microsoft certification- start with mcse?

[lockmac]

Hi guys. I am a unit student wanting to do some certification courses. Anyways, i want to get into network administration and networking sorta stuff when ive finished. Which is the best Microsoft Course to start off with?

Is is too much to start off with the Windows 2003 Server one (MCSE)? I have had experience in setting and administering these but obviously not as in depth as the certification will need.

Can anyone give me some advice please as to which courses are the best to start off with?

Also... whats the best books? I was thinking of chopping out a bit of money and getting this who series...

http://www.buy.com/prod/mcse-s...loc/106/202434244.html

Any advice appreciated. Thankyou

 

[lockmac]

bump

 

[Joemonkey]

If you play your cards right you can get MCP, MCSA, and MCSE by taking only 7 tests. You should try to get a job where they offer reimbursement for the tests, but as time goes on the certs mean less compared to working experience.

 

[brownstone]

I'm certainly not an expert on this so take it with a grain of salt, but I personally wonder how much relevance the MCSE cert has anymore. Granted, many if not most companies still use server 2003, but it seems like you would be getting in on the tail end of things. Perhaps it would be better to get server 2008 certs and be ahead of the curve...?

I thought about this quite a bit myself and I ended up buying the MS training books which can now be found on my FS/T thread if you are interested.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: lockmac
Hi guys. I am a unit student wanting to do some certification courses. Anyways, i want to get into network administration and networking sorta stuff when ive finished. Which is the best Microsoft Course to start off with?

Is is too much to start off with the Windows 2003 Server one (MCSE)? I have had experience in setting and administering these but obviously not as in depth as the certification will need.

Can anyone give me some advice please as to which courses are the best to start off with?

Also... whats the best books? I was thinking of chopping out a bit of money and getting this who series...

http://www.buy.com/prod/mcse-s...loc/106/202434244.html

Any advice appreciated. Thankyou

Without experience you're not going to be going straight into a networking roll, no matter what certs you have.

You'll probably have to do service desk or something else crap first. So wait till you have a job then get some certs.

 

[lastig21]

The MCSE is a great certification, but without alot of professional experience, it would look suspect on a resume. The books are cheap now (used or Amazon marketplace), and I would definitely recommend picking up a couple and working your way through them. At $125 a test though, I would take the suggestion above and look for employment that builds experience and helps to pay for the exams.

My personal suggestion would be to get your MCSA (cheap books and great core knowledge), and then consider jumping to the Server 2008 track. This will show you have a background in both systems, and keeps you from throwing so much money towards a technology that has already been replaced (thought not highly adopted yet).

 

[alkemyst]

It's pretty much impossible to get a net admin role today without prior major experience without a MCSE (that's current).

I am going the Cisco route now, but I will be picking up a MCSE eventually.

A+ and Net+ are good entry level ones...

We get people applying here than think installing the CD's for 2K3 and a XP client years ago makes them guru's though.

 

[Apathetic]

The MCSE trains you to be a microsoft system admin - not a network admin. If you're really interested in becoming a network admin you'll probably want to start with a CCNA.

linky

Dave

 

[TechBoyJK]

I'd first go get some entry level certs. Gives you something to put on your resume and gives you a feel for what you are getting into.

First > Network+
Second > A+

Then go for your MCSA in 2003. It will be 4 exams. You can find study guides at www.cramsession.com, and you get very helpful videos from Lynda.com or CBT nuggets. I've bought several vids from both. I originally found the videos on torrent sites where they are readily available..

Once you get your MCSA, you can either decide to take the 3 next tests and get your MCSE, or move on to 2008 or take some electives to spread the knowledge around. Stuff like SQL Server or Exchange or something like that.

the 2003 track is the last track to offer the MCSE/MCSA, so if you decide to go the 2008 route, you won't be getting any kind of MCSA/E for that track. Its not available.

 

[TheSlamma]

Do employers still even look for these?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Do employers still even look for these?

no.
experience/knowledge >>>>>>> certs

 

[hiromizu]

I got my MCP, MCDST and MCSE using the same books. Otherwise in terms of job relevancy, I'd say 75% is relevant where 50% is crucial to know and the other 25% which CAN be used effectively while there are better 3rd party alternatives. The other 25% is useless. Prior job experience is more important but these can help get you through that big door.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Do employers still even look for these?

no.
experience/knowledge >>>>>>> certs

It's going to be pretty rare for a new hire to be handed over a network without any certs today even with experience.

Someone with no experience is going to need them.

I have 10 years+ under my belt and certs still come up at some interviews. I have never needed them to get a job eventually though, they would have opened up more doors and probably given me more calls had I had them listed.

I am moving over to the network side and without Cisco or Juniper certs the chance of getting hired for a good job are slim with with experience.

 

[lockmac]

OK thanks for all the replies guys.

I will be getting my CCNA at university next semester, and the cost of the exams and stuff really isnt that important to me at the moment (mum and dad are going to help me).

 

[alkemyst]

Seriously CCNA is a 2 month deal for someone that will dedicate time to read, push it to 4 months if you are slow. Get a Boson exam pack to hone your skills and take the test. If you want schooling save it for CCNP.

I know dudes getting $1000 in materials (CBT, CiscoPress, Lammle, Sybex and Boson/transcender etc) taking 4 months and still not getting 100% and then upset. The thing is these tests are designed to be PASS/FAIL not graded. If you are getting 100's each time you have either over prepared and could have been onward to the next test or you got lucky. You should be able to have enough materials for under $500 to get you well through CCNA easily or under $200 if you want to spend more time hunting down stuff online...in other books.

Take it and if you fail it, take it again. Certify4less.com is an excellent link for cheap test vouchers.

 

[smashp]

Experience is the most important item. Certifications ( up to date ones) show a commitment to the Job.

I interview all our network technicians that apply for jobs and you are going to have to pass a technical interview also.


I can determine a Paper Cert in about 5 minutes.


That being said, hit the books, do the lab work and dedicate yourself to the job and it will work for you

 

[alkemyst]

CCNA is supposed to be a paper cert in reality. It's designed to get you in the door. It's doubtful many can write the CCNP without a nice (not necessarily expensive) lab to work with.

Just typing the trivial commands in people find they retain it a ton faster.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
CCNA is supposed to be a paper cert in reality. It's designed to get you in the door. It's doubtful many can write the CCNP without a nice (not necessarily expensive) lab to work with.

Just typing the trivial commands in people find they retain it a ton faster.

Experience is what will make everything you learn chasing the CCNA sink in.

The certs come in handy, because at some point the employer will think "well, if they passed the exams, I'm sure I can teach them what they need to know".. it just sets a precedent that you have a certain level of awareness about a certain technology.

I say go for them. I'd cram Network+ and get the cert before jumping into CCNA. It will make CCNA easier and you'll already have a cert.

 

[James Bondx]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Seriously CCNA is a 2 month deal for someone that will dedicate time to read, push it to 4 months if you are slow. Get a Boson exam pack to hone your skills and take the test. If you want schooling save it for CCNP.

I know dudes getting $1000 in materials (CBT, CiscoPress, Lammle, Sybex and Boson/transcender etc) taking 4 months and still not getting 100% and then upset. The thing is these tests are designed to be PASS/FAIL not graded. If you are getting 100's each time you have either over prepared and could have been onward to the next test or you got lucky. You should be able to have enough materials for under $500 to get you well through CCNA easily or under $200 if you want to spend more time hunting down stuff online...in other books.

Take it and if you fail it, take it again. Certify4less.com is an excellent link for cheap test vouchers.

It always surprises me when people say this. The CCNA is not nearly as easy as many people make it out to be, as it has gotten progressively harder over the years. I agree that getting the lab packages is overkill - it isn't necessary to spend more than a couple hundred total, but it's no shoe in.

Get some good books and download Boson/Dynagen at the very, very least. Without at least some hands on experience, you will not pass.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Do employers still even look for these?

Some do. I'm a sysadmin for state government, and MCSE is a requirement for applying to positions like mine.

Of course it depends on who's writing the position description. I'm thinking they make this a requirement simply because they get so many applications already.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: James Bond

It always surprises me when people say this. The CCNA is not nearly as easy as many people make it out to be, as it has gotten progressively harder over the years. I agree that getting the lab packages is overkill - it isn't necessary to spend more than a couple hundred total, but it's no shoe in.

Get some good books and download Boson/Dynagen at the very, very least. Without at least some hands on experience, you will not pass.

CCNA is not for everyone....I am working on it right now. I passed CCENT last month, going to do CCNA/ICND2 next week.

CCNA is not designed to require hands on....a few sims should suffice.

CCNA has really not gotten harder it's just more people are attempting it that should not be.

That said most find the CCNP an easier test due to it being more specific to each 'book' where CCNA is all over the place.

You need to know more-in-depth for the CCNP, but you know your questions will be limited to one frame of thought.

 

[wnied]

I agree with Hungfarover. I too work for my local government and during the interview process they were automatically weeding out those who came in without certifications. Experience is necessary and regarded more highly, but without certifications to show a dedication to learning content, you cant expect to even be considered.

~wnied~

 

[lockmac]

What about the MCDST (Microsoft Certified Desktop Support Technician)?

It seems like a pretty strait forward certification and was thinking this would be good to get as ultimately, im sure my first job after uni is probably going to be a Level 1 or Level 2 support technician.... although im just a bit worried about it being outdated as vista seems to be the go these days

Any input appreciated