Microsoft to Modify Windows XP Product-Activation Policy

[stash]

I thought that end-users of those major OEMs would have those keys, to re-activate if they so need to, because they of course don't have access to whatever corporate-OEM-level mass pre-activation key was used. Why else would the end-users of those OEM systems be given the COA with those activation keys on them?

Sorry, yes I mis-typed. I think (but I haven't confirmed this) if you use the key on the sticker to reinstall, you will need to call to activate. If you use the reinstall disk that comes with the machine, you won't need to activate at all.

 

[user1234]

"reinstall" disk ?!?!?!?! wtf r u talking about ? dell and ibm don't even give you a regular install disk, let alone a "re-install" disk if such a thing exists. And anyway, how would this avoid activation after a fresh install (not simply repairing an existing installation) ? I created install disks from installation files backed up on the hard drive, and even slip-streamed SP2 into them, but you always need to activate it after a fresh install, no matter which disk you use. Get your facts straight before posting more misinformation here.

btw, I agree with VirtualLarry's post - good one this time (for a change)

 

[stash]

I created install disks from installation files backed up on the hard drive, and even slip-streamed SP2 into them, but you always need to activate it after a fresh install, no matter which disk you use. Get your facts straight before posting more misinformation here

This isn't misinformation. The OEMs should give you a restore disk with your machine that is SLP'ed and doesn't require activation. If they don't, that's something you need to take up with the manufacturer you purchased the computer from.

If you reinstalled without using the restore CD, you would need to activate, and would probably need to call. I can't test this myself though, since I don't own any machines that I didn't build.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: user1234
"reinstall" disk ?!?!?!?! wtf r u talking about ? dell and ibm don't even give you a regular install disk, let alone a "re-install" disk if such a thing exists. And anyway, how would this avoid activation after a fresh install (not simply repairing an existing installation) ? I created install disks from installation files backed up on the hard drive, and even slip-streamed SP2 into them, but you always need to activate it after a fresh install, no matter which disk you use. Get your facts straight before posting more misinformation here.

btw, I agree with VirtualLarry's post - good one this time (for a change)

Likewise, actually. :thumbsup:

I agree with you about the re-install or restore media, I thought that most of the OEM systems these days didn't ship with media at all, just the COA/sticker? That you have to request/pay-for media from the mfg if you need to re-install. (Although, I think that some of the OEMs might ship you a restore disc, that has an additional "OEM setup" .DLL included, that scans for a BIOS string/serial-number in the OEM rig, and uses that as the basis for the OEM installation key, perhaps, if it doesn't prompt the user for one. So that would also explain how they could ship mass-duplicated SLP'ed restore CDs, and still have systems that would show a unique product-id after installation. That's also why those CDs are "BIOS-locked" to systems from that specific OEM, and worthless otherwise. Perhaps those are the CD/COA combos being "stolen" here, the CDs dumped, and the COAs being re-sold? Hmm.)

 

[Raduque]

This is getting more interesting by the minute. I am gonna do a test with my HP "restore/reinstall" CD, whereupon I put it in my backup rig and try to install WinXP Home. Please note that the CD I'm trying with, appears to be a full Windows XP Home install CD. It's labled "Operating System CD" and the Windows Setup menu comes up when you put it in a computer, in addition to being bootable. I'm going to try and install Windows XP Home with the key that shows up in the "XP Product Key Viewer" (Don't ask me for this. Google knows all.) I will get back to you all on the results. I realize this is kinda OT, but semi-relevant to the whole "preactivated" issue.

 

[Raduque]

OK, that didn't take long. Got it instaled, and it is asking me to activate. The key is also different from the key installed on the laptop. It's also 100% different from the key on the laptop's sticker. The rig I installed it on, is not an HP computer, nor does it have any HP parts in it, at all.

Edit: Tried to activate, told me the key was "unauthorized", not invalid, but "unauthorized" and asked me for the key on the sticker on my computer.

 

[stash]

It isn't surprising you were asked to activate. The CD that comes with the machine will only work with that machine (or maybe any HP).

Here's some more info about when you will be asked to activate, and when you will need to call: http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000497.html

 

[user1234]

It's interesting to read about the System Locked Pre-activation technology, but I really don't think it's being widely used in the real world. The technology is supposed to avoid having to activate, but it requires SLP enabled bios and SLP enabled install CD. I would guess that the machine specific activation files would be stored in the bios, and the SLP enabled CD just knows how to access them, so the CD is not machine specific because that would cause problems if you lose the CD (you can't lose the bios though). Anyway, since most OEMs (read: Dell , IBM, HP) don't even ship any installation CDs, I really don't think too many people are using this "technology". And anyway, tainting the bios with windows-specific information seems like a gross hack to me, and will never work with custom built system using off the shelf parts (admittedly, that's not the case for OEM machines). So in the end it will just mean a lot of phone re-activations for these oem machine owners, which is just another reason not to buy from them.

 

[stash]

The CD is machine specific, or at least OEM specific. If you use a CD other than the one that came with your machine, you will most likely be asked to activate. If you use the CD that comes with the computer, you will not be asked to activate.

Anyway, since most OEMs (read: Dell , IBM, HP) don't even ship any installation CDs, I really don't think too many people are using this "technology".

Where are you getting this information? Dell states on their website that all machines ship with an XP CD. Don't know about other OEMs.

 

[user1234]

i'm getting this info from my friend who just bought a dell and said he got no install cd, and my own thinkpad came with no install cd, and when I called ibm about it, the csr told me that he has an hp machine which he got with no install cd. So I think it's the common practice nowadays. But most of these vendor's machines contain either a recovery partition and/or a "i386" directory which contains the windows installation files and can be used to create an install cd (which is what I did when I needed to re-install). Anyway, I already mentioned that you don't really need to reactivate if you backup the activation files from your activated windows partition, and then copy them into the newly installed partition. This is an important workaround for you people that complain about the phone re-activations, and it doesn't depend on the questionable pre-activated SLP feature.

 

[Raduque]

My HP laptop came with both an install CD (pure windows installation CD, i succesfully installed it on my backup rig, read my above posts), a dir on the HD in \windows containing all the windows setup files, and a 2nd CD containing all the pre-installed programs in a universal install file.

 

[Tom]

Every Dell I've dealt with(about 5) comes with some sort of XP install disk, either the real thing or recover.

And the new HP/Compaq notebook i just bought does too.

The internet would be a lot more useful if people didn't present second hand information and stuff they heard about, as facts.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Tom
Every Dell I've dealt with(about 5) comes with some sort of XP install disk, either the real thing or recover. And the new HP/Compaq notebook i just bought does too.
The internet would be a lot more useful if people didn't present second hand information and stuff they heard about, as facts.

MS's new 'No Media' policy for OEMs

Another interesting PA/GW validation link

I have a fully legal version (came with my Toshiba notebook) and it fails the process. After failing the process, I go to the page where you can enter your 25 character code and then select the option to use another option. This then asks for the brand and where I bought the system. This results in a valid code being installed on the system. So, not exactly the most secure process. Even if you have a copy of XP just enter a brand like Toshiba and a store like Amazon.com and the key will be installed on your system.

Most intriguing - it appears that by taking part in the "Genuine Windows" download-validation process, using IE, that the ActiveX control used, will actually change the P-A key installed on the system! That's far more than MS has said, that it is "only checking" the key, isn't it. What else is MS really hiding. Hmm... Another comment:

These new systems have XP with code that locks to the BIOS or motherboard so it is incredibly difficult to transfer the OS from one computer to the next. Most of these don't have activation code, and thus nothing to validate. Thus, most of the people who would likely go to these sites will fail the initial test, and be asked for the product key.

That's actually interesting, and suggests that MS is using a two-pronged strategy here, and that the newly-introduced "Genuine Windows Advantage" / "Download Validation" process, in conjunction with the above comment about that process actually changing the OEM P-A key installed, in conjunction with the issues with MS disabling internet-based P-A for those keys bundled with SLP'ed OEM systems - sounds like a concerted effort to flush out those "potentially rogue" keys from the market entirely. This paints a very interesting overall picture here, one that you wouldn't see from any one of the individual parts. I wonder if anyone in the media has picked this up yet.

Also, here's a fellow that claims that Dell and Sony systems still require end-user activation:

If you know of any specific manufacturer's that build systems that require no activation, please follow up with who they are as I'm curious with HOW they've installed XP. The two majors that I've worked with recently, Dell and Sony, are still activated.

 

[stash]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These new systems have XP with code that locks to the BIOS or motherboard so it is incredibly difficult to transfer the OS from one computer to the next. Most of these don't have activation code, and thus nothing to validate. Thus, most of the people who would likely go to these sites will fail the initial test, and be asked for the product key.

This person doesn't have any idea what he is talking about. I don't even know what an activation code is. Genuine Advantage checks for the following things: OEM product key, PC manufacturer, OS version, PID/SID, BIOS info and BIOS MD5 checksum.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I was assuming that by "activation code", that they were referring to their "key" on the COA, which as noted in this thread prior is not used for the initial factory activation of the OEM OSes, those are SLP'ed instead, but the OEM still provides you with the COA and key in case the OS needs to be re-installed using different (non SLP'ed) OS install media. I was suggesting that the "GWA / download-validation" process would: 1) recognize those particular OEM systems (installed using SLP) that are being flagged/investigated by MS, 2) prompt for the "proper" key on their COA, and then the validation ActiveX control (apparently, according to the description), would accept and then re-write the installed OS product-key/product-id using a newly-generated one, after validating using the key off of the COA.

In hindsight though, that doesn't make a lot of sense, if MS is trying to shut down those keys on those OEM COAs, and they have been disabled for online activation, why would the download validation tool accept them as valid, and why would it re-write them with a different valid key and id? Unless to flag them for the future? Ah! At that point, they could potentially confirm that the COA w/key was not "stolen", because the ActiveX control could potentially have access to query the BIOS for OEM/SLP info, while at the same time checking the validity, and the valid association, with the key on the COA as belonging properly to that OEM, and not having been resold off to some non-matching-SLP'ed system. (Aka a white-box build using that "stolen" COA instead of the original OEM box.) By re-writing the product-key/product-id of the currently-installed OS, that would protect it (now that it has been confirmed as a validated OEM system) from being invalidated when the entire block of keys on those "stolen" COA certs are eventually blacklisted.

I may have mis-interpreted this comment though: "This results in a valid code being installed on the system. So, not exactly the most secure process. Even if you have a copy of XP just enter a brand like Toshiba and a store like Amazon.com and the key will be installed on your system." I thought that the person was referring to the installed product-id code, but it may have been referring to the "download validation code" instead, and suggesting a method of "validating" for downloads, even without a valid product-key available to punch in.

I still think that MS could easily start to block out any and all product-keys/product-ids if they wanted to using their "download validation" scheme, which I'm certain is their plan. If they get any of the legislation that they've been pushing for passed, at the state level, they could easily remotely-disable your OS too, legally, if they feel that you've somehow violated their arbitrary licensing guidelines. (Which can change at their behest, even after your purchase of a legal and legitimate OS license.) Hopefully that will never be allowed to happen.

 

[mhillary]

awesome!!!