ok..about the dr dos thing. i think microsoft had a right to make windows 3.1 incompatible w/ dr dos or whateevr(too lazy to look up whatever it is) and the USER had a choice not to upgrade to win3.1 and keep their dr dos. just the fact that won3.1 was better (whatever reason people switched) would be good enough
Sure you can! You make a profit by selling your own hardware, not from piggybacking on someone else's brand name.
Originally posted by: lirion
I bet there's an entry in the manual that goes "For best performance, use only blah, blah, blah". There always is
So why is it illegal?
You can sell it elsewhere. Opening the package does not constitute usage. You have the option to do whatever you want with it until you install it - then you're bound by it. Besides... that's store policy, not MS's fault. :| So... those "grab bag" giveaways or "mystery prize" things should be illegal as well?
nik
My comment regarding the car-argument: It doesn't matter if Ford or anyone else rules that dealerships can only sell Fords! Why not? Because Ford (or any other car-manufacturer) does not have a monopoly! If dealerships don't like Fords terms, they can go elsewhere. If OEM's don't like MS's terms, they can't go elsewhere, because they are doing business with a monopoly!
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MS didn't make win 3.11 incompatible with DR-DOS. in fact, it was 100% compatible. what they did was have a warning pop up every time you used win 3.11 on dr dos saying that it wouldn't work properly, when it did. MS lied through their teeth about it.
oh, and then theres MS's contracts where they didn't charge for the number of windows licenses shipped, but for how many computers were shipped. so companies had to pay MS if they shipped a windows license or not with the machine.
Wait.. what? I'm saying that I'm in the business of building and selling complete-package computers, not just the hardware. Customers come to me because they want a computer that they can use right away when they boot it up, and not have to worry about all the details.
How many successful hardware-only companies you know that doesn't have the support of Microsoft?
You really see nothing wrong with MS's behavior in that case?!?!?! There was a better product available (remember: better products are a good thing for consumers!). MS was unable to compete, so they sabotaged their product on purpose to be incomptatible with competitors product (in order to kill it/reduce consumer-choice). You really have no problem when monopoly kills competitors products? How exactly does the elimination of better software help you as a consumer?
OEMs do have a choice. They can bundle their product with another operating system, or none at all. If enough OEMs did that there could be no monopoly.
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that too. not only are they a monopoly such that if an OEM decided not to use their product that OEM would likely die quickly, they also have far more strict contracts about what exactly the OEM can do. such as not being able to ship a system without windows. or at least having to pay MS for a windows copy per computer, regardless of whether a copy of windows was shipped or not.
Whats funny is most of the people here who dog on MS, use MS products...lol How Ironic is that?
You know you can sit around on a BBS and complain all you want, but what are you really doing to help? Microsoft is just a big business trying to make money. Sure they use wrongful tactics to keep their product competative and in the spotlight. But really doesn't it come down to what the customer wants and buys? If the customer didn't WANT MS, then Dell wouldn't have to worry about selling RedHat or any other version of Linux.
The real problem lies in the fact that there is no other "User-friendly" OS on the market and Microsoft has a strangle-hold on the market. I can give my parents a Windows XP or 2000 disk and they can install it in a few clicks. It'd be impossible for them to install and use Linux/Unix. I mean, what does it matter if Microsoft uses tactics, no one in their right mind is going to buy Linux anyway? There's a REASON Dell and every other vender uses MS and MS has a strangle hold on them. Don't blame MS, blame yourself, the company you work for, your parents, your friends.
I mean when you see "Lindows" and then Linux versions coming out like this
http://static.kdenews.org/mirrors/qwertz/kde31alpha/
Obviously Microsoft is doing something right and that's what the world wants and needs. All the while you are sitting here on a BBS just acting like baffoons instead of educating the people around you on how to use Linux and introducing it to them. And do you why you don't? It's too time consuming and hard. When something comes along that presents a true threat....then we can talk. Otherwise who cares? I use MS products and i'm happy with them.
You know you can sit around on a BBS and complain all you want, but what are you really doing to help? Microsoft is just a big business trying to make money. Sure they use wrongful tactics to keep their product competative and in the spotlight. But really doesn't it come down to what the customer wants and buys? If the customer didn't WANT MS, then Dell wouldn't have to worry about selling RedHat or any other version of Linux.
The real problem lies in the fact that there is no other "User-friendly" OS on the market and Microsoft has a strangle-hold on the market. I can give my parents a Windows XP or 2000 disk and they can install it in a few clicks. It'd be impossible for them to install and use Linux/Unix. I mean, what does it matter if Microsoft uses tactics, no one in their right mind is going to buy Linux anyway? There's a REASON Dell and every other vender uses MS and MS has a strangle hold on them. Don't blame MS, blame yourself, the company you work for, your parents, your friends.
I mean when you see "Lindows" and then Linux versions coming out like this
http://static.kdenews.org/mirrors/qwertz/kde31alpha/
Obviously Microsoft is doing something right and that's what the world wants and needs. All the while you are sitting here on a BBS just acting like baffoons instead of educating the people around you on how to use Linux and introducing it to them. And do you why you don't? It's too time consuming and hard. When something comes along that presents a true threat....then we can talk. Otherwise who cares? I use MS products and i'm happy with them.
I don't expect my MS products to be compatible with all the software I own. I don't have a problem.
But they don't. Just for Dell, Microsoft isn't allowing them to sell a computer without an operating system installed. Which forces Dell to choose only Windows because if they don't, Microsoft will increase licensing price for Dell and Dell will go bust.
And also, OEMs are in the business of providing a functioning computer out of the box for their customers, because the vast majority of the computer users aren't like ATers who knows how to build and install their own computers from individual components.
Not exactly. Some time ago there were big articles how "Dell loves Linux!". A bit later Dell got a call from MS, and whoops! Number of Linux-powered Dell-systems crashed.
Link
And OEM's can't sell their PC's with no OS. Dell just received letter from MS where MS denies them that right. If they want to sell PC's with no OS, they have to create separate product-line for those (and that increases costs and red tape).
I agree with you, but if an average computer user who doesn't know a lot sees an error message like that, how are they to know the truth behind it?
Interesting. Thanks for the links. I notice that one company is incorporated, the other is not. Maybe that's how they get away with it. Maybe Ford and Audi just have really lax exclusion policies.
The thing is, I actually like some of MS products. Some I hate, some I like. I also don't mind so much that MS has a monopoly. For a while (early to mid/late 90's) it probably helped the computer industry more than it hurt. But now, MS is so used to having a monopoly, they do everything in their power, including abusing it, to keep it. Have you tried using the latest versions of Red Hat or Mandrake? The installs there are almost easier than Win2k! Of course you have things like Debian which are a real pain, but hey thats choice for you.
I personally don't use too many MS products these days. I only use IE when absolutely forced too (prefer Mozilla), only use WMP to play back video that no one else can, and only use WinXP because I like to play games.
But the only thing keeping them from offering computers with no operating system is the fact that they are still dealing with MS. If they stopped dealing with MS they could do whatever they wanted to. Of course starting a new product line increases prices, and that's why they won't do it. It seems to me that the problem is with Dell, and not MS.
Running Linux here.
I evangelize, I file bug-reports, I help new users, I make suggestions
there were Dell desktops with Linux. MS forced Dell to kill Linux on the desktop. Dell complied.
Have you tried to install a modenr Linux-distro? Boot it from the CD. A nice graphical installer appears. Enter few setting ans click "Next" few times. In 30 minutes you have working OS with GUI and all the apps installed. In short: so easy a brain-dead could do it.
Why is it so easy to click an icon in Windowsi, but clicking an icon in Linux would be so difficult that it requires a rocket-scientist to do so
?Nice screenshots, aren't they
Doing that whenever I can.
<<I personally don't use too many MS products these days. I only use IE when absolutely forced too (prefer Mozilla), only use WMP to play back video that no one else can, and only use WinXP because I like to play games. >>
Ah see the problem here is you have CHOICE!!!! You choose to use Mozilla. You choose to use IE when you have to. You choose WinXP. Why? Because you like games! Linux does not provide a good operating platform for games. Again this is a major downfall of Linux. This is another reason why customers around the world use Microsoft.
Game makers simply do NOT make games for Linux. They make them for Microsoft. Now Gamemakers are not "forced" by Microsoft to make games only for the MS OS's. But because everyone uses MS they choose to only write it for one OS.
Now MS being a monopoly and their tactics they use..... Can they be blamed for the choices the customers have made for all these years? MS is just trying to stay alive in the most competative market around. Intel too had a stranglehold on the market till AMD actually producted a worthly product. No other development company/team has created anything close to MS OS's yet. That is the sole reason they are still a monopoly. That and people don't like change
Ah see the problem here is you have CHOICE!!!! You choose to use Mozilla. You choose to use IE when you have to. You choose WinXP. Why? Because you like games! Linux does not provide a good operating platform for games. Again this is a major downfall of Linux. This is another reason why customers around the world use Microsoft.
Game makers simply do NOT make games for Linux. They make them for Microsoft. Now Gamemakers are not "forced" by Microsoft to make games only for the MS OS's. But because everyone uses MS they choose to only write it for one OS.
Now MS being a monopoly and their tactics they use..... Can they be blamed for the choices the customers have made for all these years? MS is just trying to stay alive in the most competative market around. Intel too had a stranglehold on the market till AMD actually producted a worthly product. No other development company/team has created anything close to MS OS's yet. That is the sole reason they are still a monopoly. That and people don't like change
If Microsoft isn't doing what they're doing right now, Dell would be able to sell computers with other operating system installed, without extra cost. That would help Dell as well because it would reach a wider customer base than they have right now.
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