Microsoft kills Classic Shell in new Windows 10 build

Jun 23, 2001
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#1
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Blocks-Classic-Shell-in-Windows-10-Build-9879-465429.shtml

Windows 10 Technical Preview build 9879, which was officially released last week, no longer supports Classic Shell, which means that users have no other option than to stick to the default Start menu.

From now on, when trying to download and install Classic Shell on Windows 10, they are provided with an error telling them at “Classic Shell has compatibility issues” and it cannot be installed.

Running the installer in compatibility mode and using Microsoft's own instructions to get it work make absolutely no difference, and at this point it's impossible to use Classic Shell on a computer running Windows 10 Technical Preview build 9879. Unless you turn to a little trick, that is.
And that little trick is apparently absurdly easy.

The easiest way to install Classic Shell on a Windows 10 Technical Preview 9879 is to rename the installer from “ClassicShellSetup_4_1_0” to anything you want. We used “Softpedia” instead of the original name, and as you can see in the photo gallery below, everything works smoothly.
Not the smartest move from Microsoft, but it still pre-release and subject to all kinds of changes. But the fact that apparently just change the file name and have work fine makes it seem like there's no actual compatibility problem, just MS trying to force the user into the Modern UI.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,518
2
106
#2
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Blocks-Classic-Shell-in-Windows-10-Build-9879-465429.shtml



And that little trick is apparently absurdly easy.



Not the smartest move from Microsoft, but it still pre-release and subject to all kinds of changes. But the fact that apparently just change the file name and have work fine makes it seem like there's no actual compatibility problem, just MS trying to force the user into the Modern UI.
IMHO, you assume too much. MS has no incentive to blacklist Classic Shell in alpha software. It's one (of many) pieces of software their automatic testing routines have likely identified an issue in, which may not always manifest itself, or for that matter may be API related rather than outright buggy.
 

Jodell88

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
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#3
Windows 10 isn't out as yet. I consider this a non-issue at this point.
 
Apr 23, 2000
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#4
IMHO, you assume too much. MS has no incentive to blacklist Classic Shell in alpha software. It's one (of many) pieces of software their automatic testing routines have likely identified an issue in, which may not always manifest itself, or for that matter may be API related rather than outright buggy.

I've to agree, end of the day its Microsoft product and they can do what they want especially with beta builds etc,also it's not like you don't have a Start menu on Win10 which Microsoft are more concerned with,especially feedback from testers/users,why should they care about an unofficial third party mod like Classic Shell which is not needed and also not officially supported.
 

Skaendo

Senior member
Sep 30, 2014
339
0
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#5
IMHO, you assume too much. MS has no incentive to blacklist Classic Shell in alpha software. It's one (of many) pieces of software their automatic testing routines have likely identified an issue in, which may not always manifest itself, or for that matter may be API related rather than outright buggy.
In fact MS has 'Hard Blocked' Classic Shell from being installed. the simple workaround is to rename the installer to anything else.

Example: Shell.exe

It will install fine but there is one issue that has been pointed out by RampantAndroid here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36912955&postcount=238

However if you remove Search and Task View from the taskbar it becomes a non-issue.

This has been discussed here and in the MS Community Forums.

Windows 10 isn't out as yet. I consider this a non-issue at this point.
It may not be an issue to you, but it is an issue for people who want to protest the way that the new start menu is unfolding.

So you can cry that it is a Technical Preview and is not RTM, but how else is MS going to know that there is a large number of people who don't like the new start menu. Apparently they are not listening to feedback on this issue, therefore alternate means of getting the product to behave the way they want is to install a 3rd party replacement.

Saying you shouldn't install Classic Shell because MS is testing their products is nonsense. Then you have to say don't install ImgBurn because windows has a built in CD burner, or Adobe Reader for the same reasons.

*The TP is for testing the install and gathering error reports and feedback on its use. That includes any installed third party program.

**If it were just because they want to test their new start menu why does Start8 install without having to rename it?
 
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Apr 23, 2000
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#6
It may not be an issue to you, but it is an issue for people who want to protest the way that the new start menu is unfolding.

So you can cry that it is a Technical Preview and is not RTM, but how else is MS going to know that there is a large number of people who don't like the new start menu. Apparently they are not listening to feedback on this issue, therefore alternate means of getting the product to behave the way they want is to install a 3rd party replacement.

Saying you shouldn't install Classic Shell because MS is testing their products is nonsense. Then you have to say don't install ImgBurn because windows has a built in CD burner, or Adobe Reader for the same reasons.

*The TP is for testing the install and gathering error reports and feedback on its use. That includes any installed third party program.

**If it were just because they want to test their new start menu why does Start8 install without having to rename it?

They want you to beta test their products and Start menu not any unofficial third party one not made by them,the idea is you give feedback and suggestions on how to improve their Microsoft OS/product and Start menu, not tell them how a third party menu not made by them should be implemented in an early build of Win10.

Win10 is nowhere near RTM so it's non issue,especially when it's not even a Microsoft product or official add-on for their Win10 OS preview which as you know technically not a full OS or final,complete.


If anybody wants to play around with third party menus then with respect I suggest they stick to Linux builds.


Last point why not suggest things from Classic Shell you would like to see in final build of Win10 Start menu,that is more of a constructive feedback to them.
 

Skaendo

Senior member
Sep 30, 2014
339
0
0
#7
They want you to beta test their products and Start menu not any unofficial third party one not made by them,the idea is you give feedback and suggestions on how to improve their Microsoft OS/product and Start menu, not tell them how a third party menu not made by them should be implemented in an early build of Win10.

Win10 is nowhere near RTM so it's non issue,especially when it's not even a Microsoft product or official add-on for their Win10 OS preview which as you know technically not a full OS or final,complete.
So your essentially saying don't install any 3rd party programs like Adobe Reader, ImgBurn, Firefox, any anti-virus or malware software, skype, etc, etc, because you need to test MSs metro equivalents. I have no desire to use these including the metro style start menu because there are 3rd party trusted programs that already do these things.

I knew someone would cry that it is not RTM, and that is exactly what I got. Never mind that MS has a list of programs that they know are incompatible and list them. So obviously they know that people are going to be using them, and are looking for any crash reports related to them.

Last point why not suggest things from Classic Shell you would like to see in final build of Win10 Start menu,that is more of a constructive feedback to them.
Apparently they are not listening to feedback on this issue, therefore alternate means of getting the product to behave the way they want is to install a 3rd party replacement.
At the end when it is RTM and if the start menu remains the way it is, Classic Shell and other replacements will be there to save the day, again.
 
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Apr 23, 2000
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#8
So your essentially saying don't install any 3rd party programs like Adobe Reader, ImgBurn, Firefox, any anti-virus or malware software, skype, etc, etc, because you need to test MSs metro equivalents. I have no desire to use these including the metro style start menu because there are 3rd party trusted programs that already do these things.

I knew someone would cry that it is not RTM, and that is exactly what I got. Never mind that MS has a list of programs that they know are incompatible and list them. So obviously they know that people are going to be using them, and are looking for any crash reports related to them.

You are missing the point,early builds of beta are going through many changes,its easier for them to concentrate on their own OS then worrying about things like third party Start menus,lets get final/RTM out the gate first.

What's the point in getting Classic Shell to work now and find it breaks in later builds or not compatible in RTM,see my point?..Same goes for what works now but not later.
Once RTM is out then software companies can work on their final official software for Win10.


Remember Win10 is the early testing/changing phase,software like Classic Shell is not top of their list or even important if you think about it at this time.
Also remember it's easier to makes things compatible more stable in final/RTM builds rather then an OS that is changing like in beta builds etc...
Also Microsoft will probably have their own guidelines on what software companies can or can't break in their final/RTM OS etc for example security/stabililty etc...
 
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Skaendo

Senior member
Sep 30, 2014
339
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#9
You are missing the point,early builds of beta are going through many changes,its easier for them to concentrate on their own OS then worrying about things like third party Start menus,lets get final/RTM out the gate first.
But you are singling out 1 specific program. Sure it may 'break' some 'option' in the OS. Personally I don't use the options that Classic Shell 'breaks', and I have noticed no other issues.

*If you say don't install Classic Shell, then you have to say don't install any 3rd party programs.

What's the point in getting Classic Shell to work now and find it breaks in later builds or not compatible in RTM,see my point?..Same goes for what works now but not later. Once RTM is out then software companies can work on their final official software for Win10.
Because it works as described for me as I have the OS configured, and there are no issues. If there is a new issue in a new build then it's tough luck for me, or anyone else who uses the software.

A Classic Shell programmer has told me the workaround and said that there wouldn't be a new release until Windows 10 is RTM. So where is the harm in using it besides telling MS that I don't like their start menu and I am going to use something I like no matter what they say, until they make theirs more the way that I like it.

If they see that x amount of people are using a shell replacement, you would think that they would wake up and do something about it. To date this is not the case.
 
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Apr 23, 2000
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#10
A Classic Shell programmer has told me the workaround and said that there wouldn't be a new release until Windows 10 is RTM. So where is the harm in using it besides telling MS that I don't like their start menu and I am going to use something I like no matter what they say, until they make theirs more the way that I like it.

If they see that x amount of people are using a shell replacement, you would think that they would wake up and do something about it. To date this is not the case.

I'm not singling out a single point,again it's not Microsoft responsibility to get Classic Shell or any other third party working at this time, that's down to the software company of the software in question and again they have to WAIT until Microsoft is ready with their final/official RTM build of Win10 down the road.Microsoft have enough of their own issues to worry about with Win10 builds at this time rather then taking on all the third party software out there right now.

When Win10 is ready is later not now.

End of the day you have to wait and see what happens with Win10 final ,using a beta/preview build now is a privilege not a right or demand for things.
 
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Skaendo

Senior member
Sep 30, 2014
339
0
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#11
I'm not singling out a single point,again it's not Microsoft responsibility to get Classic Shell or any other third party working at this time, that's down to the software company of the software in question and again they have to WAIT until Microsoft is ready with their final/official ,RTM build down the road.
I have never said that it was MSs responsibility.
I'm saying that the way I have Windows 10 configured (with search and task view removed) Classic Shell works as described, and if they don't roll out a start menu that I like once Windows 10 is RTM I will continue to use Classic Shell.
And I have been informed by a Classic Shell programmer that Classic Shell will have a new release once Windows 10 is RTM.

*I don't see it as a privilege or a right seeing that they are handing it out to anyone with a Internet connection. The only reason they handed it out is for feedback, crash reports, and compatibility. The only reason that you need to sign up for the preview program is for the enterprise release and to give feedback. Otherwise you can download and deploy on as many systems you want to. That is not privileged, that is a handout.
 
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Underclocked

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,038
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#12
At least they backed off on suppressing the related threads. There is NO logical reason for MS not to be told why the format provided by Classic Shell is one that a majority of users would prefer. I pointed this out to them and suggested they could at least equal the flexibility afforded by Classic Shell, since it IS their playground.

Classic Shell on the latest build of 10 preview causes no events, no errors, and no problems other than the one already mentioned (which I consider a non-problem). I also think MS may finally be getting the message.
 
May 24, 2003
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www.uovalor.com
#13
Sucks, hopefully they change their mind and add that in.

Classic shell or bust. Especially in a professional environment where your computer is a tool not some flashy eye candy stuff. Not a fan of flashy UIs, they look cool but it gets old fast trying to use them, it's just too much for the eyes to process when dealing with 20+ windows at once. I find in windows 7 with default shell it gets hard to tell where a window starts and ends just because of too much colors/shading all bunched together. It's kinda like in certain video games when there's too much stuff going on in the background it's harder to notice things in the foreground.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,130
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#14
...no longer supports Classic Shell, which means that users have no other option than to stick to the default Start menu.
? Since when is Classic Shell the only SMR?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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#15
Same programs running, icons in the same order, notice how two entire windows (and part of a third - the explorer icon is missing a border) on the task bar just vanish when classic shell replaces my start button:
Without classic shell:


With Classic shell


That probably qualifies as making the OS unusable, as the first couple of open programs can no longer be clicked on...and it isn't readily apparent what happened.
The hard block message when trying to install classic shell says there is a compatibility issue with the software. I don't know about some people's definition of a compatibility issue, but entire open windows being hidden in the default configuration of the task bar would seem to me to be a serious compatibility issue.

This doesn't mean that you shouldn't use other 3rd party software. It means MS found this program to be an issue and is trying to prevent people who don't know what they're doing from breaking the OS. It's pretty plain and simple to me.

As for the Win10 start menu....all you've said Skaendo is that you don't like flat icons, metro and want...customization. What exactly, beyond flat icons that you cannot change, and the metro app pinning (which you can remove) do you want? I've asked before and saw no answer. Serious question.

It may not be an issue to you, but it is an issue for people who want to protest the way that the new start menu is unfolding.
Isn't that what the feedback tool is for? You're assuming someone is watching the install count of these start menu replacements...which might not be a good assumption. Conversely, assuming that people are reading well thought out feedback remarks IS a good assumption.
 
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Apr 23, 2000
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#16
I have never said that it was MSs responsibility.
I'm saying that the way I have Windows 10 configured (with search and task view removed) Classic Shell works as described, and if they don't roll out a start menu that I like once Windows 10 is RTM I will continue to use Classic Shell.
And I have been informed by a Classic Shell programmer that Classic Shell will have a new release once Windows 10 is RTM.

*I don't see it as a privilege or a right seeing that they are handing it out to anyone with a Internet connection. The only reason they handed it out is for feedback, crash reports, and compatibility. The only reason that you need to sign up for the preview program is for the enterprise release and to give feedback. Otherwise you can download and deploy on as many systems you want to. That is not privileged, that is a handout.
I don't see your problem,just wait for RTM of Win10 and the new build of Classic Shell for RTM then.

End of the day you are still in early beta/preview phase regardless of what works or does not.

Best you can do is give Microsoft constructive feedback.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,518
2
106
#17
In fact MS has 'Hard Blocked' Classic Shell from being installed. the simple workaround is to rename the installer to anything else.

Example: Shell.exe

It will install fine but there is one issue that has been pointed out by RampantAndroid here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36912955&postcount=238

However if you remove Search and Task View from the taskbar it becomes a non-issue.

This has been discussed here and in the MS Community Forums.
Apologies. Please let me rephrase that. MS has no incentive to block Classic Shell in alpha softwareon the basis of malice, which is what Bateluer was asserting. It's incompatible software, and the fact that it's blocked on that basis - and by the installer name alone - is quite different from blocking it on the grounds that somehow MS doesn't like you using it.

If MS didn't want you using Classic Shell, then there wouldn't be any workaround. They would break it hard at the API level.
 

Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,635
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#18
*If you say don't install Classic Shell, then you have to say don't install any 3rd party programs.
No you don't.

Classic Shell directly replaces a part of the OS they are actively and heavily restructuring. Other third party software is not directly replacing a core OS function. We're not talking about "all third party apps," we're specifically talking about the start menu. Adobe Reader, Skype, etc does not interact with the start menu in any meaningful way. If anything, they *need* to be installed to test how these third party apps interact with the new start menu live tiles (for those that take advantage of them). Forcibly removing the new start menu does not help you test the new start menu.

The bottom line is that this is a technical preview intended to garner feedback specifically on what's being changed, as well as to give developers time to work out software compatibility issues (like this one) before the OS goes RTM and is publicly released for sale. They can't get feedback on compatibility/bugs of the *new* start menu if you scoff at even using it and immediately replace it with something else, but that's beside the point.

The current version of Classic Shell is *known* to be incompatible and buggy in W10, and is being blocked for that reason until it's updated and fixed. There's no bogeyman here, just an incompatible app that the developers need to update.
 
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Skaendo

Senior member
Sep 30, 2014
339
0
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#19
I don't see your problem,just wait for RTM of Win10 and the new build of Classic Shell for RTM then.
End of the day you are still in early beta/preview phase regardless of what works or does not.
Best you can do is give Microsoft constructive feedback.
I don't have a problem, like I keep saying, how I have Windows 10TP configured (with search and task view removed from the taskbar) Classic Shell works as described with no issues, and I am a Windows Insider Member and give feedback everyday through Windows Feedback.

Apologies. Please let me rephrase that. MS has no incentive to block Classic Shell in alpha softwareon the basis of malice, which is what Bateluer was asserting. It's incompatible software, and the fact that it's blocked on that basis - and by the installer name alone - is quite different from blocking it on the grounds that somehow MS doesn't like you using it. If MS didn't want you using Classic Shell, then there wouldn't be any workaround. They would break it hard at the API level.
I agree with you that they are not blocking it because they have something against it, but again based on my testing experiences as I have Windows 10TP configured, there is no issue.

Why is it such a taboo to use a program that works 100% by how the system is configured? I am pretty sure that I am not the only person that doesn't use search and task view (I wont use these, ever. Not that I'm against them, I just have no use for them.) and at the same time uses Classic Shell. Should not the individual be able to decide if it is a reasonable trade-off that if one works the other wont?

I know that things are going to change from build to build. So if the Windows 10 RTM start menu is configurable to the way that I like it then I will use it. If not then I'll use something else. For now I see no issues with Classic Shell as I have Windows configured, nothing has broken, no errors, no BSOD, no crashes. So I will continue to use it, and continue to give feedback to MS by both Windows Feedback and replacing the start menu.
 
Apr 23, 2000
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#20
You have to remember Microsoft prefer you to use and test the OS as it is ie no third party Start menu in preview/
beta builds etc,it's fine to use third party software as long as it does not change the actual preview/beta OS you are using for testing etc otherwise that would defeat their purpose of testing/bug fixing etc,for example by using Classic Shell you cannot beta test or use their default Start menu for feedback,also you don't know what it breaks or changes by using something that is not part of Microsoft Win10 preview OS,I hope you see what I'm trying to say.


It is always a case of getting the default OS stable/fine tuned and how Microsoft want it exactly for RTM before moving onto the software side for it,I'm sure plenty of software companies will be fine tuning their software for Win10 once it goes RTM down the road.


Microsoft can block software if they think it's an issue in beta/preview builds,that's their right.
 

Underclocked

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,038
0
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#21
Microsoft would prefer if we were all happily little consumers that delight in every little thing they do. Some testers express views and feedback they may not have desired nor even want to hear, but it might do them some good to listen early on.

The start menu needs to be redesigned to fit more appropriately with what a great many people are both accustomed to and desire. So some of you are happy as is, that's great and none of us want them to take away your ability to have the start menu you desire, even if it is no start menu at all. We just want the same whether it's from Microsoft or we have to go to other sources to achieve that goal.

I wonder how many total installs of Classic Shell, StartIsBack, and the other replacements have been made and are still in use? My own download of Classic Shell has been installed on about 40 computers and about 40 computer owners are far happier with that interface and able to use their machines as they want. Microsoft could design a start menu so customizable as to eliminate the need for such programs.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
0
81
#22
I don't have a problem, like I keep saying, how I have Windows 10TP configured (with search and task view removed from the taskbar) Classic Shell works as described with no issues, and I am a Windows Insider Member and give feedback everyday through Windows Feedback.


I agree with you that they are not blocking it because they have something against it, but again based on my testing experiences as I have Windows 10TP configured, there is no issue.
And you again ignore my question about what changes you want.

As for classic shell, that you have no issues in your config...isn't the issue at hand. In a possible configuration - the default configuration no less - classic shell breaks the Windows UI. It's really just that simple. Should classic shell release a new build, the hard block probably would go away. Until things are unbroken however, you ARE able to still make that choice - by renaming the EXE file. I really don't see what the problem is here.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
0
81
#23
The start menu needs to be redesigned to fit more appropriately with what a great many people are both accustomed to and desire.
Please...someone just actually say what you want other than, "not this."
 

Skaendo

Senior member
Sep 30, 2014
339
0
0
#24
You have to remember Microsoft prefer you to use and test the OS as it is ie no third party Start menu in preview/ beta builds etc,it's fine to use third party software as long as it does not change the actual preview/beta OS you are using for testing etc otherwise that would defeat their purpose of testing/bug fixing etc,for example by using Classic Shell you cannot beta test or use their default Start menu for feedback,also you don't know what it breaks or changes by using something that is not part of Microsoft Win10 preview OS,I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

It is always a case of getting the default OS stable/fine tuned and how Microsoft want it exactly for RTM before moving onto the software side for it,I'm sure plenty of software companies will be fine tuning their software for Win10 once it goes RTM down the road.

Microsoft can block software if they think it's an issue in beta/preview builds,that's their right.
I understand what you are saying, but I used the default start menu through the first 2 builds and part of the latest, giving feedback the whole way on it, metro programs and tiles. While I seen a great call for the same features/requests that echoed the same ones that I would like to see, nothing has yet materialized. Instead they were suppressing the threads that people were asking for features similar to Classic Shell and asking why Classic Shell was blocked and not giving any reason for it.

I will give the start menu another shot with every new build. I never really intended to install Classic Shell but now that I have, it has been a breath of fresh air. If requests for features continue to go unheeded I will continue to use Classic Shell. IMO the thing that is 'broke' is the start menu itself. By rejecting their start menu is feedback in itself.

If they want it 'how Microsoft want it exactly for RTM' as you said, then why are they handing it out and looking for feedback? I was under the impression that they wanted to 'please the masses' while at the same time making a good OS, that everyone can like.
 
Apr 23, 2000
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#25
IMO the thing that is 'broke' is the start menu itself. By rejecting their start menu is feedback in itself.

If they want it 'how Microsoft want it exactly for RTM' as you said, then why are they handing it out and looking for feedback? I was under the impression that they wanted to 'please the masses' while at the same time making a good OS, that everyone can like.

If you think it's broke then tell them exactly what needs to be improved,rejecting something is one thing but Microsoft NEED to know where you feel they can improve their Start menu,remember it's still an early build so things can and will change down the road.

Classic Shell at the moment really does nothing for Win10 Preview,reason being Win10 OS builds will change down the road and Classic Shell is not part of their official build or main testing feature,also the software company that makes Classic Shell will probably redesign/change Classic Shell for final RTM build of 10 so it's really more of a convenient/preference thing you are using it at this time,you may end up hating the later Classic Shell build for RTM of Win10.



So bottom line it's really a simple case of YOU telling them via feedback what needs changing in THEIR Start Menu and ways Microsoft can improve it,also helping them find any bugs in their Start menu as well.
 


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