Microsoft gives up on spyware

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Originally posted by: jagec
Only a user with no common sense and no firewall will get infected. It's sort of like STDs, really.

Maintaining an updated snapshot of your OS FTW!
Has saved my a*s quite a few times (opening the wrong e-mail in Eudora for instance )

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Spyware is all the user's fault. If people know how to browse, where to go, where not to go, what to use to browse, etc... Spyware would barely be an issue. I can't even remember the last time I had anything bugging my laptop and I'm online all day every day. It's people that don't know what they are doing that get it.

And are there really major companies out there that don't have an Image system in place for setting up PCs? I can have a fresh PC imaged in 15 minutes and then we have a stupid 1hr+ script it has to run through but that's it. It's all automated.

QFMFT!!!! I can't imagine this statement being said any better, if this hadn't been posted, I would have said the EXACT same thing! :thumbsup:

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Ulfwald
Time to really switch over to Linux servers, workstations, etc.

Normally I'd agree, but when the majority switch over, so will the malware/virus writers.

 

[enyce2k9]

i just fixed a friends pc today, it was truelly bloated with the adware/spyware crap.
in 3 hours i left it as good as new by running a series of tasks which include:

-adaware/spybot use
-modify registry values
-individually erase uknown .exe files on \win & \system32 dirs.

anyways my pc & laptop are always clean, its the n00bs that get infected.

 

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
You guys are pretty damn naive if you take what Microsoft says with any sort of face value.

The spyware/malware problem is a direct result of Microsoft refusing to cater to the end user while wholeheartedly opening up the OS to any random developer in an effort to preserve marketshare. Instead of making XP by default a 'protected' OS where the user must enter admin passwords for any significant changes to the computer, XP makes everything completely open by default and then uses the vulnerability to promote the business models of virus-prevention software, malware-removal software, etc.

This IS Microsoft's fault.. it's just that in the US legal system, Microsoft seems immune to prosecution. Any dipsh!t that actually understands computers could make changes to Windows to get rid of 99% of the malware problem.

Here's how:
- focus on the USER experience, not the developer privileges. For example, why should the developer be allowed the power to pop up infinite random messages, popups, and other windows when one opens a website? Why should Internet Explorer even support those commands?
- PROTECT the system. Take some advice from linux and require root/admin privileges to all significant changes to the OS. For example... games and office apps should NOT require admin privileges to install provided that they do not create any other junk than a start menu link AND a program install in its own userspace directory. There is no fvcking reason any program.. ANY program should install itself in memory on startup, a program just for providing links to itself in startup, install multiple files in any other directory than a single common 'shared file' directory and the program directory.
- Provide protection layers IN THE OS. For example, any program that wants to start AUTOMATICALLY should be required to make a call to an imbedded kernel object that prompts USER response. The OS should monitor all file changes and registry changes made by the program on installation. So, if a user uninstalls a program, the user is not forced to rely on the programmers of said program to be 'honest'. Instead, the OS will perform the removal and leave nothing behind.
- Get rid of the 'run a preventative program' mentality. Virus-prevention, malware-prevention, and anything else that is made to 'clean' the system is MALWARE, imo. The user should not be blamed if he/she gets a virus - unless he/she was blindly entering admin passwords while a questionnable program is being installed. He/she should NOT be required to run a virus prevention program by default. The OS should automatically be able to detect if a file is a virus by its behavior and by default prevent any changes that could affect the stability of the system. For example, a program should get an 'access list' just like users in a system. 'Bob' the computer owner could say 'MP3 Renamer.exe' only gets access to c:\Bob's Mp3s.. and not the entire system by default, like it is now.
- Allow the user to control whether or not a website gets access to cookies, plugins, popups or anything. Allow the user to decide if he/she wants a website to remove the titlebar, status bar, buttons, etc from IE when he/she opens a web page.
- Provide a 'container' directory. It is a directory on the computer assigned UNDER individual user privileges that allows anything placed in it ONLY access to the container directory. For example, Bob wants to look at 'funny.exe' that he got sent from his uncle in Nigeria. Bob can freely execute it since it is in the 'container' directory and it can be easily closed and it cannot do anything that could affect anything but the container directory.



There's so many things that could be done.. but they would require Microsoft giving the USER more of a choice.. and they sure as hell won't do that as long as they're still a monopoly and do not have to worry about publishers making their software compatible with other OS's.

Fvck Microsoft.

that would be a good idea for most users of tech forums that know how to use and operate computers, but your grandma who already has enought problems finding the AOL icon would be lost. putting the user in control isn't the best idea if the user doesn't know WTF to do. many firewall and antispyware programs prompt users to either allow or block program to access the internet or insert themselves into startup and i've seen ton's of people who don't know WTF they are doing basically lock themselves out of everything by always hitting block. the problem is that computers are not second nature to all so making them easier to use for the dumb people to create a higher user base is often the better decision overall.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by: enyce2k9
i just fixed a friends pc today, it was truelly bloated with the adware/spyware crap.
in 3 hours i left it as good as new by running a series of tasks which include:

-adaware/spybot use
-modify registry values
-individually erase uknown .exe files on \win & \system32 dirs.

anyways my pc & laptop are always clean, its the n00bs that get infected.

Depending on what infection your friend had his computer is still probably infected and or has left overs/remnants of a bunch of spyware programs.

Spybot and Adaware no longer cut it.

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
You guys are pretty damn naive if you take what Microsoft says with any sort of face value.

The spyware/malware problem is a direct result of Microsoft refusing to cater to the end user while wholeheartedly opening up the OS to any random developer in an effort to preserve marketshare. Instead of making XP by default a 'protected' OS where the user must enter admin passwords for any significant changes to the computer, XP makes everything completely open by default and then uses the vulnerability to promote the business models of virus-prevention software, malware-removal software, etc.

This IS Microsoft's fault.. it's just that in the US legal system, Microsoft seems immune to prosecution. Any dipsh!t that actually understands computers could make changes to Windows to get rid of 99% of the malware problem.

Here's how:
- focus on the USER experience, not the developer privileges. For example, why should the developer be allowed the power to pop up infinite random messages, popups, and other windows when one opens a website? Why should Internet Explorer even support those commands?
- PROTECT the system. Take some advice from linux and require root/admin privileges to all significant changes to the OS. For example... games and office apps should NOT require admin privileges to install provided that they do not create any other junk than a start menu link AND a program install in its own userspace directory. There is no fvcking reason any program.. ANY program should install itself in memory on startup, a program just for providing links to itself in startup, install multiple files in any other directory than a single common 'shared file' directory and the program directory.
- Provide protection layers IN THE OS. For example, any program that wants to start AUTOMATICALLY should be required to make a call to an imbedded kernel object that prompts USER response. The OS should monitor all file changes and registry changes made by the program on installation. So, if a user uninstalls a program, the user is not forced to rely on the programmers of said program to be 'honest'. Instead, the OS will perform the removal and leave nothing behind.
- Get rid of the 'run a preventative program' mentality. Virus-prevention, malware-prevention, and anything else that is made to 'clean' the system is MALWARE, imo. The user should not be blamed if he/she gets a virus - unless he/she was blindly entering admin passwords while a questionnable program is being installed. He/she should NOT be required to run a virus prevention program by default. The OS should automatically be able to detect if a file is a virus by its behavior and by default prevent any changes that could affect the stability of the system. For example, a program should get an 'access list' just like users in a system. 'Bob' the computer owner could say 'MP3 Renamer.exe' only gets access to c:\Bob's Mp3s.. and not the entire system by default, like it is now.
- Allow the user to control whether or not a website gets access to cookies, plugins, popups or anything. Allow the user to decide if he/she wants a website to remove the titlebar, status bar, buttons, etc from IE when he/she opens a web page.
- Provide a 'container' directory. It is a directory on the computer assigned UNDER individual user privileges that allows anything placed in it ONLY access to the container directory. For example, Bob wants to look at 'funny.exe' that he got sent from his uncle in Nigeria. Bob can freely execute it since it is in the 'container' directory and it can be easily closed and it cannot do anything that could affect anything but the container directory.



There's so many things that could be done.. but they would require Microsoft giving the USER more of a choice.. and they sure as hell won't do that as long as they're still a monopoly and do not have to worry about publishers making their software compatible with other OS's.

Fvck Microsoft.

Yes but if they did that everyone would acuse them of copying Linux/Unix/Apple lol.
The apple cult members will say that generally about the GUI, when apple took it from xerox, and then they'll say that about the new gadgets feature in vista, when apple took it from konfabulator, haha idea theft happens in computer

I think what they are talking about with this though is not driveby downloaded stuff, but like Kazaa, where people willingly install the software and never read the license agreement to what is actually being installed. In a home environment on say an MacOS/Linux would ask them for their password, they'll hand it over because yeah i said it can install this software.

Are their massive improvments that microsoft can make? YES, they've made some already, but users giving wide open permission to install something they know nothing about...only to be later informed, um u just gave ur computer permission to install spyware. Well that can happen on other OS's just as well. Removal process is another screw up on XP's part, it shouldn't dig as deep into the OS as the many pieces of malware out there can.

If you think about it Linux is idiot proof, because it's not anywhere as easy to install stuff on some distros as windows at least for someone new to it... There's some protection right there

I use MacOS 10.4, Fedora Linux, Mandriva Linux, Ubuntu Linux, Fedora Linux, and Windows XP. Newest computer being XP, because well im a Gamer... Yes I have too many computers... Every OS has flaws of course, Windows needs some fixing, and I'm hoping Vista fixes as many problems as promised.

Yeah that rootkits... that one sony made... You know if that was some 16 year old kid making/distributingh it, he would have gotten 5-10 years in prison probabily, sony barely got a slap on the wrist.


This is way too long im going to sleep now....

 

[0roo0roo]

spitzer is god
http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/intera..._display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000903165

seems like he's the only government type standing up for consumers

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
What is a rootkit?

its where sony breaks your o/s behind your back to install copy protection when you try to play some media you bought from them...because obviously you as a paying customer are the one they should be harrassing.

 

[Czar]

Just so people know, with Vista, Internet Explorer always runs with guest account priviledges so spyware through IE becomes less likely to happen.

And ofcorse like people have said, spyware gets there because of dumb users.