Microsoft's Peter Moore: Don't focus on Xbox 360 failure, focus on repair

[mugs]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mugs
:laugh:

Saying that it was the right decision to release the 360 was the proper decision may be a stretch... Seems to me like this is NOT a minor problem, considering that it happens frequently and that there are multiple third-party products on the market intended to mitigate the problem. Add to that the fact that there are many people who are not buying a 360 because of the anecdotal evidence that they break frequently and prematurely. Add to that the bad press you get from being unwilling to admit how frequently your product breaks.

Yeah, it was the proper decision. 😕

A full risk analysis was performed (stating this as I'm sure it had to have been, been in corporate world way too long), and this was a proper decision. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack.

For the auto analogy look at Honda/Toyota to see what happens when you can't make a transmission. Does it really affect sales?

I think you are overly optimistic in assuming MS knew about this problem, or that they knew the magnitude of the problem. You have no reason to believe they knew of the problem before release. That is an assumption.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: mugs
I think you are overly optimistic in assuming MS knew about this problem, or that they knew the magnitude of the problem. You have no reason to believe they knew of the problem before release. That is an assumption.

While true, the only one who knows is the Product Manager and QA Engineer. They are the only ones who can answer that question.

I am going under an assumption of normal development procedures. Certain 'bumps' are swept under the rug and analysis is done to see if these 'bumps' are a show stopper or not.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mugs
I think you are overly optimistic in assuming MS knew about this problem, or that they knew the magnitude of the problem. You have no reason to believe they knew of the problem before release. That is an assumption.

While true, the only one who knows is the Product Manager and QA Engineer. They are the only ones who can answer that question.

I am going under an assumption of normal development procedures. Certain 'bumps' are swept under the rug and analysis is done to see if these 'bumps' are a show stopper or not.

Absolutely. :thumbsup:

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mugs
:laugh:

Saying that it was the right decision to release the 360 was the proper decision may be a stretch... Seems to me like this is NOT a minor problem, considering that it happens frequently and that there are multiple third-party products on the market intended to mitigate the problem. Add to that the fact that there are many people who are not buying a 360 because of the anecdotal evidence that they break frequently and prematurely. Add to that the bad press you get from being unwilling to admit how frequently your product breaks.

Yeah, it was the proper decision. 😕

A full risk analysis was performed (stating this as I'm sure it had to have been, been in corporate world way too long), and this was a proper decision. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack.

For the auto analogy look at Honda/Toyota to see what happens when you can't make a transmission. Does it really affect sales?

That's nice.

I'm not buying one due to the failure rates.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Fraggable
What exactly is the cause of all the failures? I hear about the dreaded red circles and all but is it overheating? Bad BIOS or firmware of some kind?

From what I understand, it's from heat causing the motherboard to warp which in turn causes the GPU to break from its lead-free solder connections.

It seems like that's something they might have caught in testing...

Seriously, don't they do testing anymore? How could you not find a problem that common?

I almost bought one tonight, EB Games had some refurbs for $259 with a wireless controller and I figured a refurb would probably have been fixed and maybe more stable than a new one at this point. But I failed to find a game to convince me I needed it.

It's politics.

QA guy raises big stink about a minor problem he found that wouldn't affect many units. A decision (and a proper one) was made to manufacturer it anyway. There is always a failure rate. The cost to fix this (be it time or money) was greater than the potential loss. It's all a business decision.

I'm sure Ford felt the same way about The Pinto....

or their more recent cruise control systems?

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: NFS4
LOL 😛

"I can't comment on failure rates, because it's just not something -- it's a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break, and if we've treated him well and fixed his problem, that's something that we're focused on right now. I'm not going to comment on individual failure rates because I'm shipping in 36 countries and it's a complex business."

LOL!

Peter, Peter, Peter. Sure things break, but not at Xbox 360's rate. I almost got one a while ago and I am glad I didn't get one. This is one of the reasons, but the games on the system do not appeal to me.

 

[kevinthenerd]

The 360 needs a killer app. You know... like a Lotus 123.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
The 360 needs a killer app. You know... like a Lotus 123.

IPTV will make it even more enticing.

 

[NFS4]

Looks like my Xbox 360 is dying AGAIN! I had to send it off for repair about a month ago and got it back. Performed the Spring update yesterday and was well. Tried downloading Forza 2 this morning and left the room. Came back 20 minute later and the screen was frozen. Turned it off and back on again. RRoD. I turned if off again and turned it back on and it was fine.

Started downloading Forza 2 again and set it to power down while downloading. Machine was on when I left. Came back and the machine was off. I assumed it had finished the download and turned completely off. I turned it on and went to see that it was stuck on 0%. Then it froze again. I turned it off and rebooted RRoD.

This is some BS! :|:|

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Fraggable
What exactly is the cause of all the failures? I hear about the dreaded red circles and all but is it overheating? Bad BIOS or firmware of some kind?

From what I understand, it's from heat causing the motherboard to warp which in turn causes the GPU to break from its lead-free solder connections.

Isn't that the same problem the Apple LISA had? Why can't microsoft stop copying apple!

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Fraggable
What exactly is the cause of all the failures? I hear about the dreaded red circles and all but is it overheating? Bad BIOS or firmware of some kind?

From what I understand, it's from heat causing the motherboard to warp which in turn causes the GPU to break from its lead-free solder connections.

That's pretty much it. The "X-clamps" MS uses to hold down the heatsinks cause the board to bend slightly. Couple that with a terrible fan shroud design which does little to remove the heat from those sinks, you get desoldered connections.

I recently took apart my friend's 360 with the 3 red rings and fixed it with about $5 in parts from Lowe's. Remounted the heatsinks with regular machine screws and heated up the board to reconnect the solder points (by turning the system on w/o the fans installed for a couple minutes).

Then, I took some aluminum tape and covered the tops of the heatsinks so that the air being pulled by the fans was over the entire heatsink, not just one side of it. Ever pull out a game disc from the 360 and find it burning hot? That's because the GPU heatsink isn't being cooled.

After the fix, I ran the system for 2 hours and the game disc was barely above room temperature. The heat exhausted from the fans was also very warm (a good thing).

SUMMARY: Poor heatsink and fan shroud design - recipe for failure!

 

[vi edit]

That's like Mercede's Benz saying...

"Hey...sorry your $60,000 car is a hunk of crap and has it's own parking spot in our service bay....but at least we have great coffee and free donuts while you wait!"

 

[dwell]

F*ck him and f*ck the 360. I want to buy one but there's no way I am doing it until the go 65nm and that is proven to work for months. The 360 is the sorriest POS from a design and assembly perspective. Everyone I know has had at least one die. $400 for a console that eats it in a year? What is this world coming to?

 

[Phokus]

Sony should start advertising their PS3 this way: "Hey at least our system doesn't frikken *MELT*"

:laugh:

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Chris
F*ck him and f*ck the 360. I want to buy one but there's no way I am doing it until the go 65nm and that is proven to work for months. The 360 is the sorriest POS from a design and assembly perspective. Everyone I know has had at least one die. $400 for a console that eats it in a year? What is this world coming to?

It's really pretty sad. With about $0.10 worth of aluminum tape the problem could probably be fixed.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: Chris
F*ck him and f*ck the 360. I want to buy one but there's no way I am doing it until the go 65nm and that is proven to work for months. The 360 is the sorriest POS from a design and assembly perspective. Everyone I know has had at least one die. $400 for a console that eats it in a year? What is this world coming to?

It's really pretty sad. With about $0.10 worth of aluminum tape the problem could probably be fixed.

10 cents? You want to bankrupt microsoft or something? 😛

 

[purbeast0]

Text

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: Chris
F*ck him and f*ck the 360. I want to buy one but there's no way I am doing it until the go 65nm and that is proven to work for months. The 360 is the sorriest POS from a design and assembly perspective. Everyone I know has had at least one die. $400 for a console that eats it in a year? What is this world coming to?

It's really pretty sad. With about $0.10 worth of aluminum tape the problem could probably be fixed.

10 cents? You want to bankrupt microsoft or something? 😛

They can do that themselves! How many months has the Xbox division been in the red, all of them I think? 😀

 

[kyzen]

I've had a 360 for about a year now with no issues (knock on wood), love it... when I play it. My biggest issue is the lack of appealing games. PS3 is worse, and I can't even find a Wii to formulate an opinion on.

I think the heating issues might also have something to do with the location of your 360... if it's in a small unventilated cabinet, yeah, it's bound to get a little hot. Mine is sitting atop my desk though, where it gets plenty of ambient cool air.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
Text

J's gone J-Macian mon!

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/jallard/dreds_lg.jpg

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: kyzen
I've had a 360 for about a year now with no issues (knock on wood), love it... when I play it. My biggest issue is the lack of appealing games. PS3 is worse, and I can't even find a Wii to formulate an opinion on.

I think the heating issues might also have something to do with the location of your 360... if it's in a small unventilated cabinet, yeah, it's bound to get a little hot. Mine is sitting atop my desk though, where it gets plenty of ambient cool air.

Mine is sitting pretty close to a vent in the floor that is blowing out cold air from the central A/C system. There should be no excuse for it croaking.

 

[ElFenix]

definitely waiting for the shrink + quiet fans + quiet drive

 

[NFS4]

Hmm, seems to be working now. I wonder if the RRoD I were getting this time were from the initial failed download of Forza 2? I've heard of people getting a RRoD from corrupt data on the HDD.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hmm, seems to be working now. I wonder if the RRoD I were getting this time were from the initial failed download of Forza 2? I've heard of people getting a RRoD from corrupt data on the HDD.

give me my tissue back!

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hmm, seems to be working now. I wonder if the RRoD I were getting this time were from the initial failed download of Forza 2? I've heard of people getting a RRoD from corrupt data on the HDD.

You're on borrowed time my friend.