Microcontroller Question

[Burner]

I'm looking for a fast microprocessor and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. It didn't seem approbriate to ask in any of the other forums so I figured here was the best place.
Requirements:
1. Fast (at least 50MIPS, preferably more)
2. Reasonable packaging, I can do surface mount soldiering, but I don't think I can do some of the more specialized packagings. It would be preferable if it I was able to put it in a socket so that it is easy to replace, but not really necessary.
3. In circuit programmable. I want to hook it up to my computer and dump my code to it. No popping it in and out of the circuit into another programmer type stuff.
4. Good compiler. Nothing pisses me off more then a compiler that decides it should assign more then one of my variables to one spot in ROM.
5. Doesn't require a complex process to fab. I would prefer to fab a 2 layer board, unless 4 layer boards are relatively cheap to do (I've never made one, and I don't think the CAD program I have will do them)

Desireable things on the chip:
1. All the RAM and ROM on board. Additional RAM expansion is alright, but I don't need the hassle of wiring up that stuff.
2. Has at least two serial ports. Four would be desireable.
3. Has an onboard PWM generator, of course 2 would be better.
4. Has onboard encoder input, this isn't really necessary as I can do it with a pic, but it would be highly desireable.
5. Has a fast multiplier, waiting for 200 cycles to multipy sort of defeats the purpose of a fast chip.
6. Has lots of timers, if I have to do onboard PWM generation or encoder counting or something more timers makes things so much easier.
7. I would prefer 16 bit, but 8 bit is most likely acceptable especially if it is fairly fast.
8. Runs at 5v, 3.3v is alright but it just means another voltage regulator.
9. Should be cheap (under 50 a chip would be nice, and no 20k development environment)

Of course all my requirements are somewhat flexible but it has to be fast. I think I put them basically in the order of desireability. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. So far I haven't really been able to find any that look like they will work that well. The only fast processor I've found has an awful compiler which makes it basically useless.

Thanks.

 

[blahblah99]

Depending on your budget, speed requirements, and complexity of application, there are a variety of different microprocessors. I have messed around with intel strongarm boards, cirrus logic boards, BASIC stamps, PIC micro-controllers and found that pics and basic stamps aren't really that great when it comes to calculations and number crunching while with the strongarm boards can basically do anything you program it to do. A developement kit for a Cirrus board w/ a strongarm (i forgot which one, it might be an ARM7) runs around $2000-$3000 when I last checked.

Try taking a look at motorola, dallas semiconductors, hitachi, intel, Ti. They have fairly complex DSPs that'll satisfy all your requirements, but require a lot of developement time and investment.

There are others like Rabbit Microprocessors (www.rabbitsemiconductor.com), Microchip, Basic stamp.

And finally, you can always get PC104 single-board computers with a pwm add-on card and a timer card. Advantage of getting the SBC is that you can develop your application quickly since its basically running linux and programmed in C/C++. Disadvantage is that those suck up power, but if power is not an issue, I'd definitely look into SBCs.

 

[Burner]

Do you have any other suggestions on processors? Both the rabbit and arm seem like you have to do a lot of off chip development like adding in RAM and ROM. Pics/STAMPs are definitely way too slow. Unfortuneately power is a huge issue, so getting a single board computer probably isn't ideal. Is there any good system on a chips that I could run some sort of embedded linux on?

 

[SuperTool]

Try Atmel. I am not sure if they make anything with fast multiplier, but you can see.

 

[blahblah99]

If power is an issue, then I'd definitely go with the strongarm processors. There are a lot of different companies that utilize them and Redhat has ported linux to run under the strongarm environment called ECoS. Sure, you need to add-on RAM/ROM etc etc, but everything is modularized - you just need to add in the components you need and the developement boards includes schematics for typical applications.

Also take a look at JUMPtec Adastra and Cygnal Integrated Products.

 

[Locutus4657]

Have you looked at any of AMD's micro-controllers? They have a full line of products from the K6-series to 386 and 486 chips... These chips would be a snap to develop for seeing as they are all x-86. There's another company who's name escapes me which makes a full pre-packaged embedded linux product based on a 486. We have one here at school that we're trying to be installed on a robot. I wish I could remember what the name of the company was.

 

[dkozloski]

Don't pass forget ZILOG. They hve been around a long time and have some pretty good stuff.

 

[junthin]

Sorry, but this is a bit off topic...

Do you know of any places that sell prebuilt microcontroller boards that are already ready to program (reasonably fast, efficient at using energy)? (either in linux, c/c++, or other common programming langauges)

 

[Burner]

I looked at the ZILOG and they seem to be a little slow, same with AMD =/
It looks like I might use the ARM, although I wanted to avoid it at all costs. I found a few other neat ones, TI has a nice DSP that might work, and ubicom is making the IP2022 which seems like it is also pretty good.
As for a good microcontroller board, you might look at a PIC board, they aren't that fast though. (in fact i don't know if they exist, I usually just make it myself..you probably can do it on a protoboard, they don't require a whole lot in parts..just get a development kit probably)
maybe look at http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R131-TR-OOPIC-IM.html
I think you need
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R70-OOPIC-CBL.html
to use download code, but I've never used that stuff so I'm not sure.
You can email me with more info about your application and budget, and I might have more pointers for you.
skeil@andrew.cmu.edu

 

[blahblah99]

I personally like using the PIC chips since they are relatively easy to learn even though its in ASM (only 32 instructions). There ARE compilers for PIC chips, but they require a lot of overhead space and do not let you learn how the chips really work. You can pick up a programmer for the PIC chips at any hobby store. They usually run for $19-$200, depending on how many different model chips it can program and how professional it looks. You can pick up one from DONTRONICS.COM for around $30. I got mine from an online website (I forgot where - can find out if you like) for $19.95 shipped and it does almost all PIC chips.

Advantages to using these chips are that they are pretty fast - goes up to 40Mhz (maybe more) and does 10MIPS, easy to use, easy to program, require few external parts (need only a crystal resonator and power lines), you can program them to do almost anything, and finally, they are DIRT CHEAP for something you can re-write over and over.

 

[Burner]

Yeah I would definitely go with pic chips for a cheap easy microcontroller. I just don't know where to buy any of the stuff, because the lab I work in already has it. You can also do in circuit programming, but it is slightly more complex, but makes it nice that you don't have to remove the chip. For compilers it really depends on how you program in c whether it is effective or not. For example if you use their serial port stuff I don't think that it generally works that well, but if you access the registers directly using c, you can usually make effective serial routines. I think you can make a base circuit that does serial with a few resisters, a resonator, and a max232 chip (which I think you can get free as a sample from maxim)
For faster chips I found IP2022 which might turn out to be pretty good. http://www.ubicom.com/products/ip2000/index.html

 

[techbuzz]

Try looking at what Axiom Manufacturing has. I have used the HC11EVBU and I know they have C compliers and stuff for that chip. They sell all sorts of deveolpment boards and what not to test with also.

 

[SpYdEr2723]

Have you looked at the Motrola HC12. We use the HC12 in our micro controllers class here at school, and next year we are getting newer faster ones, they run at 25MHz, they have a lot of PWM channels and a bunch of other stuff, good compiler I think, just regular C programing. The site is Motorola Microcontrollers , don't know if that will help.
SpYdEr

 

[Burner]

yeah the hc12 is pretty good, we just want something more around 100mips.