Mice with flawless sensors

[Sheninat0r]

So, I'm in the market for a new mouse. Aside from the ancient ESReality thread here, there's not that much up-to-date information about mice with flawless sensors i.e. no acceleration and no prediction. Aside from Zowie's offerings, the G400, and the DeathAdder, does anyone know of any mice that have flawless sensors?

 

[BrightCandle]

From the threads I have seen I also suspect that the following are also flawless:
StealSeries kana V2
Roccat Kone Pure Optical (although its a ADNS-9800 so likely isn't flawless)
Roccat Savu (random pointer movement reported however)

Zowie mice have jitter on Puretrak talents but are flawless on darker mouse mats such as the QCK heavy. The Zowie EC1 is not flawless but the EC2, FK and AM are.

Don't know of any other options really. One guy at the bottom of the thread saying the CM Storm Recon is flawless also (based on sensor it should be) but not a mouse I have researched.

 

[Ben90]

People throw that ESR post around like the holy bible. If it wasn't for him wording it like an absolute fact, it would just be another opinion piece that would have gotten lost in the internet. Just as there isn't a mouse with the perfect shape for everyone, there isn't a sensor without flaws. Take a step back from the flawless sensor hype and think about what you want. People freak out when there isn't perfect 1:1 movement when in reality no human can be that accurate. I want you to find a pixel on your screen and flick your mouse to it. Now do it consistently enough that a 10.25 - 1 pulldown becomes an issue.

For starters what kind of sensitivity do you use? If you tend to mouse at 3m/s and up you can cross every one of his "perfect sensors" off the list aside from the Deathadder. They just can't keep up. Interestingly enough, many of the flaws exacerbated by these flawed sensors only show up in situations where the ADNS-3090 would have already shit itself into a complete malfunction. "Damn, my Lachesis is off by a few counts after I lifted it off and put it back from a fast movement. If only I had my G400, I wouldn't have to worry about lifting off because it would have malfunctioned 20cm ago."

Also, there is more than just the actual sensor. The "perfect" ADNS-3090 in the Zowie AM gets rickrolled by it's lens and jitters pretty horribly on any surface. While it isn't that noticeable on compatible mousepads (if you cleaned the pad and lens within the day), it still shows up if you are looking for it.

 

[Ben90]

*double post edit*
A great example of how sheeple the gaming populace is: just look at how many people insist at using 6/11 windows sensitivity. Yes I will agree, 6400 DPI is just too much on the desktop; however if your mouse doesn't jitter or suffer other negative attributes, there is no reason you should be using 400/800/1600 DPI if it can go higher. It's not going to make you the supah l33t gamah overnight, but it is smoother.

I'm a big fan of accumulating all the advantages I can. Get rid of some tearing here, reduce pixel persistence here, some fine grained mouse movements here, it all adds up.

 

[JamesV]

You made sense until you mention DPI.

I game between 800-1200 DPI and have been accused of cheating for my sniping skills in games like Enemy Territory and Battlefield. Go above 1600 DPI and mouse movement is simply uncontrollable for me, even for desktop use.

High DPI being better or 'smoother' is simply a user feel issue, not a law of mouse use.

 

[Wall Street]

Roccat Kone Pure Optical (although its a ADNS-9800 so likely isn't flawless)

Confusingly, Roccat makes both a Kone Pure and a Kone Pure Optical. Only the Kone Pure Optical has a "perfect" sensor.

Don't forget some oldies but goodies in the Intelimouse family with perfect sensors.

Ben90: How can you explain Rapha wining Quakecon 2013 with a Wheel Mouse Optical? 400 DPI and less than 2 m/s perfect control speed. I would rather use a mouse with a perfect sensor because for sensitivities between 10 cm per 360
and 30 cm per 360 you don't really need DPI higher than 800 or control speed greater than 2 m/s.

 

[Ben90]

You made sense until you mention DPI.

I game between 800-1200 DPI and have been accused of cheating for my sniping skills in games like Enemy Territory and Battlefield. Go above 1600 DPI and mouse movement is simply uncontrollable for me, even for desktop use.

High DPI being better or 'smoother' is simply a user feel issue, not a law of mouse use.

Yes it is a law of mouse use. Lets say you use 800DPI and your mouse performs the same at 3200. Use 3/11 to compensate on the desktop and divide your ingame sensitivity by 4. The sensitivity on a general sense will stay the same but you will gain a decent amount of precision.

Marketing DPI became taboo inside the competitive gaming scene for different reasons and as such, most people choose to ignore it even though there are real gains to be had.

Ben90: How can you explain Rapha wining Quakecon 2013 with a Wheel Mouse Optical? 400 DPI and less than 2 m/s perfect control speed. I would rather use a mouse with a perfect sensor because for sensitivities between 10 cm per 360
and 30 cm per 360 you don't really need DPI higher than 800 or control speed greater than 2 m/s.

Rapha is probably the best example of why you don't need perfect mouse movement.

For starters, Rapha uses large amounts of acceleration. By doing this he not only acknowledges 1:1 isn't necessary, he prefers a so called flawed setup. Most Quake pros use acceleration. I'll agree that software acceleration is cleaner than hardware but it's no secret Rapha isn't known as an aim player. In my opinion, Strenx and Evil are the people we should be looking at with their absolutely insane shaft. Out of pure luck to my point, they both use mice with angle snapping and prediction.

Rapha wins games because he is smart, there are countless anonymous people playing Call of Duty that can aim better than him. Most professional athletes don't need the best equipment to win, although it can definitely help.

While I know it sounds contradictory, I still want my mouse to have the most 1:1 sensor possible. I was just showing how little it actually matters. For what it's worth, I tried playing "russian style" and decided to leave that to Rapha.

 

[Wall Street]

I don't think you have a leg to stand on in regards to the higher DPI being better in FPS games.

If you have a 1080p display at 90 FOV, there are 1920 x 4 = 7680 pixels in a full 360 turn. If you play with m_yaw 0.22 (default m_yaw) you end up with 360 / 0.22 = 16,363 mouse counts per 360 if sensitivity is 1. So, if you divide 16,363/7680, each registered movement rotates the camera by less than an average pixel if sensitivity is 2.13 or below (I say average because the pixels at the edge of the screen have a narrower angle than those in the middle). If you play at sensitivity 1, each mouse movement is less than a half of a pixel.

Playing at sensitivity 0.08 (in Ben's cfg) with a super high DPI mouse lets you rotate 1/26th a pixel at a time. Most people can't hit a specific pixel, yet alone achieve subpixel precision. Also, a normal thin human hair is 1/2000th of an inch wide. Playing at 5000 DPI would really only benefit if you think your hand movements are accurate to within a fraction of a thousandths of an inch, but I would speculate that they are not.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

See my sig for a gaming mouse.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Better info on mouse sensors located here.

 

[taq8ojh]

I wonder why people keep listing Roccat Kone XTD as having A9800 sensor when it has Pro-Aim R3.

 

[24601]

Logitech G5 if you use a >>real<< hardpad like Steelseries SX (block of aluminum with the top "coating" being a thick layer of aluminum oxide. The negative acceleration people find is just from using anything less hard.

Logitech G400 and G400s are good if you want something you can still purchase.

Logitech G500 and just about every modern laser sensor have horrendous positive acceleration built in as a goddamn "feature" because of the retards that use softpads complaining to the manufacturers.

If you play with any sort of acceleration then you don't like (quick and accurate) aiming.

Don't buy Razer unless you want Razer "build quality" and Razer drivers.

 

[Ben90]

I don't think you have a leg to stand on in regards to the higher DPI being better in FPS games.

If you have a 1080p display at 90 FOV, there are 1920 x 4 = 7680 pixels in a full 360 turn. If you play with m_yaw 0.22 (default m_yaw) you end up with 360 / 0.22 = 16,363 mouse counts per 360 if sensitivity is 1. So, if you divide 16,363/7680, each registered movement rotates the camera by less than an average pixel if sensitivity is 2.13 or below (I say average because the pixels at the edge of the screen have a narrower angle than those in the middle). If you play at sensitivity 1, each mouse movement is less than a half of a pixel.

Playing at sensitivity 0.08 (in Ben's cfg) with a super high DPI mouse lets you rotate 1/26th a pixel at a time. Most people can't hit a specific pixel, yet alone achieve subpixel precision. Also, a normal thin human hair is 1/2000th of an inch wide. Playing at 5000 DPI would really only benefit if you think your hand movements are accurate to within a fraction of a thousandths of an inch, but I would speculate that they are not.

I'm glad we both agree that higher DPI means better precision, although your post was a very long winded way of saying it.