Microsoft gives up on spyware

[Goosemaster]

Next Page: Human stupidity.

LOFL

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
What is a rootkit?

think of it as the mother of all viruses

sort of

nah..think of it as kevin bacon acting like an invisible perv in that movie about the invisible perv where he does everything he wants to unsuspecting victims...

 

[Beige]

We should start getting programs that resend these malwares and rootkits back at the original computer. I do not know how these things work so wth...right?

There could also be something cool like something that hacks into the computer and shuts all the fans down so it will overheat and die lol...

Maybe i am giving these hacking fvckers ideas now..
Time to shut up.. :x

 

[zanieladie]

Yikes...

 

[db]

Originally posted by: jagec
Only a user with no common sense and no firewall will get infected. It's sort of like STDs, really.

 

[JDrake]

Originally posted by: flashbacck

"Social engineering is a very, very effective technique. We have statistics that show significant infection rates for the social engineering malware. Phishing is a major problem because there really is no patch for human stupidity," he said.

:laugh:

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: jeffeh
Not to sure what to expect from Vista. They seem to be dropping all the important aspects that people want. Oh well, their lose. All hail Apple

You think phishers care of a user is on Windows or a Mac? If the world switched from MS to Apple, malware writers would have a new target audience. Why would any of them waste their time with a few thousand Macs when they could terrorize millions of Windows boxes more easily?

The problem isn't with Microsoft, it's with lax restrictions on internet usage in the workplace and human stupidity.

 

[CZroe]

I don't understand. Whatever happened to rebooting and loading a disc-based utility to remove the malware and check the integrity of every file that a rootkit could be embedded in or could have replaced? IT'S STILL POSSIBLE. Just like a real defragmenter that defragments OS files AND the file system, it doesn't seem to exist because software wants to pretend that your system is the only system in the world it could ever run on.

I've dreamed for ages of being about to connect a USB cable or HDD to a clean PC and being able to fire up a registry editor, virus scanner and malware remover that KNOWS it is scanning a secondary drive (and makes the necessary changes in THAT DRIVE'S system files and registry). Sure, NTFS complicates it but all you'd need is the username and password of every user on the system (or at least every user you intend to keep).

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: CZroe
I don't understand. Whatever happened to rebooting and loading a disc-based utility to remove the malware and check the integrity of every file that a rootkit could be embedded in or could have replaced? IT'S STILL POSSIBLE. Just like a real defragmenter that defragments OS files AND the file system, it doesn't seem to exist because software wants to pretend that your system is the only system in the world it could ever run on.

I've dreamed for ages of being about to connect a USB cable or HDD to a clean PC and being able to fire up a registry editor, virus scanner and malware remover that KNOWS it is scanning a secondary drive (and makes the necessary changes in THAT DRIVE'S system files and registry). Sure, NTFS complicates it but all you'd need is the username and password of every user on the system (or at least every user you intend to keep).

It takes me ~20 minutes to blow back a clean image, OTOH it takes 4-6 hours to clean a heavily infected PC. For onsite trouble-shooting at $50/hour pick your poison.

 

[Yossarian]

"In some cases, there really is no way to recover without nuking the systems from orbit"

+1 for Aliens reference

 

[mugs]

The best way to stop spyware is at the user level. Don't let idiots use computers and there is no problem.

 

[Juno]

that's lame. i'm going for novell suse linux 10 xgl when it comes out!

 

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Originally posted by: Juno
that's lame. i'm going for novell suse linux 10 xgl when it comes out!

i'm seriously considering switching to linux once Vista comes out.. or just staying with XP.

 

[pulse8]

Spyware and malware companies should be considered on the same level as virus writers.

 

[Kelemvor]

Spyware is all the user's fault. If people know how to browse, where to go, where not to go, what to use to browse, etc... Spyware would barely be an issue. I can't even remember the last time I had anything bugging my laptop and I'm online all day every day. It's people that don't know what they are doing that get it.

And are there really major companies out there that don't have an Image system in place for setting up PCs? I can have a fresh PC imaged in 15 minutes and then we have a stupid 1hr+ script it has to run through but that's it. It's all automated.

 

[JS80]

$100 billion to the first person that invents a patch to fix Human Stupidity.

 

[Chebago]

The article doesn't really say that they are given up on spyware, but that there are more advanced spyware, like rootkits and the like, that are near impossible to detect and for those, it is adviseable to have a system to re-image the computers. This would be more for businesses that have lots of computers with communal software that could be wiped and then reinstalled automatically without the users ever knowing.

Coincidently, my school does this every now and again, and since our profiles are seperated and we can't install new programs, the users never know that the OS was wiped and re-installed...

 

[brxndxn]

You guys are pretty damn naive if you take what Microsoft says with any sort of face value.

The spyware/malware problem is a direct result of Microsoft refusing to cater to the end user while wholeheartedly opening up the OS to any random developer in an effort to preserve marketshare. Instead of making XP by default a 'protected' OS where the user must enter admin passwords for any significant changes to the computer, XP makes everything completely open by default and then uses the vulnerability to promote the business models of virus-prevention software, malware-removal software, etc.

This IS Microsoft's fault.. it's just that in the US legal system, Microsoft seems immune to prosecution. Any dipsh!t that actually understands computers could make changes to Windows to get rid of 99% of the malware problem.

Here's how:
- focus on the USER experience, not the developer privileges. For example, why should the developer be allowed the power to pop up infinite random messages, popups, and other windows when one opens a website? Why should Internet Explorer even support those commands?
- PROTECT the system. Take some advice from linux and require root/admin privileges to all significant changes to the OS. For example... games and office apps should NOT require admin privileges to install provided that they do not create any other junk than a start menu link AND a program install in its own userspace directory. There is no fvcking reason any program.. ANY program should install itself in memory on startup, a program just for providing links to itself in startup, install multiple files in any other directory than a single common 'shared file' directory and the program directory.
- Provide protection layers IN THE OS. For example, any program that wants to start AUTOMATICALLY should be required to make a call to an imbedded kernel object that prompts USER response. The OS should monitor all file changes and registry changes made by the program on installation. So, if a user uninstalls a program, the user is not forced to rely on the programmers of said program to be 'honest'. Instead, the OS will perform the removal and leave nothing behind.
- Get rid of the 'run a preventative program' mentality. Virus-prevention, malware-prevention, and anything else that is made to 'clean' the system is MALWARE, imo. The user should not be blamed if he/she gets a virus - unless he/she was blindly entering admin passwords while a questionnable program is being installed. He/she should NOT be required to run a virus prevention program by default. The OS should automatically be able to detect if a file is a virus by its behavior and by default prevent any changes that could affect the stability of the system. For example, a program should get an 'access list' just like users in a system. 'Bob' the computer owner could say 'MP3 Renamer.exe' only gets access to c:\Bob's Mp3s.. and not the entire system by default, like it is now.
- Allow the user to control whether or not a website gets access to cookies, plugins, popups or anything. Allow the user to decide if he/she wants a website to remove the titlebar, status bar, buttons, etc from IE when he/she opens a web page.
- Provide a 'container' directory. It is a directory on the computer assigned UNDER individual user privileges that allows anything placed in it ONLY access to the container directory. For example, Bob wants to look at 'funny.exe' that he got sent from his uncle in Nigeria. Bob can freely execute it since it is in the 'container' directory and it can be easily closed and it cannot do anything that could affect anything but the container directory.



There's so many things that could be done.. but they would require Microsoft giving the USER more of a choice.. and they sure as hell won't do that as long as they're still a monopoly and do not have to worry about publishers making their software compatible with other OS's.

Fvck Microsoft.

 

[Kenazo]

Will making users for myself that don't have admin rights and running w/ those prevent these malware things that install below the OS? I'm careful w/ my browsing, but better safe than sorry, I suppose.

 

[brxndxn]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Will making users for myself that don't have admin rights and running w/ those prevent these malware things that install below the OS? I'm careful w/ my browsing, but better safe than sorry, I suppose.

Yes. They will prevent the vast majority of spyware problems. It's just that the way XP is coded, it is a bitch to always have to switch users.. where in linux it's just a simply quick command requiring a password.

 

[bleeb]

Time to start buying and using the true computing power machines APPLE.

 

[SampSon]

The only solution is litigation.

 

[SokaMoka]

Well sucks for them... :goes back to working on his Linux boxes :

 

[mchammer]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
You guys are pretty damn naive if you take what Microsoft says with any sort of face value.

The spyware/malware problem is a direct result of Microsoft refusing to cater to the end user while wholeheartedly opening up the OS to any random developer in an effort to preserve marketshare. Instead of making XP by default a 'protected' OS where the user must enter admin passwords for any significant changes to the computer, XP makes everything completely open by default and then uses the vulnerability to promote the business models of virus-prevention software, malware-removal software, etc.

This IS Microsoft's fault.. it's just that in the US legal system, Microsoft seems immune to prosecution. Any dipsh!t that actually understands computers could make changes to Windows to get rid of 99% of the malware problem.

Here's how:
- focus on the USER experience, not the developer privileges. For example, why should the developer be allowed the power to pop up infinite random messages, popups, and other windows when one opens a website? Why should Internet Explorer even support those commands?
- PROTECT the system. Take some advice from linux and require root/admin privileges to all significant changes to the OS. For example... games and office apps should NOT require admin privileges to install provided that they do not create any other junk than a start menu link AND a program install in its own userspace directory. There is no fvcking reason any program.. ANY program should install itself in memory on startup, a program just for providing links to itself in startup, install multiple files in any other directory than a single common 'shared file' directory and the program directory.
- Provide protection layers IN THE OS. For example, any program that wants to start AUTOMATICALLY should be required to make a call to an imbedded kernel object that prompts USER response. The OS should monitor all file changes and registry changes made by the program on installation. So, if a user uninstalls a program, the user is not forced to rely on the programmers of said program to be 'honest'. Instead, the OS will perform the removal and leave nothing behind.
- Get rid of the 'run a preventative program' mentality. Virus-prevention, malware-prevention, and anything else that is made to 'clean' the system is MALWARE, imo. The user should not be blamed if he/she gets a virus - unless he/she was blindly entering admin passwords while a questionnable program is being installed. He/she should NOT be required to run a virus prevention program by default. The OS should automatically be able to detect if a file is a virus by its behavior and by default prevent any changes that could affect the stability of the system. For example, a program should get an 'access list' just like users in a system. 'Bob' the computer owner could say 'MP3 Renamer.exe' only gets access to c:\Bob's Mp3s.. and not the entire system by default, like it is now.
- Allow the user to control whether or not a website gets access to cookies, plugins, popups or anything. Allow the user to decide if he/she wants a website to remove the titlebar, status bar, buttons, etc from IE when he/she opens a web page.
- Provide a 'container' directory. It is a directory on the computer assigned UNDER individual user privileges that allows anything placed in it ONLY access to the container directory. For example, Bob wants to look at 'funny.exe' that he got sent from his uncle in Nigeria. Bob can freely execute it since it is in the 'container' directory and it can be easily closed and it cannot do anything that could affect anything but the container directory.



There's so many things that could be done.. but they would require Microsoft giving the USER more of a choice.. and they sure as hell won't do that as long as they're still a monopoly and do not have to worry about publishers making their software compatible with other OS's.

Fvck Microsoft.

They already have most of this stuff. It is my understanding that at the current time the users don't want to jump through too many hoops to do stuff. People find it hard to understand that there can be more than one account on a PC. If they were prompted from time to time to enter a password to make changes, they would just write it on their monitor and enter it all the time.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: mugs
Don't let idiots use computers and there is no problem.

So basically, in your average company
(a)the sysadmin will have a computer
(b)that one smart guy from Accounting will have a computer.

Everyone else will have to be issued a big slab of stone, and a chisel