He wouldn't just be vilified by the left, he would be crushed by the old-person lobby. If Republicans came out against Medicare they would never win an election again.
I'm not saying I don't understand WHY he takes that position, I just find it hypocritical. If you're against socialized medicine, you're against Medicare. If you want to keep it around because the logistical difficulties are too great to overcome, that's a very pragmatic and respectable opinion to hold. I have not seen our good friend Michael ever try to make that argument however, he simply rails against socialism out of one side of his mouth and supports socialism out of the other side.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
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That's why people who paint themselves into the corner get little sympathy from me. It's "socialized" in the sense that government pays but it's a limited program for a limited number of people who are more in danger from loss of health care than the general public. He can't admit that though and he's stuck like he's on flypaper. So he has to support government healthcare without supporting it. Very tricky.
I don't know...
Whether you're on the side of health care reform or not, it's pretty clear after listening to the interview that Mr. Steele was, in fact, obliterated. He's definitely not the best salesman.
There are a number of groups more vulnerable to health care loss than the general public -- seniors, the working poor, minorities, and so forth -- and it costs taxpayers money to help any of them. But only one of those groups vote at a high frequency than the general public.
If you were putting together a political party, which group would you pander to?
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
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I've been hearing the Medicare thing from UHC supporters lately.
I see no relevance, this UHC isn't Medicare (more on that in a second). Worse, Medicare is experiencing major cost problems (everybody knows but rarely mentions that teh bulk of our national HC costs are with the elderly).
As far as Medicare/medicaid, it's not clear to me why we just didn't expand Medicaid in an effort to get the 'working poor' covered. Could've just raised the income limit, perhaps adding a sliding payment scale to get those people covered. Those who can afford HC but choose not to, and illegals need not apply. And if you think the federal government needs to provide or force coverage on those latter 2 groups OK, but these require different solutions than the working poor anyway.
(IMO, Medicare and SS should be means tested like Medicaid anyway, and thereby cut costs)
The whole "you can't oppose this (fuzzy) UHC and still be OK with Medicare/Medicaid" argument just doesn't fly. They are not opposing concepts unless at some tortured and esoterical level.
Fern
You most certainly can oppose Obama's health care plan and support Medicare. I never said you couldn't, or anything even remotely approaching that.
What I said was that were someone to describe Obama's health care plan as 'socialism', and to oppose it due to the fact that it is 'socialism', that to support Medicare at the same time is hypocritical as Medicare is far larger and far more socialistic than anything Obama is attempting to do.
We all know that the Republicans have long ago realized that socialized medicine in the US in the form of Medicare is overwhelmingly popular, and they can't go against it. They have also realized that most people don't realize that Medicare is socialized medicine, and so they can continue to attack socialism and not worry about being called out on it. (much)
As for the cost problems of Medicare, they compare just fine with the cost problems facing the health care industry at large. Either way, they aren't the issue here.
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
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I heard someone with an agenda ignoring what was blatantly obvious, and try to put words in someones mouth, that's not obliterating, it's retarded. I'll agree Steele isn't good at selling his product, but that doesn't make the interviewer any more valid.
Michael Steele, is a vapor headed jackass living in a fact free zone. In the NPR interview with Steve Inskeep, he denies Republicans have been fear mongering in their attempt to defeat any meaningful health care bill:
Uh-huh! But that doesn't explain Sen. Chuck Grassley (R) Iowa. At 0:56, he says:
And at 1:24, he says:
Nope. No fear mongering, there. :roll:
It also doesn't seem to comport with Rep. Virginia Foxx (R) North Carolina, who promises that a Republican solution...
Nobody pimping fear, there, either. :Q
And I guess he didn't check with Rep. Paul Brown (R) Virginia when he said at 0:15 :
He must be saying we should be unafraid... VE-E-ERY unafraid! :shocked:
Of course, as Chairman of the RNC, I'm sure he had nothing to do with this question in their survey mailed to Republicans entitled, 2009 Future of American Health Care Survey:
Obviously, any Democratic health care plan MUST be a plot to kill Republicans. :disgust:
It concerns me that high ranking Republicans are lying, fear mongering whores for the insurance companies who are spending millions, daily, on an invading army of lobbyists swarming over Washington in an effort to protect their record profits, fat salaries and fatter bonuses while real human beings really ARE dying because they can't afford basic health care.
As I wrote in my letter to Obama and my Congressional reps:
Uh-huh! But that doesn't explain Sen. Chuck Grassley (R) Iowa. At 0:56, he says:
And at 1:24, he says:
Nope. No fear mongering, there. :roll:
It also doesn't seem to comport with Rep. Virginia Foxx (R) North Carolina, who promises that a Republican solution...
Nobody pimping fear, there, either. :Q
And I guess he didn't check with Rep. Paul Brown (R) Virginia when he said at 0:15 :
He must be saying we should be unafraid... VE-E-ERY unafraid! :shocked:
Of course, as Chairman of the RNC, I'm sure he had nothing to do with this question in their survey mailed to Republicans entitled, 2009 Future of American Health Care Survey:
Obviously, any Democratic health care plan MUST be a plot to kill Republicans. :disgust:
It concerns me that high ranking Republicans are lying, fear mongering whores for the insurance companies who are spending millions, daily, on an invading army of lobbyists swarming over Washington in an effort to protect their record profits, fat salaries and fatter bonuses while real human beings really ARE dying because they can't afford basic health care.
As I wrote in my letter to Obama and my Congressional reps:
idiotekniQues
Platinum Member
- Jan 4, 2007
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MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
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That doesn't end well as any red-stater will tell you. Besides, we need healthcare, too. Just give us time, and don't give up. There are plenty of progressives down here....you just have to reach them differently.
Outstanding!
I am a liberal and I will be damned if I'm going to dump my stupid-assed brother in the garbage just because he's an asshole. Just a while back I was making a killing selling him slaves. I look out for the assholes I can see so that better folk who can see I'm an asshole will look out for me.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Now that we know about you, who are the other two?
Good one, Harv...
Originally posted by: Harvey
Now that we know about you, who are the other two?
<raises hand>
I'll give Steele a modicum of credit.
He has been placed in a position for less than altruistic reasons and forced to defend what is effectively indefensible - the GOP. He has been thrown to the wolves. Moving forward proclaiming Republican new-found fiscal conservatism, going on the attack and playing the Fear Card has largely failed the GOP in the last 2 national elections. The more they suck up to The Fundies the more they alienate moderates. Is this the Steele Game Plan?
I don't know why he would want the job in the first place. He must have a really strong neck to hold up that Big Head of his.
And the GOP is now stuck with him - easing Steele out the door before 2012 would defeat the purpose for appointing him in the first place.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Maybe the comment that best sums up this thread comes from QuauntumPion who says, " I did not read the interview but that is my guess as to what his position is, which matches most conservatives. "
The point being, Micheal Steele, as the fearless leader of the GOP, is supposed to have a logically reasoning out position in the health care issues.
And its very clear from the interview that Steele only had poorly reasoned emotional comments that did not remotely resembled well thought out or logical. But if the Steele position best matches most conservatives, that is quite a sad thing to say about the GOP.
The point being, Micheal Steele, as the fearless leader of the GOP, is supposed to have a logically reasoning out position in the health care issues.
And its very clear from the interview that Steele only had poorly reasoned emotional comments that did not remotely resembled well thought out or logical. But if the Steele position best matches most conservatives, that is quite a sad thing to say about the GOP.
I love Uncle Steele. He's wholly unlikable. Condescending, sarcastic, and just a fucking prick. I hope the GOP keeps him forever.
shira
Diamond Member
- Jan 12, 2005
- 9,500
- 6
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The beauty of Steel's hypocrisy is that he keeps insisting that Medicare is inefficient and bloated, yet Medicare is far MORE efficient and less bloated than private-insurance based plans, which he doesn't even mention.
Why does he single out Medicare, when it's a shining example of the BEST health care system we have?
Why does he single out Medicare, when it's a shining example of the BEST health care system we have?
Those private insurance companies are the ones paying his salary and backing his hypocrisy.
Because he's a droid too stupid to understand the self-contratictions in the script he's pimping. :roll:
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
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Medicare is the best healthcare?
What field of medicine or health care do you work in? l'd like to know what you've seen compared to other insurance options out there that you have personally worked with when providing patient care. In my experience it's not the best, but it's not the worst. I'd be interested in examples you've seen that make you think it's the best. It would be cool to share things with someone else who knows what they are talking about, since there is a great deal of "BEST" type talk by people who in reality haven't a clue.
So what do you do again?
Medicare is more efficient than private insurance companies, that's pretty well indisputable. It's overhead is considerably lower than the other systems', and they tend to pay less per procedure than the private ones as well.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Jaskalas comes back with, "Replace Steele with Republicans and that is their biggest problem. Republicans cannot be Democrat-lites and expect to win the people over. They need to offer different solutions that do not involve Washington DC but get the job done."
And the rub is in the last sentence, the GOP may have to offer non-democratic and not Washington DC solutions, but they have seeming failed to come up with any well thought out alternatives while offering us GWB rides again that so failed before.
The GOP has not even figured out any ways to reform the private health insurance companies that might at least help some.
And the rub is in the last sentence, the GOP may have to offer non-democratic and not Washington DC solutions, but they have seeming failed to come up with any well thought out alternatives while offering us GWB rides again that so failed before.
The GOP has not even figured out any ways to reform the private health insurance companies that might at least help some.
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