Microsoft is a horrible company with horrible policies. Help

ZippyDan

Platinum Member
Sep 28, 2001
2,141
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Disclaimer: My title is a horrible generalization but I am shocked by how stupid Microsoft is with the way they set things up

Disclaimer 2: This is a little bit my fault, but not really

Story: One of my users had their computer die while I was out of the country, traveling for work. We purchased a new computer for this user as well as a copy of Office 2013 Professional. The computer and Office arrived before I was back in the country, and since they needed to work, I told them to go ahead and set up the computer and install Office and do what work they could. I figured that as soon as I got back, I would wipe the computer and set it up on the domain and give them their normal standard user access. Yes, this is a smaller company and there was no tech available locally to perform the installation. Even if there was, I'm not sure even I would've avoided this stupid Microsoft "trap". It is important to note that this is the first time our company has purchased Office 2013 and so it was our first experience with it; I was assuming that installation and activation of Office would go just as it has with every Office before, or with Windows 8 which is a recent MS product I did have experience with.

So apparently during the Activation phase of Office 2013, it asks you to sign in with a Windows Live account. What it DOESN'T TELL YOU ANYWHERE is that once you sign in with that account, that license key will be FOREVER ATTACHED to that Windows Live ID. In fact, Microsoft doesn't really give you any kind of information or warning whatsoever: it just tells you to login to Windows Live. So of course, my user, not knowing any better (I'm not sure I would've known any better either considering I've never had to reinstall Office 2013 before) used their PERSONAL Windows Live account to activate the software.

Of course, when I finally got back to the Office and wiped everything and went to reinstall Office again, it wouldn't let me do so without using the "correct" Windows Live account. I called Microsoft and got bounced around to various departments but all with the same message: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSFER AN OFFICE LICENSE FROM A MICROSOFT LIVE ACCOUNT ONCE IT HAS BEEN ATTACHED. I asked to speak to a supervisor, I asked to escalate the request. Nothing. So look where this leaves me:

Option 1: The user has to give me their personal e-mail address and password, giving me access to all of their Microsoft services such as their personal e-mail and skydrive.

Option 1A: The user has to give me their personal e-mail address and password and abandon their account and go through the hassle of notifying all their friends and family of their change of e-mail and move all their skydrive files.

Option 2: The user keeps their e-mail address and password secret, but if they ever leave the company, or god-forbid we ever upgrade the Office on their computer, then the license is forfeit because we won't have the account information for activation purposes.

All of these are horrible options. Does anyone else think this is a completely draconian policy by Microsoft? This is MY LICENSE (or my company's anyway) and I can't use it as I want to in a completely legal manner!

Fast forward to a couple of weeks later. I'm in one of our South American offices and I'm doing installs of like 10 recently-purchased copies of Office 2013 Pro. I've wised up to Microsoft's new policy, which still has no warning: they should have a very clear CONFIRMATION page that says

"WARNING, Please review the following information: the key ABCDE-FGHIJ-KLMNO-PQRST-UVWXY will be FOREVER and PERMANENTLY ATTACHED to the following Windows Live account name@domain.com"

...with a nice clear "CONFIRM" button below. But they don't have that, so anyway...

What I've decided to do is create a new and unique Windows Live account for each License Key. So If my license ends in UVWXY as above, I am creating a Windows Live account called "office.2013.pro-UVWXY@mycompany.com". I am doing this for all ten licenses in a row, and I guess somewhere along the line I failed to log out of one account and log into the next one, and I ended up with two licenses on the same Windows Live ID. I called Microsoft again and they told me to screw off. Again, this is a normal, understandable human error. I'm not incompetent, I was simply tired and made an error doing a repetitive task. But Microsoft has NO ALLOWANCE for correcting errors. This is ridiculous.

What I also find stunning is these are copies of Office 2013 PROFESSIONAL. Yea, it is not a Volume or Open license. Yea, we're not a giant corporate enterprise with our own Microsoft rep on the other line. But it is still, supposedly, a product aimed at BUSINESSES (I'm sure of this because the two levels below are called "Office 2013 Home and Student" and "Office 2013 Home and (Small) Business"), and yet they treat their users like morons and garbage.
 
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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,374
10,766
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Yea, proprietary software is wonderful. And people wonder why I make a big deal out it...
 

Virgorising

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2013
4,470
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0
As per the underlying message of Oliver Stones' Wall Street (get the best edition with the bonus disk, U will be amazed at how many people stunned the principals of this work and continue to, because they did not get it):

Greed....is always pernicious. And greed, and the end justifies the means were at the heart of MS from its inception.
 

Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
Disclaimer:
All of these are horrible options. Does anyone else think this is a completely draconian policy by Microsoft? This is MY LICENSE (or my company's anyway) and I can't use it as I want to in a completely legal manner!

its not really YOUR license, its MS/Company that is allow you to use the software and can do anything they see fit.

I disagree with this too but this is a fact of all those EULA's that no one reads, at least thats what I remember from reading an editorial a while back about eula's and licensees


What I've decided to do is create a new and unique Windows Live account for each License Key. So If my license ends in UVWXY as above, I am creating a Windows Live account called "office.2013.pro-UVWXY@mycompany.com". I am doing this for all ten licenses in a row, and I guess somewhere along the line I failed to log out of one account and log into the next one, and I ended up with two licenses on the same Windows Live ID. I called Microsoft again and they told me to screw off. Again, this is a normal, understandable human error. I'm not incompetent, I was simply tired and made an error doing a repetitive task. But Microsoft has NO ALLOWANCE for correcting errors. This is ridiculous.

What I also find stunning is these are copies of Office 2013 PROFESSIONAL. Yea, it is not a Volume or Open license. Yea, we're not a giant corporate enterprise with our own Microsoft rep on the other line. But it is still, supposedly, a product aimed at BUSINESSES (I'm sure of this because the two levels below are called "Office 2013 Home and Student" and "Office 2013 Home and (Small) Business"), and yet they treat their users like morons and garbage.

You can activate upto about 30 keys on 1 Live account. Look at the discussion that I and Kaido did trying to work this out as well
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2380817
 

ZippyDan

Platinum Member
Sep 28, 2001
2,141
1
81
its not really YOUR license, its MS/Company that is allow you to use the software and can do anything they see fit.

I disagree with this too but this is a fact of all those EULA's that no one reads, at least thats what I remember from reading an editorial a while back about eula's and licensees

You can activate upto about 30 keys on 1 Live account. Look at the discussion that I and Kaido did trying to work this out as well
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2380817

After the first disaster, I researched and found people saying they could only register 5 licenses per account. So I decided it would be more organized to do a 1:1 license-account relationship. If it is 30 then that is interesting, but too late now. It wouldn't be too late if MS let me transfer and organize my licenses...
 

Berryracer

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2006
2,779
1
81
I had the same thing happen to me.......but what you missed is this.....

When installing Office 2013.....it first asks you to enter your MS Live ID Email.....but underneath it..........there is a small blue link.....that says "Enter Product Key Instead"....

so you click it, and enter the product key without the email......and it will install just fine and when you launch it and it asks you to sign in....just choose later....when you first launch any product like MS Word. it will activate over the internet, or if it detects it's another computer or hardware has changed, it will prompt you to activate using the phone.....

has always worked for me...

like you .....I signed in the first time using my Boss's email and now the license is attached to him......but I can install it on another computer just fine after I have uninstalled it from the computer it was installed on originally......very easy to get around it and while I don't agree with how MS is doing this.....it's easy to get around

I'm surprised the Micro$haft clowns didn't tell you about this!
 
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Virgorising

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2013
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I had the same thing happen to me.......but what you missed is this.....

When installing Office 2013.....it first asks you to enter your MS Live ID Email.....but underneath it..........there is a small blue link.....that says "Enter Product Key Instead"....

so you click it, and enter the product key without the email......and it will install just fine and when you launch it and it asks you to sign in....just choose later....when you first launch any product like MS Word. it will activate over the internet, or if it detects it's another computer or hardware has changed, it will prompt you to activate using the phone.....

has always worked for me...

like you .....I signed in the first time using my Boss's email and now the license is attached to him......but I can install it on another computer just fine after I have uninstalled it from the computer it was installed on originally......very easy to get around it and while I don't agree with how MS is doing this.....it's easy to get around

WOW!:thumbsup:
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,559
248
106
When I read you post ZippyDan, I see a lot of personal and corporate software/hardware interaction. You really need to start setting lines here. Something like "you are free to use this software for personal use, but this software is the property of x company and will be set up as such."

It is in everyone's interest for you to be involved in the first install of major programs, such as Office. Although the Live account is pushed far too hard IMO, it is quite easy for one to see how to set it up without this account.

Office comes with more than one license, so as part of the learning process, you may just want to "waste" a license on a learning experience. Or:

Ask the user for the email password so that you can activate. He can change the PW afterword. Honestly, if you are the IT guy, and you two are in the same company, there needs to be at least some level of trust there.
 

Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
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@ketchup79 - I think the main issue was that the OP was not there / available and the customer did not know either which to be fair, for Office 2013 they really did not have any details about this change that was easily found

@berryracer - interesting, I may have to try that for my next install, I believe that I tried that too, but it kept coming up to the point of wanting to sign in to activate it

as a side note, wonder if you can skip the activation of it with using the phone method there by possibly not tying the key to an account
 

AFurryReptile

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2006
1,998
1
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When installing new versions of Windows (8 and up), I just unplug the ethernet cable during the initial install. That login screen won't pop up at all that way.
 

ZippyDan

Platinum Member
Sep 28, 2001
2,141
1
81
When I read you post ZippyDan, I see a lot of personal and corporate software/hardware interaction. You really need to start setting lines here. Something like "you are free to use this software for personal use, but this software is the property of x company and will be set up as such."

"A lot?" What? This was one occurrence. And I don't see what you are talking about. The computer is company property and resides on company property. The copy of Office is also company property. There was no misunderstanding by anyone in that regard. The "misunderstanding" comes from the fact that no one would have ever thought that simply signing into your Windows Live ID would tie your software license to that ID because, not only has Microsoft never done that for anything ever before, but also because it is incredibly asinine.

It is in everyone's interest for you to be involved in the first install of major programs, such as Office. Although the Live account is pushed far too hard IMO, it is quite easy for one to see how to set it up without this account.[/i]

Obviously, but I was not physically in the country at the time. Furthermore, I have NEVER run into a situation where installation of a piece of software precluded installation later or where a registration could never be undone or changed.

Apparently it is not so easy to see how to set it up without the account because the web is full of people with the same problem.

Ask the user for the email password so that you can activate. He can change the PW afterword. Honestly, if you are the IT guy, and you two are in the same company, there needs to be at least some level of trust there.

This is not a good solution because it assumes that the employee will always be working with the company. That is the biggest problem with Microsoft's setup, that the registration becomes an always thing, and very few things in life are "always".
 

Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
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The problem here is you're trying to use retail licensing in a business setting. That's not to say that retail licensing with Office 2013 isn't a convoluted mess, but it's still the wrong tool for the job.

Either get your business on an appropriate Office365 plan, or get yourself an open license key for Office 2013 for the imaging rights. The minimum company size for an open license plan is *five users*. Then you toss all those little OEM Office keys in a box in the closet and install on all PCs with the single open key you were provided.

But Office 365 really is where things are moving. They're doing massive backend improvements monthly, and odds are the next version of office will *only* come as part of the 365 plan.
 

Charlie98

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2011
6,298
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But Office 365 really is where things are moving. They're doing massive backend improvements monthly, and odds are the next version of office will *only* come as part of the 365 plan.

...that's why I'm clinging to my Office'10 for as long as I can. :sneaky:

I don't know why anyone is surprised... the trend over the past 7-8 years that I can remember is towards subscription service. Intuit especially has shut me out of my last two versions of QuickBooks, and MS is no different. They don't want people buying a software package and running it for 10 years...
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
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Sad that the "free" software brigade runs in here touting the shallow benefits of "free" software. Note the quotes in "Free." In a business, nothing is free. Sure the license cost is "zero" but it sure isn't free. Compatibility issues and user training for the ever changing Libreoffice suites is enough cost to make Office 2013 cost less.

Danny, the thing that really should have been done here is avoid the mess of retail licenses in a business or at the very least join then all to a single live ID up front. From there since it was planned to wipe the machine soon after, you should have told them install with no key and run for the 90 day trial. Otherwise this sounds like the typical last minute, poorly planned situation that seems to happen at all companies because most managers can't seem to plan themselves out of a paper bag. We are a larger organization and we have one "live" account that has access to the VLK site and where any off the wall retail junk ends up on for this reason.

We also have the rule that anything not registered here is "not owned" by us. We also don't allow expense reimbursement for software.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
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The problem here is you're trying to use retail licensing in a business setting. That's not to say that retail licensing with Office 2013 isn't a convoluted mess, but it's still the wrong tool for the job.

Either get your business on an appropriate Office365 plan, or get yourself an open license key for Office 2013 for the imaging rights. The minimum company size for an open license plan is *five users*. Then you toss all those little OEM Office keys in a box in the closet and install on all PCs with the single open key you were provided.

But Office 365 really is where things are moving. They're doing massive backend improvements monthly, and odds are the next version of office will *only* come as part of the 365 plan.

This one is the winner. Run a business with business licenses.
 

Berryracer

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2006
2,779
1
81
QFT, any other Free Office alternative I've tried plain sucks in everything, nothing can come close to the awesome interface of MS Office sadly. I'd take Office 2003 even before even thinking of using Open Office or whatever free Office suite there is out there.

Libre? qBittorrent is another example of the buggiest torrent client I've ever used! don't believe me? just head out to their forums and you will be blown away when seeing what kinds of issues users run through. It is just plain and horrible.

Libre = Junk quality

just my 2 cents worth
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
642
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QFT, any other Free Office alternative I've tried plain sucks in everything, nothing can come close to the awesome interface of MS Office sadly. I'd take Office 2003 even before even thinking of using Open Office or whatever free Office suite there is out there.

Libre? qBittorrent is another example of the buggiest torrent client I've ever used! don't believe me? just head out to their forums and you will be blown away when seeing what kinds of issues users run through. It is just plain and horrible.

Libre = Junk quality

just my 2 cents worth

Surprisingly, I've seen trackers where you HAVE to use qbittorrent. I don't know why they would do that....
 

Berryracer

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2006
2,779
1
81
Surprisingly, I've seen trackers where you HAVE to use qbittorrent. I don't know why they would do that....
hmm, I use the old µTorrent 2.2.1 (Build 25302) still and it works best for me.

I did notice that sometimes there is a torrent where there are seeds/peers but it doesn't download.......could that be the problem?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,374
10,766
126
Sad that the "free" software brigade runs in here touting the shallow benefits of "free" software. Note the quotes in "Free." In a business, nothing is free. Sure the license cost is "zero" but it sure isn't free. Compatibility issues and user training for the ever changing Libreoffice suites is enough cost to make Office 2013 cost less.

The "free" in free software has nothing to do with price; not one single thing. It refers to the freedom to use the software as you wish. What you're referring to is "gratis", and that may or may not be free software. Free software many times is gratis, but it doesn't have to be.

With that out of the way... I use LibreOffice in a business setting, and it suits my purposes just fine.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
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The "free" in free software has nothing to do with price; not one single thing. It refers to the freedom to use the software as you wish. What you're referring to is "gratis", and that may or may not be free software. Free software many times is gratis, but it doesn't have to be.

With that out of the way... I use LibreOffice in a business setting, and it suits my purposes just fine.

Ah the part that 99.9% of businesses don't care about. Check.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
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Looks to me like Zippy cares a lot. He wouldn't have posted this thread if Office were free software.

Instead he would be posting about some weird obscure error mentioned in some off forum with 8 solutions that may work. Wasting 4-8 hours of his life. Same as this issue actually.