Microsoft unleashes Havok

[Nemesis 1]

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/...rosoft-unleashes-havok

Thats plus 3 for Havok. Intel/AMD/ Microsoft. NV stands alone Software phycsics is gaining MO. I admitt I admire NV on their stand. But I wouldn't bump heads with these 3 over physics. NOW if it was about Raytracing . That would be a good stand against everybody. All ya need is one good game to change it all . Anything that improves IQ is an instant winner . when it comes to VIDEO. Performance is great. True . Features are great True . But when it comes to GPU's the picture or image on your screen is the number 1 factor for the majority.

Software rendering software physics It's a software world and X86 makes it so much better.

I don't care what company it is Intel ATI NV who ever shows me the best IQ gets gets my money . So even tho I like the idea of say larrabbee if IQ isn't there I won't buy . Unless it offers something really great . But considering how intel is pushing raytracing I just don't see IQ as a problem YET.

Now for me the choice between Physics and RT is a no brainer . I take RT first. But can you imgine trying to do hardware physics and raytracing on existing GPU's we get what 2fps. I know intel isn't even going to try and make larrabee do ll that work . I am sure ATI is smarter than that .
No the only ones who seem to think they can do it all on the GPU is NV . Good luck with that. NV has no sli on nehalem without the reactor on board. NV will have NO AVX EVER. . So in 2010 larrabbee combined with sandy bridge with be able to do physics / RT. Using the Full platform resources rather than just the GPU . So intel has really thought this thing out . Actually the more I look at what Intel is doing . They thought of everthing .

Even tho AMD/ATI and Intel can use each others cards. Larrabbee wont run as fast on AMD system as intel with AVX on sandy . Its about a 40% performance gain with AVX.

Nvidia will never ever get sli without reactor(unless they give it away ). No one is buying. NV will never get AVX ever.

 

[aka1nas]

Meh. Typical misleading Inquirer reporting. This is just Microsoft's games division using Havok across some of their titles. That doesn't really have any implications about their other divisions doing something interesting with it, like basing a DX physics API off of it.

 

[ginfest]

Another ill-disguised anti-NV posting. The OP and a few others I won't mention should just post once a day "I hate NV" , as all his posts reference anything negative, although always unsubstanciated
It's actually funny in a way, Intel was always one of the great evils in computing for their methods against AMD, not they are the great hero who will destroy NV

 

[OCGuy]

I think the INQ must get half of thier hits because some of the people on this site.

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: ginfest
Another ill-disguised anti-NV posting. The OP and a few others I won't mention should just post once a day "I hate NV" , as all his posts reference anything negative, although always unsubstanciated
It's actually funny in a way, Intel was always one of the great evils in computing for their methods against AMD, not they are the great hero who will destroy NV

Now you are Anti-Intel. Believe me, there is no such thing as hating a company without reason...there must have been causes before they started writing anti-nv articles that really pissed them off.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: ginfest
Another ill-disguised anti-NV posting. The OP and a few others I won't mention should just post once a day "I hate NV" , as all his posts reference anything negative, although always unsubstanciated
It's actually funny in a way, Intel was always one of the great evils in computing for their methods against AMD, not they are the great hero who will destroy NV

Now you are Anti-Intel. Believe me, there is no such thing as hating a company without reason...there must have been causes before they started writing anti-nv articles that really pissed them off.

NV will not send the Inq engineering samples or let them into exclusive press exhibits, because they do not consider them a real news outlet and will not sign an NDA.

They truly hate NV, and it has nothing to do with the products.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: ginfest
destroy greedy, dishonest, arrogant NV

Fixed...

Can't wait when three of them will step on the evil n...

 

[SunnyD]

Wow... this thread went off topic real fast. Oh well... what it does mean is that there's definitely more weight thrown behind Havok officially now, especially considering this is going to permeate both the PC and XBox (the latter being powered by ATI...)

As I said in a different thread, I'm betting we'll see Havok on ATI sooner rather than later now.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Wow... this thread went off topic real fast. Oh well... what it does mean is that there's definitely more weight thrown behind Havok officially now, especially considering this is going to permeate both the PC and XBox (the latter being powered by ATI...)

As I said in a different thread, I'm betting we'll see Havok on ATI sooner rather than later now.

Hope so, nice to talk about something else apart from Nvidia's Physx,anyway with Intel,AMD,Microsoft behind it, it has some serious weight and muscle.

 

[ginfest]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest
destroy greedy, dishonest NV

Fixed...

Can't wait when three of them will step on the evil n...

Suggest you peruse the CPU forums, the same folks now evangelizing Intel are the ones who used your terms to describe them each and every time they put a hurtin' on AMD
And no, to the other poster, I'm not anti-Intel, I use what works best and Intel has generally has had that product

 

[Nemesis 1]

Wanta bet. We have just entered the

soap opera era of computing .

Heres what we had up tile now . Ati /NV battling it out over the pc and consol markets.

MS controlling DX and features .


Like it or not With intels entering the scene with this type of GPUCPU changes everthing if it works out.

MS is no longer in control . Intel doesn't need them and MS knows. Also the Fact that MS is the most powereful software company on earth witch way do ya really think ms is bending .

This is not good for NV. Look Sony /MS/ Nintendo all have to start on there next consols . MS leaning towards Havok doesn't look good NV xbox4. I am pretty sure Intel doesn't want tp play with MS so that leaves ATI MS . That works.

I don't think Intel will play with sony either . I say intel does nintendo and Apple . Go look at the leaked specs of sandy . Its a scary thing it is . Is way differant than nehalem

Sandy bridge and larrabee if larrabee works is a perfect consol already.

 

[taltamir]

isn't physX an open standard now? with amd and nvidia engineers helping ngo port it to AMD? and the ability to integrate it into your game for free?

Anyways, physX and havok do not compete, they are not even in the same class.
havok: CPU accelerated physics engine (every game ever made had to have a physics engine, they typically suck, havok, like UE3, takes most of the work out of that)
physX: CPU + PPU + GPU accelerated physics engine with first order physics capability and other very advanced capability that demands advanced software.

It makes perfect sense for companies aiming at the larger market, and not at tech dominence, to use havok. But since havok does not use any GPU acceleration then it is no different then them buying an AI pack. It does not in any way shape or form compete with physX.

Also, this is the inq... so it might not even be true.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest
destroy greedy, dishonest, arrogant NV

Fixed...

Can't wait when three of them will step on the evil n...

Suggest you peruse the CPU forums, the same folks now evangelizing Intel are the ones who used your terms to describe them each and every time they put a hurtin' on AMD
And no, to the other poster, I'm not anti-Intel, I use what works best and Intel has generally has had that product

Yes no one is perfect but for the most part others play fair unlike the evil n, creating their own standards (or should I say trying) and not following the whole industry. I bought nvidia since TNT days and every generation thereafter and never understood the meaning of Nvidiot, until now...

 

[Modelworks]

If it were between havok and physx I would choose havok.
The reason being I have used it and seen what it can do in 3dsmax.
Havok has been developed for much longer and is a more mature api.

The disadvantage of course is that Havok is cpu based .

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
MS is no longer in control . Intel doesn't need them and MS knows. Also the Fact that MS is the most powereful software company on earth witch way do ya really think ms is bending.

What are you talking about? Windows is more important to computer users than the CPU inside. AMD would be very happy if that ever happened. Your really reading to much into this just like you did with the HYDRA engine.

 

[chizow]

This is one of the rare times where it actually pays off to read the Inq article and completely ignore the associated OP commentary. The article is about Microsoft's insignificant dev studios deciding to use Havok physics in upcoming titles. If it were news of MS integrating Havok into DX11 and leaving out support for PhysX it might hurt NV but as it is now, all NV products are 100% compatible with Havok. The same cannot be said of hardware/GPU accelerated PhysX although it looks like NV is willing to take the high road and advance gaming by making it open standard.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is 0% chance ATI cards will support any hardware/GPU accelerated Havok physics before Intel supports it on their own GPU/hardware. First chance of that happening is Larrabee, so we're looking 2009/2010.

 

[ginfest]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest
destroy greedy, dishonest, arrogant NV

Fixed...

Can't wait when three of them will step on the evil n...

Suggest you peruse the CPU forums, the same folks now evangelizing Intel are the ones who used your terms to describe them each and every time they put a hurtin' on AMD
And no, to the other poster, I'm not anti-Intel, I use what works best and Intel has generally has had that product

Yes no one is perfect but for the most part others play fair unlike the evil n, creating their own standards (or should I say trying) and not following the whole industry. I bought nvidia since TNT days and every generation thereafter and never understood the meaning of Nvidiot, until now...

Let's see, I read the same pre-launch hype, then the reviews, then bought one of the first 4870's Installed the Cats+HF and the 3 games that I was playing, all had problems. Not to mention the fan "fix", excessive noise and heat
So the 4870 wasn't the solution for me, and I went to an NV card. And that makes it ok for you to hurl an "insult" with a wink and a nod. Because i have a product from the evil n in my machine
Of course NV's track record for what you term "evil" is similar to both Intel and MS. You know the "greedy, dishonest, arrogant" part
I see you don't have the courage of your convictions, using the Intel and MS stuff eh
I'll give you a friendly tip, divest yourself of all the "evil" ones and your credibility will soar

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
MS is no longer in control . Intel doesn't need them and MS knows. Also the Fact that MS is the most powereful software company on earth witch way do ya really think ms is bending.

What are you talking about? Windows is more important to computer users than the CPU inside. AMD would be very happy if that ever happened. Your really reading to much into this just like you did with the HYDRA engine.

Were not talking about users . Were talking about MS using its muscle to push hardware companies around. Larrabee can add any new feature without a new DX that changes who has leaverage. Why would MS DO Xbox 3 and not make it DX10. There can only be one ans . that would increase MS profits.

Larrabee is the biggest threat MS has had . In so far as removing MS iron grip on DX.

A perfect example is DX10 specs were changed Because NV couldn't do it . I say to bad put the spec out anyway . Than it can be used. But Whats worse is that MS helped NV spread the lie that NV has unified shaders which is a lie. IF NV had unified shaders it wouldn't be running away from DX10.1 wHich requires unified shaders.

SO I say screw them both. Actually the best partner for Xbox 4 is NV. Maybe NS and NV working together could get cuda running more apps quicker.

We've talked with you before about purposely spreading factually incorrect information; it screws with the new members and has to stop. Accordingly, please enjoy the next week off.

-ViRGE

 

[OCGuy]

What is with all this "Evil" crap. I think some people have watched too many cartoons where there the bad guy is some "Evil" corporation that is trying to take over the world.

All these companies answer to the stock holders. They all try and make a profit for said stock holders. Just because one company is better at doing that than another, doesnt make them "evil."

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest
destroy greedy, dishonest, arrogant NV

Fixed...

Can't wait when three of them will step on the evil n...

Suggest you peruse the CPU forums, the same folks now evangelizing Intel are the ones who used your terms to describe them each and every time they put a hurtin' on AMD
And no, to the other poster, I'm not anti-Intel, I use what works best and Intel has generally has had that product

Yes no one is perfect but for the most part others play fair unlike the evil n, creating their own standards (or should I say trying) and not following the whole industry. I bought nvidia since TNT days and every generation thereafter and never understood the meaning of Nvidiot, until now...

Let's see, I read the same pre-launch hype, then the reviews, then bought one of the first 4870's Installed the Cats+HF and the 3 games that I was playing, all had problems. Not to mention the fan "fix", excessive noise and heat
So the 4870 wasn't the solution for me, and I went to an NV card. And that makes it ok for you to hurl an "insult" with a wink and a nod. Because i have a product from the evil n in my machine
Of course NV's track record for what you term "evil" is similar to both Intel and MS. You know the "greedy, dishonest, arrogant" part
I see you don't have the courage of your convictions, using the Intel and MS stuff eh
I'll give you a friendly tip, divest yourself of all the "evil" ones and your credibility will soar

I don't see your point,I went from Nvidia to 4870 card and ALL my games run fine(try 22 so far tested in my Vista x64),no drivers issues at all in fact Nvidia drivers gave me more issues on uninstalling even with Driver Sweeper in safe mode I still had 3 Nvidia .dll files trying to load at startup after reboot(Regedit fixed that problem),I guess Nvidia need to work on their uninstalling method in Vista x64..


For the record my 4870 is quiet even in gaming with no fan hack,heat factor is not an issue and is blown out of proportion as always.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: chizow
This is one of the rare times where it actually pays off to read the Inq article and completely ignore the associated OP commentary. The article is about Microsoft's insignificant dev studios deciding to use Havok physics in upcoming titles.

It was even less interesting than that as MS was already using Havok for several titles. The entire article is basically about MS buying what amounts to a site license. :roll:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: chizow
This is one of the rare times where it actually pays off to read the Inq article and completely ignore the associated OP commentary. The article is about Microsoft's insignificant dev studios deciding to use Havok physics in upcoming titles. If it were news of MS integrating Havok into DX11 and leaving out support for PhysX it might hurt NV but as it is now, all NV products are 100% compatible with Havok. The same cannot be said of hardware/GPU accelerated PhysX although it looks like NV is willing to take the high road and advance gaming by making it open standard.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is 0% chance ATI cards will support any hardware/GPU accelerated Havok physics before Intel supports it on their own GPU/hardware. First chance of that happening is Larrabee, so we're looking 2009/2010.

What your saying about NV sounds good . Taking the high road and all. But we seen what NV did with sli. We seen NV get the Intel chipset . We seen NV screw intel .

NV has know concept of what the high road is . They screwed intel . Intel is just treating NV the way NV treats all others. THE game AC . NV screwed up bad . We all know what happen but no proof. AMD knows the gaming community knows . With intel enteringthe Scene . NV strangle hold on the game makers is at its end .Its about time.

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Were not talking about users . Were talking about MS using its muscle to push hardware companies around. Larrabee can add any new feature without a new DX that changes who has leaverage. Why would MS DO Xbox 3 and not make it DX10. There can only be one ans . that would increase MS profits.

Larrabee is the biggest threat MS has had . In so far as removing MS iron grip on DX.

A perfect example is DX10 specs were changed Because NV couldn't do it . I say to bad put the spec out anyway . Than it can be used. But Whats worse is that MS helped NV spread the lie that NV has unified shaders which is a lie. IF NV had unified shaders it wouldn't be running away from DX10.1 wHich requires unified shaders.

SO I say screw them both. Actually the best partner for Xbox 4 is NV. Maybe NS and NV working together could get cuda running more apps quicker.

It's always about users. More users use windows so naturally DX is the choice for developers. If everyone was to switch to linux tommorow opengl would be next in line. That said MS doesn't bend to no one, including intel.

The reason Xbox 360 isn't DX10 is because it was a very early version of R600. DX9 was simply a better choice at the time.

Larrabee has a long way to go. It has to 1st prove that it can play very hard in the DX front, before people will leave DX behind. I seriously doubt that's going to happen, being Larrabee is going to have to software emulate DX, which should slow down the true hardware performance of Larrabee.

Nvidia work with MS on the next xbox :laugh:, come on. MS got hammered with the 1st xbox, because of Nvidia. I serious doubt MS will deal with Nvidia ever again on the console front.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: chizow
This is one of the rare times where it actually pays off to read the Inq article and completely ignore the associated OP commentary. The article is about Microsoft's insignificant dev studios deciding to use Havok physics in upcoming titles. If it were news of MS integrating Havok into DX11 and leaving out support for PhysX it might hurt NV but as it is now, all NV products are 100% compatible with Havok. The same cannot be said of hardware/GPU accelerated PhysX although it looks like NV is willing to take the high road and advance gaming by making it open standard.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is 0% chance ATI cards will support any hardware/GPU accelerated Havok physics before Intel supports it on their own GPU/hardware. First chance of that happening is Larrabee, so we're looking 2009/2010.

What your saying about NV sounds good . Taking the high road and all. But we seen what NV did with sli. We seen NV get the Intel chipset . We seen NV screw intel .

Why do you care if 2 mega corporations screw each other? Would you care if Ford screwed Chevy?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: ginfest
destroy greedy, dishonest, arrogant NV

Fixed...

Can't wait when three of them will step on the evil n...

Suggest you peruse the CPU forums, the same folks now evangelizing Intel are the ones who used your terms to describe them each and every time they put a hurtin' on AMD
And no, to the other poster, I'm not anti-Intel, I use what works best and Intel has generally has had that product

Yes no one is perfect but for the most part others play fair unlike the evil n, creating their own standards (or should I say trying) and not following the whole industry. I bought nvidia since TNT days and every generation thereafter and never understood the meaning of Nvidiot, until now...

Let's see, I read the same pre-launch hype, then the reviews, then bought one of the first 4870's Installed the Cats+HF and the 3 games that I was playing, all had problems. Not to mention the fan "fix", excessive noise and heat
So the 4870 wasn't the solution for me, and I went to an NV card. And that makes it ok for you to hurl an "insult" with a wink and a nod. Because i have a product from the evil n in my machine
Of course NV's track record for what you term "evil" is similar to both Intel and MS. You know the "greedy, dishonest, arrogant" part
I see you don't have the courage of your convictions, using the Intel and MS stuff eh
I'll give you a friendly tip, divest yourself of all the "evil" ones and your credibility will soar

Remember when I told you I to would buy a 280 so I did . I had to RMA the first 2 and the third won has heat issues. So whats your problem . :laugh: