Mexico-US Wall..

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That sounds like money well spent, who's getting the contract? cheneyburton? Ridiculous idea. We are not a nation of walls, our very foundation was built upon several cultures melding. So sick of this exclusionary idealogy.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
A wall is just one part of the solution. One of the biggest fixes would be to make it illegal to knowingly employ illegals. It we were to start throwing employers who hire illegals in jail for a couple years along with seizing much of their assets, that would help end the problem. However, there's also the issue of U.S. citizenship for anchor babies and free health care, which is where the wall would help some.

Do you think a two year jail sentence is appropriate for someone who hires a bunch of Mexicans to redo his patio for a weekend? How can you possibly know they are illegal, anyway? Require them to provide proof of citizenship before you pay them under the table? Illegals can get driver's licenses now you know, it's not considered a proof of citizenship.

Easy, it's called a national soc security database. If you want to hire someone, you have to go through it first. Submit a dupe, you're warned. Do it again (with the same number), you will be heavily fined/suspended/jailed. It's that simple.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: babylon5
I don't believe America can't build some structure or technology to decrease the flow of illegals coming in.
With the brain power America has, we can build anything if we want to.

The Israel wall has reduced the number of suicide bombers coming across, I dont' know the exact number, but a wall does work.
It wont' stop everyone, but a walll combine with guards and patrols will reduce ground intrusion drastically. But it has to combine with
punishing any business owners who hire illegals...I just don't see our corrupted government will do that, because business interests control our government.

I sometimes think Mexicans must be laughing at how incompetent Americans cant' even guard its own border and they just keep pouring in.

Agreed, if we can build the Hoover Dam and send men to the moon, a wall is chump change.

 

[alien42]

what is wrong with people? the history of walls of this type is not a good one.

 

[dexvx]

Uh... the logistics of making and maintaining a 3000 mile (probably more) wall is just mind-boggling. Absolutely horrendus, if you keep manned towers.

However, it would be an expensive way for keeping the illegals out.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: babylon5

I sometimes think Mexicans must be laughing at how incompetent Americans cant' even guard its own border and they just keep pouring in.

Everytime I hear a Mexican say that we need someone to "pick our grapes" I laugh at them laughing at me.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: magomago
no.

I want all the illegals out only because people who are legal end up waiting years on end just for permanent residence....ie: well over 10 years! Why should they get CITZENSHIP!

But at the same time I favor little or no restrictions to immgration. If you can get to the USA, you should easily be able to apply and within two years max get a permanent resident cards. Citizenship can follow after you've lived here a number of years. None of this quota B.S. We are a land of immigrants.

No, we're not. The vast majority of American citizens were born here. If you were born here, you're not an immigrant - no matter what country your ancestors came from.

I do not think it is too much to ask for American citizens to have some control over who can/cannot come to this country.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Just how much is national sovereignty worth to you? Yes this is a country of immigrants however we have laws as a nation and cannot absorb every individual who wants to come here. Could the legal process be improved? Why certainly it could but just because it hasn't doesn't give you a green light to violate it. If I got out onto the street and the speed limit is 50 but I do 100 and get caught well I'm going to get fined and quite possibly end up in jail. How come I am subject to the law of the land but someone who enters this country illegally is not? Should not the law apply to everybody? I have nothing against people just because of how they look or where they come from. I do have a problem with people who willfully violate the law then start raising hell for things that are not theirs in the first place. When they took to the streets demanding amnesty waiving foriegn flags that told me that they do not respect us or our country. They only want what they perceive we can give them. I'm also appalled that the government allowed them to do it knowing that the majority of them were illegal.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: dexvx
Uh... the logistics of making and maintaining a 3000 mile (probably more) wall is just mind-boggling. Absolutely horrendus, if you keep manned towers.

However, it would be an expensive way for keeping the illegals out.

Please explain to us how hard it would be to maintain a stupid wall (especially if made out of metal)? And nobody is suggesting manned towers except a few. Ideally it would be made out of steel with barbed wire at the top.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: dexvx
Uh... the logistics of making and maintaining a 3000 mile (probably more) wall is just mind-boggling. Absolutely horrendus, if you keep manned towers.

However, it would be an expensive way for keeping the illegals out.

Please explain to us how hard it would be to maintain a stupid wall (especially if made out of metal)? And nobody is suggesting manned towers except a few. Ideally it would be made out of steel with barbed wire at the top.

Every here of a ladder. a 10 dollar ladder and a few pairs of wire cutters would allow a person to scale the wall in 10 minutes. An unmanned wall is pointless.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: dexvx
Uh... the logistics of making and maintaining a 3000 mile (probably more) wall is just mind-boggling. Absolutely horrendus, if you keep manned towers.

However, it would be an expensive way for keeping the illegals out.

Please explain to us how hard it would be to maintain a stupid wall (especially if made out of metal)? And nobody is suggesting manned towers except a few. Ideally it would be made out of steel with barbed wire at the top.

Every here of a ladder. a 10 dollar ladder and a few pairs of wire cutters would allow a person to scale the wall in 10 minutes. An unmanned wall is pointless.

So 1 million people will all have ladders and wire cutters? rofl. And what are they going to do even if they make it to the top? Jump 20 ft? That's 1 million people with broken legs now. Hope they can crawl 5 miles out of the desert while dodging patrols.

And nobody is saying that the Feds have to stop their regular patrols. But to suggest they should be standing at the top of this wall is preposterous.

 

[Genx87]

Yes and I dont believe it will stop them outright. But it will slow them down big time.
We also have to man that wall and rapidly stop anybody scaling it.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Yes and I dont believe it will stop them outright. But it will slow them down big time.
We also have to man that wall and rapidly stop anybody scaling it.

I don't see this as an immigration issue. I see this as a security issue. If a thousand Mexicans can cross the border per day, what's the point of checking any cargo at airports or seaports... if someone wanted to bring a nuke into the US, they'd just need to carry it over the border on a pair of horses.

What we need is a chain of tall (>50 ft) concrete towers, with a huge set of infrared/daylight/night vision optics and a 50-cal at the top, as well as a flat-panel directional sound emitter. Have a computer system analyze the heat signatures and warn a monitoring center when anything large approaches the border. If it turns out to be a person, warn them with the long-range speaker. If they move further forward, use the 50-cal. After the first few dozen cases, the attempts will cease. I don't even think we'd need to kill anyone. It would take a total moron to try to run forward if a few 50-cal rounds strike the ground in front of them.

All we'd need are towers every 2-3 miles or so, depending on terrain, to cover the entire length of border. Figure at 5M per tower that'd be $10-20B altogether for initial costs, and then maybe 1-2B/year in maintenance and monitoring costs. Pretty cheap, if you ask me. That's what - $100/person the first year, and like $20/person every subsequent year. ******, I'd pay it.

 

[Genx87]

I agree on the security issue, a 3000 mile long open door is just asking for intruders to come in.

We will get hit and the people complaining we are trying to stop this will be the first in line complaining why it wasnt stopped.

 

[JacobJ]

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all Walls
visible and invisible. And I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
who came into the world to buld walls, and ours should've been first.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Yup this is an outright security issue. Ask any group of 100 security experts you get twice as many suggestions to beef up security.

Even if a border is armed to the teeth with remote controlled 50cals on not just the US/Mexico but also the US/Canada border there will never be complete security since you still have the entire length of the East and West coast.

Technically someone in a rubber boat could slip past billions of dollars worth of security and simply walk into a nearby refinery and immediately kill 10,000+ people by breaching it correctly. It doesn't require more then a few people and it's increadibly low tech.

So not only do you need to properly secure the border but you need to properly secure key facilities to make sure such attacks would fail. Sadly today you could easily walk into any such facility and it's not likely that you would be challenged.

As far as the immigration is concerned I think it needs to be easier to navigate and those who work hard should be rewarded for their effort. However I'm also for accountability against business' that exploit these same people for their own devices. They should be behind bars, not setting the standards to which elected officials sing tunes or pay lip service.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: JacobJ
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all Walls
visible and invisible. And I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
who came into the world to buld walls, and ours should've been first.

He was a carpenter, and considering the relationship dumbya claims to have with him and his dad, you'd figure they'd have at least a disneyworld-esque wall up by now.

 

[wazzledoozle]

Originally posted by: Aelius
Yup this is an outright security issue. Ask any group of 100 security experts you get twice as many suggestions to beef up security.

Even if a border is armed to the teeth with remote controlled 50cals on not just the US/Mexico but also the US/Canada border there will never be complete security since you still have the entire length of the East and West coast.

Technically someone in a rubber boat could slip past billions of dollars worth of security and simply walk into a nearby refinery and immediately kill 10,000+ people by breaching it correctly. It doesn't require more then a few people and it's increadibly low tech.

So not only do you need to properly secure the border but you need to properly secure key facilities to make sure such attacks would fail. Sadly today you could easily walk into any such facility and it's not likely that you would be challenged.

As far as the immigration is concerned I think it needs to be easier to navigate and those who work hard should be rewarded for their effort. However I'm also for accountability against business' that exploit these same people for their own devices. They should be behind bars, not setting the standards to which elected officials sing tunes or pay lip service.

So we should just do nothing? I mean, if there is always a chance of them getting in, then just ****** it. I mean, we might as well take all the security guards and metal detectors out of airports.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Aelius
Yup this is an outright security issue. Ask any group of 100 security experts you get twice as many suggestions to beef up security.

Even if a border is armed to the teeth with remote controlled 50cals on not just the US/Mexico but also the US/Canada border there will never be complete security since you still have the entire length of the East and West coast.

Technically someone in a rubber boat could slip past billions of dollars worth of security and simply walk into a nearby refinery and immediately kill 10,000+ people by breaching it correctly. It doesn't require more then a few people and it's increadibly low tech.

So not only do you need to properly secure the border but you need to properly secure key facilities to make sure such attacks would fail. Sadly today you could easily walk into any such facility and it's not likely that you would be challenged.

As far as the immigration is concerned I think it needs to be easier to navigate and those who work hard should be rewarded for their effort. However I'm also for accountability against business' that exploit these same people for their own devices. They should be behind bars, not setting the standards to which elected officials sing tunes or pay lip service.

So you start by securing the border as best as you can, to prevent them from coming across on foot, then you increase Coast Guard patrols near the border to catch as many coming by water as possible. Granted, you'll never stop 100% of them...EVER. Heck, as secure as the borders were in the USSR, people managed to sneak in...AND out...
Nest step, after stopping/slowing the flow, is to go after the employers. NO, not the John & Jane Doe who hire some day laborers at Home Depot, but the companies like Tyson Chicken, Foster Farms, Wally's landscaping, etc. who give them daily jobs. Start with $100,000. fines PER illegal employee, and you'll quickly eliminate the reason they come in the first place...

 

[Rainsford]

You know, *I* think we should just nuke Mexico. That's right, why fvck around with a wall and guards and even landmines? That's baby crap, what we really need is to cut the illegal immigration off at its source...and that source is Mexico. Kill all the Mexicans and there will be a lot fewer illegal immigrants. We have all these nuclear weapons just sitting around, let's use a few dozen of them.

You people need to get a grip...seriously.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: ntdz
And exactly, what are the soldiers supposed to do, shoot the Mexican civilians.

If I were to try to cross into Mexico illegally, I would be killed by a Mexican soldier. Fair is fair.

 

[BoberFett]

Waste of time and money. Severely punish people/companies who hire illegals, and stop giving out so many government freebies to the border hoppers and they'll have no more reason to come here. Do people really think a wall will stop anything?

 

[palehorse]

Build it, and they will not come.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't think a wall would stop them. Simply give them 24 hours to leave the country and after that allow the military to shoot illegals on sight.

 

[miketheidiot]

i am in favor of nearly unlimited immigration, and every illegal immigrant already in the country for more than a year and has not been charged with a crime (run fingerprint and dna checks on EVERYONE, if they refuse send them out) they should be given a greencard or whatever. Any children born in the US shodl be given american citizenship without question, no rights should be extended to the non-citiizen/greencarded families or the american citizens.