Microwave ovens - am I right about this?

[Muse]

I found a MW oven on the sidewalk yesterday (Goldstar Multiwave 1.5 cubic foot, model No. MA-1554M, manufactured in 1994, couldn't find its manual online). Seemed great just checking it out on the sidewalk (although 1.5 cubic foot is freakin' huge!), so I brought it home (my great 0.9 cubic foot Sharp MW oven stopped working a few months ago and I've been using very underwhelming MWs since). The Sharp is rated at 12A and the much bigger Goldstar at 12.5A. Isn't the speed of heating of a MW oven pinned to the amps/volume value? I'd think so, and the value for the Sharp is 1.33 and for the Goldstar it's 0.833. That's a huge difference. Is it possible that the Goldstar outperforms its amps/volume value? Or is it bound to take 1.33/0.833 times longer to heat the same item? That's like 1.6x as long.

I have several microwave ovens and TBH, I found them all on the sidewalk! The one I found yesterday seemed OK, so I brought it home, cleaned it up and tried it out. I liked it because of the ergonomics. The door opened really easily with a well designed button. It seemed to close easily without making a big thump noise (that is annoying in a small kitchen in which sound bounces off the walls).

I was underwhelmed by the first try on heating up a refrigerated item. Although it says "one touch cooking" on the front of it, those are all for specific foods:

Popcorn [2:30]
Pizza [1:00]
Frozen Entre [8:00]
Food Plate [2:45]
Baked Goods [0:35]
Beverage [2:10]
Casserole [1:50]
Vegetable [1:50]
Baked Potato [4:10]

I determined the cooking time for all these by trying each (and cancelling after seeing the initial value). But there's no guarantee that it's using the high power setting for these and I have no way of determining that. I strongly suspect it's not.

The Sharp MW I've been using for a number of years seems great in all respects that I can think of and I have a mind to try to fix it. Its door also opens very easily and nicely and it closes with even less noise than the Goldstar. Also a sidewalk find, it has great one touch cooking. One button adds 30 seconds, another a minute. You can add even as an item is cooking (super great idea). This one I found yesterday lacks this feature and I think it has to be much slower.

I use a MW a lot. I'm hesitant to go out and buy one because I'm pretty fussy about them. I can imagine getting one home and not liking it and wanting to return it. Yeah, I guess most places will let you do that but I wouldn't like that. Two trips, and I'm not much into trying and returning and trying something else. I like to get it right the first time. Besides, the high end stuff seems to run around $250. Yeah, for the perfect MW I'd be OK with that, but identifying that is a problem. I think I'm going to open my dead Sharp (manufactured in 1992) and try to figure out how to fix it.

 

[Kaido]

I bought a well-reviewed compact unit from Home Depot a couple years ago & it has turned out to be complete junk. The power system is weak & it's too dumb to let you cook AND have a kitchen timer at the same time (I had no idea modern microwaves could even lack that feature). SweetHome has some better options in their reviewing, but I'm sticking with what I have because it's small & fits in my small kitchen:

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-microwave/

 

[lxskllr]

Not a fan of microwaves, but if I have to use one, I like my monkey wards model from the 80s. It's low power, which I like. Everything's cooked at high, and only the length of time gets adjusted. Powerful microwaves can go from crunchy ice to glowing plasma in a few seconds. Even better is when you get both. Crunchy ice on one side, plasma on the other. Slow and steady wins the race every time.

 

[Muse]

I bought a well-reviewed compact unit from Home Depot a couple years ago & it has turned out to be complete junk. The power system is weak & it's too dumb to let you cook AND have a kitchen timer at the same time (I had no idea modern microwaves could even lack that feature). SweetHome has some better options in their reviewing, but I'm sticking with what I have because it's small & fits in my small kitchen:

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-microwave/

I've used MW timers a few times but I rely on cheap AAA powered timers from China I've bought off Ebay. Unfortunately, the quality I've received the last time or two wasn't what it was. The beeps are too high frequency for my depleted hearing, just high pitched squeaks. My old ones are better but they do get tired (not as loud or their buttons stop working properly). I have more than 1/2 dozen of them.

 

[lxskllr]

I've used MW timers a few times but I rely on cheap AAA powered timers from China I've bought off Ebay. Unfortunately, the quality I've received the last time or two wasn't what it was. The beeps are too high frequency for my depleted hearing, just high pitched squeaks. My old ones are better but they do get tired (not as loud or their buttons stop working properly). I have around 1/2 dozen of them.

You don't use the onboard timer?

 

[Muse]

Slow and steady wins the race every time.

Hmm. I guess I should consider that. But I haven't been aware of a problem with mine. It's true that some parts get hotter than others (i.e. the outside heats much faster than the inside), but I've been figuring that there's no way around that, that it has nothing to do with the heating rate, it's just the absorption pattern you get with MW radiation. The solution I use is to stop in the middle of heating, stir it, mix the outside with the inside and then continue heating.

I don't use a MW too much for defrosting. Occasionally, but mostly to reheat, occasionally to cook, e.g. potatoes, I cook them in the MW pretty frequently. When cooking potatoes, I first cut them into equal sized pieces. I stop the cooking process several times to turn them over to get them to continue cooking as evenly as possible. When they are somewhat softened and no long rigid, they are "done." I then cut the pieces into smaller pieces and add to my recipe.

 

[Muse]

You don't use the onboard timer?

Nah. Almost never. I use my cheapo Chinese timers for that. I have replaced the crappy magnets on them with really strong ones. One advantage is that you can put it in your pocket, leave the room and still have your timing thing going on.

 

[Muse]

I'm sticking with what I have because it's small & fits in my small kitchen:
the one you decided is complete junk?
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-microwave/

Is that, the GE JES1656SRSS, the one you decided is complete junk?

 

[Zanovar]

Hmm. I guess I should consider that. But I haven't been aware of a problem with mine. It's true that some parts get hotter than others (i.e. the outside heats much faster than the inside), but I've been figuring that there's no way around that, that it has nothing to do with the heating rate, it's just the absorption pattern you get with MW radiation. The solution I use is to stop in the middle of heating, stir it, mix the outside with the inside and then continue heating.

I don't use a MW too much for defrosting. Occasionally, but mostly to reheat, occasionally to cook, e.g. potatoes, I cook them in the MW pretty frequently. When cooking potatoes, I first cut them into equal sized pieces. I stop the cooking process several times to turn them over to get them to continue cooking as evenly as possible. When they are somewhat softened and no long rigid, they are "done." I then cut the pieces into smaller pieces and add to my recipe.

Ya.They never heat food right through ive noticed.Definitely needs stopping and stirring.Hate microwaves tbh.

 

[lxskllr]

Ya.They never heat food right through ive noticed.Definitely needs stopping and stirring.Hate microwaves tbh.

That's why low power is better. You just cook it a bit longer, and don't fuck with it. Cook too long(defined as 3 seconds more than optimal) at high power, and you can use the result for shoe soles. I agree though, microwaves suck. If mine dies, it won't be replaced unless a free one drops in my lap. I won't go looking for one.

 

[Muse]

Ya.They never heat food right through ive noticed.Definitely needs stopping and stirring.Hate microwaves tbh.

Well, reheating leftovers in a pot gives you one more thing to clean, the pot. And pots are harder to clean than porcelain plates. Heating on the plate you eat off of is more time/labor efficient. I can live with the uneven heating problem. Stirring in the middle of the reheating process and after works well enough for me. I also reheat coffee (or tea) in the MW. That works terrific.

 

[lxskllr]

Well, reheating leftovers in a pot gives you one more thing to clean, the pot. And pots are harder to clean than porcelain plates. Heating on the plate you eat off of is more time/labor efficient. I can live with the uneven heating problem. Stirring in the middle of the reheating process and after works well enough for me. I also reheat coffee (or tea) in the MW. That works terrific.

I eat out the pot I cooked the stuff in(The glory of being single!) :^D

I don't reheat drinks. The quality goes down on reheating. Better to drink them cold.

 

[Muse]

I eat out the pot I cooked the stuff in(The glory of being single!) :^D

I don't reheat drinks. The quality goes down on reheating. Better to drink them cold.

Even so, cleaning a pot is harder than cleaning a plate, a lot harder.

Cold coffee annoys me except in hot weather, when iced coffee works magic

 

[tynopik]

Isn't the speed of heating of a MW oven pinned to the amps/volume value?

not in any meaningful sense

microwaves don't heat the air, only the object absorbing them

 

[Muse]

Hate microwaves tbh.

I hate most of them too. A select few, I really really like. It's the ergonomics (open close really nice) and the well thought out controls (one touch being essential, and add time while cooking is a nice feature, and my currently non-functional Sharp has this with single touches, 30 or 60 seconds per tap).

 

[Muse]

not in any meaningful sense

microwaves don't heat the air, only the object absorbing them

But my impression is that the density of the MW waves is dependent of two things, the power and the volume. The bigger the volume that the radiation has to bounce around in the thinner the radiation, i.e. the heating capacity (rate). If my paradigm is incorrect, please explain. I fully realize it has nothing to do with heating air, it's about objects inside the oven absorbing the radiation, which excites movement of molecules, increasing the temperature.

Edit: Actually, thinking about it, you're maybe right. Not that I was thinking about air heating, I know that's not the issue. But maybe the same object in a larger oven with the same power will heat at the same rate, or just about. That's the question.

 

[tynopik]

The bigger the volume that the radiation has to bounce around in the thinner the radiation, i.e. the heating capacity (rate).

but any that miss get bounced right back

it's why you shouldn't run the microwave empty. Without anything to absorb the power, bad stuff happens

 

[Kaido]

Is that, the GE JES1656SRSS, the one you decided is complete junk?

No, to clarify, I got a random microwave from Home Depot (an LG iirc) that had good reviews when I pulled it up on my phone - instead, I wish I had researched it more & gotten that recommended GE from SweetHome instead, as their reviews are usually pretty spot-on.

 

[NoTine42]

I’m most amused by my GE (over the stove) microwave has a 1 touch potato button. I’ve never gotten much into other “food” buttons.

I don’t even have to tell it how many potatoes I just put in . I believe it has a steam sensor, so it cooks until it recognizes steam. Then sets the remaining time (on the clock) based on how long step 1 took. Works really well on small and medium potatoes, but sometimes gives an error message on giant potatoes.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Microwave 'ovens' have three uses, reheating leftovers, cooking whole potatoes and, melting chocolate. Anything else is an abomination.

 

[Muse]

Microwave 'ovens' have three uses, reheating leftovers, cooking whole potatoes and, melting chocolate. Anything else is an abomination.

Ah, melting chocolate! I have always done that in a double boiler! Haven't melted chocolate in some years, though. Used to make English toffee, mmmm, good!

I've found that microwaving potatoes takes way long unless I cut them into pieces when raw. I do this for all but the tiniest of potatoes. I often MW sweet potatoes on the same dish at the same time. They cook much faster, so I leave them in bigger pieces. Funny thing is, it's a lot harder to cut the sweet potatoes but they cook way faster.

I mostly use a MW to reheat leftovers, do cook potatoes with some frequency. But I also frequently will heat up fruit that I keep in the fridge. Ripe bananas keep way longer if refrigerated, but I don't like to eat a 40F banana. I'll goose it up to 70-80F. Same with an orange or apple.

Boggles my mind that they have popcorn buttons on all these microwaves. I think it's bad for the oven (almost like running it empty), stinks up the house and when it burns really makes the place smell horrible.

 

[Muse]

I got to thinking and ran some tests to determine how that big 1.5 cu ft Goldstar MW is programmed in its dedicated buttons, and determined that 4 of them are high heat the whole time. The rest have a roller coaster. Sometimes they are high heat and they have periods where it basically turns off. I used my Kill-a-Watt to make the determinations. High is around 1425 watts, off around 30 watts (18 of that is for the bulb, the rest pretty much for the fan). It seems to be at least 40% off for ones not on high all the time. It takes around 6 seconds once turn on in any function to work up to significant energy consumption, if I can believe the Kill-a-Watt. Unless you select a Power level (I haven't figured out how to do that, don't know that I'd bother), it's either on high output or off. The rundown:

Popcorn [2:30] Steady on High
Pizza [1:00] Off maybe 1/2 the time
Frozen Entre [8:00] Off maybe 1/2 the time
Food Plate [2:45] Off maybe 1/2 the time
Baked Goods [0:35] Off maybe 1/2 the time
Beverage [2:10] Steady on High
Casserole [1:50] Off maybe 1/2 the time
Vegetable [1:50] Steady on High
Baked Potato [4:10] Steady on High

It seems to heat fast enough when steady on high. But the system isn't very convenient in terms of setting it up quickly to do what you want. My old Sharp is neat that way: Press the one minute add button N times and it adds N minutes and starts automatically. Same with the 30 second add button. Only way to get 9 minutes of high steady output with the Goldstar is to do this:

Press Time
Press 9
Press 0
Press 0
Press Start

That's four different buttons in a specific sequence. Feh!

Edit: Or you can do tricks that make it a little simpler like...

Press Time
Press 9
Press 9
Press 9
Press Start

For a minute, instead of 1, 0, 0 you press 6,0. There are tricks you can use. I prefer a MW that has add minute and add 30 seconds, one touch and that work during cooking or before cooking.

 

[Fir]

Get a Panasonic inverter microwave.
They can actually cook based on power level not power cycling the magnetron on and off at full power.

For example, a standard 1200W oven at full power has the magnetron running all the time for 10 minutes when you select 10 minutes. The same oven at 50% power will run the magnetron on and off (at 1200W) so its run time is approximately 5 minutes for those 10 minutes.

The inverter oven can actually produce 600W continuously for those 10 minutes. The difference in the end is quite amazing. And healthier.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Get a Panasonic inverter microwave.
They can actually cook based on power level not power cycling the magnetron on and off at full power.

For example, a standard 1200W oven at full power has the magnetron running all the time for 10 minutes when you select 10 minutes. The same oven at 50% power will run the magnetron on and off (at 1200W) so its run time is approximately 5 minutes for those 10 minutes.

The inverter oven can actually produce 600W continuously for those 10 minutes. The difference in the end is quite amazing. And healthier.

OK, I'll bite. How is it healthier?

 

[Fir]

OK, I'll bite. How is it healthier?

Overcooking from excessive heating is bad and in most cases those high wattages aren't needed. Power cycling still heats up food super fast and lets it cool down but the damage is done. Food definitely tastes different between the two.