Microsoft Insider Claims It Should Refocus on PC

[TheSlamma]

No, not just Origin. All of the developers are pushing towards their own software distribution. Blizzard already does it, we have Uplay, Origin and even CD Project has their own. Valve sees the writing on the wall, they are a distributor and when others distribute they lose out and that's why they are branching out in what they do.

Blizzard is the only reasonable company you have listed and they make a game what once every 4 years? They can't even get a friggin SC expansion out in a reasonable time period so I don't think they are a huge threat.

EA and Ubi dude seriously?? those are some junk companies. Sure if you are a tool that really thinks Assassins Creed III is actually a different game than the last 2 or 3 or whatever then I guess you got a good circle jerk session, but they destroyed Ghost Recon and rainbow 6, Heroes of might and magic, the Settlers, Splinter Cell.. I mean sorry to tell you but their coming soon list is being put to shame by some of these Indie devs these days. Rayman and another failed R6 and Splinter cell is all they got? Wow man that's AWESOME.

Lets look at EA's upcoming PC titles.. Oh yes we got another killed franchise in Crysis 3.. oh and another in Simcity.. oh and yet another in Command and Conquer. 2 franchises that were cool over a decade ago and 1 that was never cool but just another shooter it's entire life.

Come back to the grown ups table when you got a real competitor for us to all talk about.

Edit: oh and I just visited that CD Project.. LOL.. wow they look.. nevermind.

 

[Lonyo]

Last I checked, Valve was in fact a software developer. One making money hand over fist, while EA hemorrhages cash. Actually expecting Origin to kill Steam is simple Madness.

Teaming up with Microsoft would be a terrible idea, simply because Microsoft doesn't want to be partners with Steam, they want to take it's place. Would be the equivalent of Apple letting Microsoft run the iPhone app store - not much to be gained, lots to be lost.

Valve releases maybe one game a year.
It's almost a certainty they make the vast majority of their money selling the games of other developers and taking a cut.
Valve would probably lose money hand over fist if they were just a software developer, because they don't release much product, and have very long development times.

Selling other people's games is as close to free money as you can get.Around a 30% cut for supplying some bandwidth.

Also, Origin doesn't compete with Steam, for the most part.
Most people wouldn't buy CoD Black Ops 2 because it was on Steam over buying Battlefield 3 because it's on Origin, they buy BF3 or they buy CoD, and it comes attached to a service.

If all the major developers decided to go it alone like EA, and stopped putting new games on Steam, what would happen? Valve would magically be fine and Steam would live forever?
Origin can't kill Steam, but other Origins from each publisher could. Steam is a business model built around geting a cut of other people's sales, much like any retail business is.
If publishers/etc decide to cut out the middleman, Steam is as vulnerable as any high street B&M store is, because Valve don't make enough product on their own.

 

[blackened23]

I have to say i'm rather surprised at the trash talk directed at Steam. Gabe Newell and company have proven time and time again that they are not motivated purely by cash as other firms such as EA are, and actually truly care about the PC experience - Valve could have gone public years ago for monetary purposes which would have made Gabe billions richer, yet they haven't. They want control of their company, and they want to further the gaming experience. I've seen this guy do various presentations at universities and I really do believe he is genuine - he isn't a fraudulent capitalist IMO.

I am completely shocked by some of the responses here. Steam IMO is a wonderful service which continually offers sales prices on great games......I can't say i've seen any similar sales on Origin. Furthermore, the Steam experience has been completely pain free for years, with steamworks being the one DRM that is completely NOT intrusive or hindering the PC gaming experience whatsoever. I, for one, love Valve and company and many of my friends feel the same way. Again....really shocked by the steam hate...not sure where that is coming from.

 

[Nintendesert]

I have to say i'm rather surprised at the trash talk directed at Steam. Gabe Newell and company have proven time and time again that they are not motivated purely by cash as other firms such as EA are, and actually truly care about the PC experience - Valve could have gone public years ago for monetary purposes which would have made Gabe billions richer, yet they haven't. They want control of their company, and they want to further the gaming experience. I've seen this guy do various presentations at universities and I really do believe he is genuine - he isn't a fraudulent capitalist IMO.

I am completely shocked by some of the responses here. Steam IMO is a wonderful service which continually offers sales prices on great games......I can't say i've seen any similar sales on Origin. Furthermore, the Steam experience has been completely pain free for years, with steamworks being the one DRM that is completely NOT intrusive or hindering the PC gaming experience whatsoever. I, for one, love Valve and company and many of my friends feel the same way. Again....really shocked by the steam hate...not sure where that is coming from.

It's not hate. It's an objective look at their company and what they are providing and what they are trying to do. One doesn't need to constantly slobber on Gabe's ... valve. :biggrin: I'm pretty sure for instance that I own more games on STEAM and have used steam longer than 99% of people out there. That doesn't mean I don't see their latest moves for what they are.

If we want to argue if Gabe is moved by greed or power-lust, well, I attribute a lot of the latest talk and moves by Valve to be bred out of greed to keep the revenue flowing, however I will conceded it could very well be a power-lust issue. Something some of the most despised people in the industry have been accused of being, control freaks.

Steam is a great product, their latest moves however aren't very popular with me but I know why they are doing them. Just like Windows 8, I might not use it and will stick to 7 but I know why MS did it. It's the same with Valve. I don't like it, but I understand it.

 

[Lonyo]

I have to say i'm rather surprised at the trash talk directed at Steam. Gabe Newell and company have proven time and time again that they are not motivated purely by cash as other firms such as EA are, and actually truly care about the PC experience - Valve could have gone public years ago for monetary purposes which would have made Gabe billions richer, yet they haven't. They want control of their company, and they want to further the gaming experience. I've seen this guy do various presentations at universities and I really do believe he is genuine - he isn't a fraudulent capitalist IMO.

I am completely shocked by some of the responses here. Steam IMO is a wonderful service which continually offers sales prices on great games......I can't say i've seen any similar sales on Origin. Furthermore, the Steam experience has been completely pain free for years, with steamworks being the one DRM that is completely NOT intrusive or hindering the PC gaming experience whatsoever. I, for one, love Valve and company and many of my friends feel the same way. Again....really shocked by the steam hate...not sure where that is coming from.

Origin had a $5/£5/€5 sale maybe a week or two ago.
I got Crysis 2 and both Batman games for €5 each, and they had a load of other games too.

Just because YOU don't see the sales, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Then there are the GMG sales which have Steam games for less than Steam most of the time.
Then there's the fact that we live in a global world (duh), and US experiences of Steam prices/sales are vastly different from pretty much the entire rest of the world. Such as prices being crap on Steam, even when there are sales.

Then there's the whole user rights issues, which on a long term basis Steam doesn't give much comfort over. Consider how few rights you have over the licenses you have tied to your Steam account. Now consider the earlier point of Valve going public/being sold.
Now consider what the new owner might do to all those licenses tied to a single account which can get shut down/banned/etc at any time. Not to mention that you are seriously limited in how you could use multiple computers, and Valve wants to get into more than games... which really won't work, especially not in 2013 with a world of multiple connected devices.

 

[Nintendesert]

Origin had a $5/£5/€5 sale maybe a week or two ago.
I got Crysis 2 and both Batman games for €5 each, and they had a load of other games too.

Just because YOU don't see the sales, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Then there are the GMG sales which have Steam games for less than Steam most of the time.
Then there's the fact that we live in a global world (duh), and US experiences of Steam prices/sales are vastly different from pretty much the entire rest of the world. Such as prices being crap on Steam, even when there are sales.

Then there's the whole user rights issues, which on a long term basis Steam doesn't give much comfort over. Consider how few rights you have over the licenses you have tied to your Steam account. Now consider the earlier point of Valve going public/being sold.
Now consider what the new owner might do to all those licenses tied to a single account which can get shut down/banned/etc at any time. Not to mention that you are seriously limited in how you could use multiple computers, and Valve wants to get into more than games... which really won't work, especially not in 2013 with a world of multiple connected devices.

Another player pushing some pretty great deals at times with a lot more control about how I buy the game is Amazon.

 

[BladeVenom]

Xbox is a cash cow for them.

Overall Xbox has lost $4 billion. Whatever money it made in the last couple of years is relatively small compare to their OS and Office. Now they have to start the whole process over with the 720 with all the losses that a new generation imposes. Xbox was a waste of money and resources, based on the irrational fear that Sony was going to take over homes with their Playstation.

 

[Maximilian]

I have to say i'm rather surprised at the trash talk directed at Steam. Gabe Newell and company have proven time and time again that they are not motivated purely by cash as other firms such as EA are, and actually truly care about the PC experience - Valve could have gone public years ago for monetary purposes which would have made Gabe billions richer, yet they haven't. They want control of their company, and they want to further the gaming experience. I've seen this guy do various presentations at universities and I really do believe he is genuine - he isn't a fraudulent capitalist IMO.

I am completely shocked by some of the responses here. Steam IMO is a wonderful service which continually offers sales prices on great games......I can't say i've seen any similar sales on Origin. Furthermore, the Steam experience has been completely pain free for years, with steamworks being the one DRM that is completely NOT intrusive or hindering the PC gaming experience whatsoever. I, for one, love Valve and company and many of my friends feel the same way. Again....really shocked by the steam hate...not sure where that is coming from.

This tbh...

I really have to assume the people hating on steam are some sort of weird niche of gamer that have ended up here. Perhaps they're casual gamers or just stupid, i don't know.

Steam is the best thing to happen to PC gaming in a long time and valve are a great company!

When has valve ever dicked over a developer?
When has valve ever ruined a franchise?
When has valve ever put out a crappy game?
When has valve ever put out a game then abandoned it after a month?

If you don't like steam/valve and you call yourself a PC gamer than you're doing it wrong.

 

[Kalmah]

^

When I see people hating on Steam the only thing I can come up with is that either they are essentially a bird brain; repeating some nonsense that somebody once said on a forum someplace that had no merit whatsoever, or are technologically illiterate or blatantly refuse to keep up with the times(like my dad still using a landline phone that costs more than a boost mobile phone)...

I've never seen an ounce of shit from Valve and Steam. Games aren't getting deleted, cd keys aren't getting invalidated, I've never once seen Steam go offline(although this is inevitable to happen due to circumstances, I've still never seen it)

Things seems to be getting a little weird with Microsoft's move to a tablet-style os. An entire market-ecosystem could collapse at their hands. If MS would stop tailing Apple but instead do their own damn thing this wouldn't be happening. Why not a "Windows OS - Gaming Edition"? Turn their PC into something that can compete with consoles without a console? Make Microsoft official controllers, flight sticks and steering wheels for it. Make the shit easy but still keep it an open model for anybody (such as Steam) to operate.

 

[blackened23]

If you don't like steam/valve and you call yourself a PC gamer than you're doing it wrong.

I didn't want to say it, but that's what I was thinking. I don't see how anyone actively playing PC games could say bad things about steam.

I gotta laugh at all the alternatives mentioned like amazon. Chances of getting something with DRM like SecuROM, GFWL, etc, etc, etc - have fun with that - while that can happen on steam too (depending on developer) steamworks is the best DRM. Period.

 

[Evander]

I've read that Xbox & Xbox 360 most years has never made a profit and even when it started to the original investment into Xbox has never been recouped:

http://hothardware.com/News/Forbes-...oft-Will-Sell-Xbox-To-Sony--or-Barnes--Noble/
Now, it's true that if we step back and consider the entire Xbox console cycle, from 2003 - the end of calendar 2012, Microsoft has lost $2.8B on Xbox and Xbox 360. To put that in perspective, Redmond lost $2B on its online services division (excluding a goodwill charge of $6.2B) just last year.. If we exclude the development costs of the original Xbox from those figures and only consider 2005 - Q1 of fiscal year 2013, the gap is much smaller -- only about $426M.

It was obvious from Day 1 that Microsoft would lose money for the entire run of the original Xbox, and that the Xbox 360 would lose large amounts of cash its first few years. That's why the company was strongly considering launching a next-generation Xbox that would be profitable from Day 1. Xbox has been profitable for nearly five years, and if it hasn't finished paying back the balance sheet on the initial investment, it's at least moving the needle in a consistently profitable direction.

 

[Genx87]

Well you cant leave out R&D costs. I didnt know over the lifecycle of Mircosoft they would lose so much money from the xBox line. I knew they were losing money upfront but thought the last half of the product cycle would turn enough profit to make the investment worthwhile. Losing 2.6 billion over the lifecycle's of these consoles is terrible.

 

[frozentundra123456]

EA doesn't expect Origin to kill steam. They expect Origin to sell their games without giving a cut to anyone else. It does a fantastic job of that.

I have nothing against origin per se, it works fine. However, I am not sure EA is not "cutting off it nose to spite its face" so to speak by refusing to allow games on steam. Yes, they can keep the price higher by restricting the game to Origin, but if they allowed it to sell on Steam at a discounted price, the vastly increased sales might more than make up for the lower price.

But maybe the problem with EA is just that the last games I bought from them were ME3 and DA2. Thinking about that, it looks like the games themselves are the real problem--they suck.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I didn't want to say it, but that's what I was thinking. I don't see how anyone actively playing PC games could say bad things about steam.

I gotta laugh at all the alternatives mentioned like amazon. Chances of getting something with DRM like SecuROM, GFWL, etc, etc, etc - have fun with that - while that can happen on steam too (depending on developer) steamworks is the best DRM. Period.

I hated Steam when it first came out, but have come to accept it. I cannot understand the total immunity to criticism some are willing to give it though.

1. I had problems logging in and waited for several days for a response. When I finally received one, it was obviously a canned reply and had nothing to do with the problem that I was having.

2. Having to be online to set up offline mode--- the mother of all catch 22s and makes no sense whatsoever.

3. Why should I have to register a game on Steam that I buy the disk for?

I dont really play on line, so I dont use their social features, so I admit I am not using one of their benefits. Basically the benefit of Steam is the sales. Granted it is a big benefit, but they are far from perfect.

 

[Maximilian]

I hated Steam when it first came out, but have come to accept it. I cannot understand the total immunity to criticism some are willing to give it though.

1. I had problems logging in and waited for several days for a response. When I finally received one, it was obviously a canned reply and had nothing to do with the problem that I was having.

2. Having to be online to set up offline mode--- the mother of all catch 22s and makes no sense whatsoever.

3. Why should I have to register a game on Steam that I buy the disk for?

I dont really play on line, so I dont use their social features, so I admit I am not using one of their benefits. Basically the benefit of Steam is the sales. Granted it is a big benefit, but they are far from perfect.

1. Sucks dude, but its not a widespread or common problem. Steam IMO is like google, if you cant reach it then 99.9% of the time its a problem on your end.

2. Yeah that is balls, just need to plan ahead though.

3. Because the alternative to steam is tons of different crappy DRM schemes from different companies with different fooking T&C's. Can you imagine it? Having to call fricking ubisoft, then EA, then microsoft to get extra keys or to unblock your game keys or to be told "sorry we dont support this game anymore" which translates to "you are screwed we took down our activation servers". The alternative to steam is so much worse i cannot think of a way to adequately word how bad pc gaming DRM would be without steam.

I mean every single criticism levied at stream is absolutely crushed by the positives it brings in the face of what could have been if *insert any junk publisher here* had their own way with DRM/digital distribution.

 

[power_hour]

Overall Xbox has lost $4 billion. Whatever money it made in the last couple of years is relatively small compare to their OS and Office. Now they have to start the whole process over with the 720 with all the losses that a new generation imposes. Xbox was a waste of money and resources, based on the irrational fear that Sony was going to take over homes with their Playstation.

The business group running Xbox had made 1billion over last 11 quarters.
This move to cut ties is being driven by the bankers.

 

[showb1z]

I didn't want to say it, but that's what I was thinking. I don't see how anyone actively playing PC games could say bad things about steam.

I gotta laugh at all the alternatives mentioned like amazon. Chances of getting something with DRM like SecuROM, GFWL, etc, etc, etc - have fun with that - while that can happen on steam too (depending on developer) steamworks is the best DRM. Period.

Uhm, I bought 6 games in the holiday sales last year, only thing I got on steam was Sleeping Dogs when they screwed up the discount to 91%.
The other games I got from Amazon/GMG for cheaper and they all activate on steam.
And for older games there's no better place than GOG, DRM free and they actually do the effort of making them work for you. Steam gives zero support, they basically sell games that don't even work on an OS less than a decade old unless you fix them yourself.
I love steam, I have something like 120 games on it, but it's not infallible and other than my friends list all the community stuff is just fluff to me. Like people have said here before, if all the big publishers set up their own exclusive service Steam would be in major problems.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The alternative to steam is so much worse i cannot think of a way to adequately word how bad pc gaming DRM would be without steam.[/I]

I mean every single criticism levied at stream is absolutely crushed by the positives it brings in the face of what could have been if *insert any junk publisher here* had their own way with DRM/digital distribution.

This is how I feel as well. I will not be buying games from each individual developer. I don't want to have 20 different pieces of software spying on me, collecting data, serving up adds, and generally becoming more and more bloated and obnoxious year after year just so I can play video games. One of the best things about Steam is that it has remained unobtrusive. Sure it collects some data, and occasionally serves some adds, but for the most part it is well behaved. There when I want it, quietly tucked away when I don't.

Do you really think that if we have to have 20 different programs installed in order to download and install different publishers games that they would all be so well behaved? Even if they were, the little annoyances of Steam multiplied by 20 would probably be enough to get me to shut down the computer and pick up a Xbox.

 

[Red Storm]

Valve releases maybe one game a year.
It's almost a certainty they make the vast majority of their money selling the games of other developers and taking a cut.
Valve would probably lose money hand over fist if they were just a software developer, because they don't release much product, and have very long development times.

Valve makes a lot of money from games like TF2. I believe Gabe said that one content creator alone (made something that was picked by Valve to use in-game) has made over $500k since that time, and that's just one guy getting his cut. Valve makes money off of every item sold in TF2's store, so that one "free" game is raking it in. On top of their yearly releases which sell well, I don't see why it's hard to imagine that they make good money from non-steam stuff. They are a private company, that lets them move at their own pace unlike EA who are slaves to their shareholders.

 

[PingSpike]

Agreed. GFWL is the single worst thing to have happened to PC Gaming in the past decade.

Hardly. That honor belongs to the original xbox. Microsoft payed big bucks to turn a lot of traditional PC developers into xbox developers to get that thing off the ground. We can argue about whether or not those developers would have survived in their previous state or if the landscape has recovered but the fact is that hurt innovation since most AAA titles released on the PC around that time had to be constrained in design to meet that console's tighter restrictions as well. Prior to this time PC Games usually featured much more dynamic world's than console games and ports weren't even that common.

Microsoft has never given a shit about PC Gaming. Anything they have done on that front has been an effort to improve the bottom line of their other businesses. Direct3D was introduced merely to kill cross platform development in the womb to enhance operating system lock in. As soon as that worked they turned it around and used it as the stick with which to beat people into OS upgrades. Prior to that they of course did their best to redirect PC game development to the xbox to try and bootstrap themselves into console / home theater market.

GFWL live was just one of Microsofts many forgettable turds. They didn't push hard enough on it for it to do much serious or long term damage. Recall that cross plate form play options required the PC game controlled be crippled to make the console version look better. GFWL was just a misguided effort to try and wrest some control of the platform from other players, then you make the PC versions suck so much ass that the customers would move instead to the console. The requirement for an xbox controller? Why would that make any sense outside of the context of trying to guide those caught in the GFWL net into their console realm. This of course never worked, Microsoft didn't care about PC Gaming and others have more clout than they do so the whole thing was pretty DOA. I doubt they care though, if it converted a few people it was probably considered a success. There was no goal to fix PC Gaming, to recommit to it. It was entirely an effort to muddy the waters and make PC Gaming a more painful experience so that console games would look like the better option.

Microsoft surely has some people that care about gaming on the PC under its roof. But collectively the company has never shown any real interest in it except to exploit it to further its other goals.