmorton]

ORLY? I'm a single wage earner that just bought a largish house. Even though I paid cash I could easily afford a mortgage....and a family to go with it if I wanted one. I know plenty of people who are single wage earners supporting their stay at home wives and kids in nice houses. The whole world does not necessarily reflect the view from your perspective.

You also apparently earn enough to own and maintain several classic cars. You are not the typical American.

There are people in the poorest third world hellhole who can afford a decent life. That doesn't mean they have a middle class.

 

[dmcowen674]

Posts by the Rich Republicans in here show they will not be happy until the 99% are in mud huts in the U.S.

Remember how I've been saying how they hate America for over ten years?

Can that be any more clear than what you see in black and white posted by them for the world to see.