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Merrill Lynch handed out bonuses before reporting $15 billion in losses.

vhx

Golden Member
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/med...b/merrill%20letter.pdf

This is a letter from New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo to Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), head of the House Financial Services Committee.

Basically the letter goes on to say how Merril Lynch and Bank of America handed out bonuses BEFORE they reported the losses. Which means the loss they reported was actually including the bonuses they handed out. In other words, they knew the government would bail them out with our money, so they paid everyone quietly and quickly, on purpose. Then reported it as a loss and got back all of the money they just paid out. 700 millionaires.... nice. All on our dime.

One disturbing question that must be answered is whether Merrill Lynch and Bank of America timed the bonuses in such a way as to force taxpayers to pay for them through the deal funding. We plan to require top officials at both Merrill Lynch and Bank of America to answer this question and to provide justifications for the massive bonuses they paid ahead of their massive losses. As you know, my Office recently issued subpoenas seeking the testimony of former Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain, as well as the testimony of Bank of America Chief Administrative Officer J. Steele Alphin. I expect we will also be seeking the testimony of other top executives at these firms.

And people saying the bonuses get spread out over tons of employees, they did some more digging:
Bearing in mind that Merrill moved up its bonus payments in advance of its announced $15 billion quarterly loss and $27 billion annual loss, we have determined that Merrill Lynch made the following bonus payments:

* The top four bonus recipients received a combined $121 million;
* The next four bonus recipients received a combined $62 million;
* The next six bonus recipients received a combined $66 million;
* Fourteen individuals received bonuses of $1 0 million or more and combined they received more than $250 million;
* 20 individuals received bonuses of $8 million or more;
* 53 individuals received bonuses of $5 million or more;
* 149 individuals received bonuses of $3 million or more;
* Overall, the top 149 bonus recipients received a combined $858 million;
* 696 individuals received bonuses of $1 million or more.
Again, these payments and their curious timing raise serious questions as to whether the Merrill Lynch and Bank of America Boards of Directors were derelict in their duties and violated their fiduciary obligations.

Disturbing, but I didn't think it would be long before someone reported how the banks exploited this as much as they could. I wonder how much longer everyone will keep bending over for these people.
 
If you don't pay them bonus, they'll move on to another firm because there are so many jobs for them out there in this great economy!!!!!!!
 
You can thank your Democrat and Republican leaders in congress for this nonsense since they were so eager to give away your tax dollars - not like they care, most of them aren't paying taxes it seems!
 
Originally posted by: babylon5
If you don't pay them bonus, they'll move on to another firm because there are so many jobs for them out there in this great economy!!!!!!!
Haha, this is a fact! Talent retention FTW!!!

 
I don't think anyone has a problem with giving bonus money to employees who earn it. What people have a problem with is when the banks hand out money they can't spare and then cry to the government for help.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: babylon5
If you don't pay them bonus, they'll move on to another firm because there are so many jobs for them out there in this great economy!!!!!!!
Haha, this is a fact! Talent retention FTW!!!

They must have some serious talent since they're fleecing ~300m people without them even noticing. 😉
 
And this is why Obama wants to rush the new 'stimulus' through quickly so more of this crap can happen before anyone has any time to think about it.
 
Originally posted by: novasatori
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: babylon5
If you don't pay them bonus, they'll move on to another firm because there are so many jobs for them out there in this great economy!!!!!!!
Haha, this is a fact! Talent retention FTW!!!

They must have some serious talent since they're fleecing ~300m people without them even noticing. 😉
They do. Paying bonuses, then begging for money, then paying more bonuses is a damn talent by anybody's standards.
 
Bush and Congress rushed to failure on the first bailout package...Obama and Congress will do the same.

The government is handing out free money with zero accountability and you expect people to act ethically...especially Wall Street people, whose job is to find every possible loophole and avenue for making money?
 
weren't they contractually obligated to pay the bonuses or something?

I never really understood Wall St. salaries where bonuses are worked into planned compensation instead of actually being a bonus.
 
Originally posted by: LS8
I don't think anyone has a problem with giving bonus money to employees who earn it. What people have a problem with is when the banks hand out money they can't spare and then cry to the government for help.

I've got to wonder how many people actually "earned" bonuses if the banks themselves would be failing without taxpayer funds. "The company's on the verge of collapse! Congratulations - here's a million dollar bonus!!"
 
The thieves are stealing the china and silver as they flee the building. The attitude now is that the gravy train is over, so let's get OURS NOW!

This is a version of Apocalypse Now thinking.

They may be right.

Will they turn off the lights when they leave? 😉

-Robert
 
Actually good part of the bonus pool was for talent retention - one of my buddies works for MER and he's been saying that all the top bankers and bailing ship (especially after hearing about the executive salary cap). Apparently there are opportunities abroad and sovereign wealth funds in particular, so MER has been leaking talent left and right. There's a good reason why gov't shouldn't be running business...


That being said, the sad part of the whole ordeal is that people responsible for all this excess risk are long gone (and they took their golden parachutes with them) and now the backslash will punish people that had nothing to do with corporate strategy and leverage. If you cap top traders and bankers at 400K, they'll bail the ship before you can sign the law.
 
Originally posted by: halik
Actually good part of the bonus pool was for talent retention - one of my buddies works for MER and he's been saying that all the top bankers and bailing ship (especially after hearing about the executive salary cap). Apparently there are opportunities abroad and sovereign wealth funds in particular, so MER has been leaking talent left and right.

There's a good reason why gov't shouldn't be running business.

Oh, which country would all these talented people be fleeing to? Certainly not England, France, or Germany.

With so many financial institutions closing and cutting back on staff, I call bullshit.

These guys are just trying to justify their ridiculous salaries. Which is why it isn't a bonus but a 'retention payment'. Whoever came up with that term should be working the halls of Congress.

-Robert
 
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: halik
Actually good part of the bonus pool was for talent retention - one of my buddies works for MER and he's been saying that all the top bankers and bailing ship (especially after hearing about the executive salary cap). Apparently there are opportunities abroad and sovereign wealth funds in particular, so MER has been leaking talent left and right.

There's a good reason why gov't shouldn't be running business.

Oh, which country would all these talented people be fleeing to? Certainly not England, France, or Germany.

With so many financial institutions closing and cutting back on staff, I call bullshit.

These guys are just trying to justify their ridiculous salaries. Which is why it isn't a bonus but a 'retention payment'. Whoever came up with that term should be working the halls of Congress.

-Robert

Middle east apparently - Dubai has been shaping up to be the financial capitol of that part of the world and they're sitting on a large bit of cash.

In any case, if you're a known money generator (on either banking on trading side), someone will give you a job - on the high end of things, there really aren't that many people doing this work.

I think you're confusing regular finance employees (aka the thousands of people laid off) and the top-end finance MDs with either years of trading returns or an assload of relationships in m&a advisory. Those people will always have jobs, since they're non replacable.
 
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: halik
Actually good part of the bonus pool was for talent retention - one of my buddies works for MER and he's been saying that all the top bankers and bailing ship (especially after hearing about the executive salary cap). Apparently there are opportunities abroad and sovereign wealth funds in particular, so MER has been leaking talent left and right.

There's a good reason why gov't shouldn't be running business.

Oh, which country would all these talented people be fleeing to? Certainly not England, France, or Germany.

With so many financial institutions closing and cutting back on staff, I call bullshit.

These guys are just trying to justify their ridiculous salaries. Which is why it isn't a bonus but a 'retention payment'. Whoever came up with that term should be working the halls of Congress.

-Robert

Middle east apparently - Dubai has been shaping up to be the financial capitol of that part of the world and they're sitting on a large bit of cash.

In any case, if you're a known money generator (on either banking on trading side), someone will give you a job - on the high end of things, there really aren't that many people doing this work.

I think you're confusing regular finance employees (aka the thousands of people laid off) and the top-end finance MDs with either years of trading returns or an assload of relationships in m&a advisory. Those people will always have jobs, since they're non replacable.

As Degaulle said: "The cemetaries are full of irreplaceable people."

Why would Dubai hire American money managers who had run the economy into the ground? Frankly, if they'd worked for one of the top hedge funds or banking firms I'd think they'd be a 'toxic asset'.

🙂

-Robert

 
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: halik
Actually good part of the bonus pool was for talent retention - one of my buddies works for MER and he's been saying that all the top bankers and bailing ship (especially after hearing about the executive salary cap). Apparently there are opportunities abroad and sovereign wealth funds in particular, so MER has been leaking talent left and right.

There's a good reason why gov't shouldn't be running business.

Oh, which country would all these talented people be fleeing to? Certainly not England, France, or Germany.

With so many financial institutions closing and cutting back on staff, I call bullshit.

These guys are just trying to justify their ridiculous salaries. Which is why it isn't a bonus but a 'retention payment'. Whoever came up with that term should be working the halls of Congress.

-Robert

Middle east apparently - Dubai has been shaping up to be the financial capitol of that part of the world and they're sitting on a large bit of cash.

In any case, if you're a known money generator (on either banking on trading side), someone will give you a job - on the high end of things, there really aren't that many people doing this work.

I think you're confusing regular finance employees (aka the thousands of people laid off) and the top-end finance MDs with either years of trading returns or an assload of relationships in m&a advisory. Those people will always have jobs, since they're non replacable.

As Degaulle said: "The cemetaries are full of irreplaceable people."

Why would Dubai hire American money managers who had run the economy into the ground? Frankly, if they'd worked for one of the top hedge funds or banking firms I'd think they'd be a 'toxic asset'.

🙂

-Robert

Again you're not reading what I wrote. Executives that ran the economy to the ground are LONG GONE. The bonuses are for revenue generating MDs (investment banking, trading etc. ) - if you can generate revenue either by working your relationships and bringing deals or just running a trading desk, you will get a job.

In other words, if you can bring $100M worth of deals, you can and will get a job that pays more than 500K/yr
 
Does it matter? They are TO BIG TO FAIL. No matter how bad they screw it up we have guaranteed them the win. Why try to do better?
 
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: halik
Actually good part of the bonus pool was for talent retention - one of my buddies works for MER and he's been saying that all the top bankers and bailing ship (especially after hearing about the executive salary cap). Apparently there are opportunities abroad and sovereign wealth funds in particular, so MER has been leaking talent left and right.

There's a good reason why gov't shouldn't be running business.

Oh, which country would all these talented people be fleeing to? Certainly not England, France, or Germany.

With so many financial institutions closing and cutting back on staff, I call bullshit.

These guys are just trying to justify their ridiculous salaries. Which is why it isn't a bonus but a 'retention payment'. Whoever came up with that term should be working the halls of Congress.

-Robert

Middle east apparently - Dubai has been shaping up to be the financial capitol of that part of the world and they're sitting on a large bit of cash.

In any case, if you're a known money generator (on either banking on trading side), someone will give you a job - on the high end of things, there really aren't that many people doing this work.

I think you're confusing regular finance employees (aka the thousands of people laid off) and the top-end finance MDs with either years of trading returns or an assload of relationships in m&a advisory. Those people will always have jobs, since they're non replacable.

Dubia is on a downward spiral.

It was trying to be the financial capital of the ME, and probably still is, but there's a lot of trouble in paradise right now.


Laid-Off Foreigners Flee as Dubai Spirals Down
By ROBERT F. WORTH

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates ? Sofia, a 34-year-old Frenchwoman, moved here a year ago to take a job in advertising, so confident about Dubai?s fast-growing economy that she bought an apartment for almost $300,000 with a 15-year mortgage.

Now, like many of the foreign workers who make up 90 percent of the population here, she has been laid off and faces the prospect of being forced to leave this Persian Gulf city ? or worse.

?I?m really scared of what could happen, because I bought property here,? said Sofia, who asked that her last name be withheld because she is still hunting for a new job. ?If I can?t pay it off, I was told I could end up in debtors? prison.?

With Dubai?s economy in free fall, newspapers have reported that more than 3,000 cars sit abandoned in the parking lot at the Dubai Airport, left by fleeing, debt-ridden foreigners (who could in fact be imprisoned if they failed to pay their bills). Some are said to have maxed-out credit cards inside and notes of apology taped to the windshield.

The government says the real number is much lower. But the stories contain at least a grain of truth: jobless people here lose their work visas and then must leave the country within a month. That in turn reduces spending, creates housing vacancies and lowers real estate prices, in a downward spiral that has left parts of Dubai ? once hailed as the economic superpower of the Middle East ? looking like a ghost town.

No one knows how bad things have become, though it is clear that tens of thousands have left, real estate prices have crashed and scores of Dubai?s major construction projects have been suspended or canceled. But with the government unwilling to provide data, rumors are bound to flourish, damaging confidence and further undermining the economy.

Instead of moving toward greater transparency, the emirates seem to be moving in the other direction. A new draft media law would make it a crime to damage the country?s reputation or economy, punishable by fines of up to 1 million dirhams (about $272,000). Some say it is already having a chilling effect on reporting about the crisis.

Last month, local newspapers reported that Dubai was canceling 1,500 work visas every day, citing unnamed government officials. Asked about the number, Humaid bin Dimas, a spokesman for Dubai?s Labor Ministry, said he would not confirm or deny it and refused to comment further. Some say the true figure is much higher.

?At the moment there is a readiness to believe the worst,? said Simon Williams, HSBC bank?s chief economist in Dubai. ?And the limits on data make it difficult to counter the rumors.?

Some things are clear: real estate prices, which rose dramatically during Dubai?s six-year boom, have dropped 30 percent or more over the past two or three months in some parts of the city. Last week, Moody?s Investor?s Service announced that it might downgrade its ratings on six of Dubai?s most prominent state-owned companies, citing a deterioration in the economic outlook. So many used luxury cars are for sale , they are sometimes sold for 40 percent less than the asking price two months ago, car dealers say. Dubai?s roads, usually thick with traffic at this time of year, are now mostly clear.

Some analysts say the crisis is likely to have long-lasting effects on the seven-member emirates federation, where Dubai has long played rebellious younger brother to oil-rich and more conservative Abu Dhabi. Dubai officials, swallowing their pride, have made clear that they would be open to a bailout, but so far Abu Dhabi has offered assistance only to its own banks.

?Why is Abu Dhabi allowing its neighbor to have its international reputation trashed, when it could bail out Dubai?s banks and restore confidence?? said Christopher M. Davidson, who predicted the current crisis in ?Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success,? a book published last year. ?Perhaps the plan is to centralize the U.A.E.? under Abu Dhabi?s control, he mused, in a move that would sharply curtail Dubai?s independence and perhaps change its signature freewheeling style.

For many foreigners, Dubai had seemed at first to be a refuge, relatively insulated from the panic that began hitting the rest of the world last autumn. The Persian Gulf is cushioned by vast oil and gas wealth, and some who lost jobs in New York and London began applying here.

But Dubai, unlike Abu Dhabi or nearby Qatar and Saudi Arabia, does not have its own oil, and had built its reputation on real estate, finance and tourism. Now, many expatriates here talk about Dubai as though it were a con game all along. Lurid rumors spread quickly: the Palm Jumeira, an artificial island that is one of this city?s trademark developments, is said to be sinking, and when you turn the faucets in the hotels built atop it, only cockroaches come out.

?Is it going to get better? They tell you that, but I don?t know what to believe anymore,? said Sofia, who still hopes to find a job before her time runs out. ?People are really panicking quickly.?

Hamza Thiab, a 27-year-old Iraqi who moved here from Baghdad in 2005, lost his job with an engineering firm six weeks ago. He has until the end of February to find a job, or he must leave. ?I?ve been looking for a new job for three months, and I?ve only had two interviews,? he said. ?Before, you used to open up the papers here and see dozens of jobs. The minimum for a civil engineer with four years? experience used to be 15,000 dirhams a month. Now, the maximum you?ll get is 8,000,? or about $2,000.

Mr. Thiab was sitting in a Costa Coffee Shop in the Ibn Battuta mall, where most of the customers seemed to be single men sitting alone, dolefully drinking coffee at midday. If he fails to find a job, he will have to go to Jordan, where he has family members ? Iraq is still too dangerous, he says ? though the situation is no better there. Before that, he will have to borrow money from his father to pay off the more than $12,000 he still owes on a bank loan for his Honda Civic. Iraqi friends bought fancier cars and are now, with no job, struggling to sell them.

?Before, so many of us were living a good life here,? Mr. Thiab said. ?Now we cannot pay our loans. We are all just sleeping, smoking, drinking coffee and having headaches because of the situation.?


 
The best part about this is you know these businesses don't want anything to do with government money ever again. Politics getting into business just reeks of stupidity, if these congressional hearings have taught me anything.
 
Dubai is a bubble itself, the place has become unsustainable at the rate it's been going, so there's no salvation there for the bankers.

The lawls about these retention bonuses is that there's nothing to prevent the person from taking the "retention" money and still leaving.
In any case, if you're a known money generator (on either banking on trading side), someone will give you a job - on the high end of things, there really aren't that many people doing this work.
Then they can find work at a profitable enterprise that doesn't need government tit to pay them.
It was trying to be the financial capital of the ME, and probably still is, but there's a lot of trouble in paradise right now.
Heh, I wrote the above before getting to this part of the thread.

My brother lived in Dubai until a few months ago and said the place has become a farce. It sounds exactly like the kind of bubble we've seen here, but compounded by even more hysteria. He was going to buy property and almost did and it just kept going up and up and up. He makes really good money in his field but he said that his apartment was about to renew its lease and the rent had gone through the ceiling. If we distil dubai down it's nothing but a bunch of concrete and sand. Oil is the typical resource in that area of the world, but its price is down (also I think other UAE entities are the real ones with the oil reserves right now).
LOL, I like that quote.
It's great, I need to remember it.
 
I relied upon my memory for that quote, and my memory has selective sector failure. 🙂

The correct quote is:

"The graveyards are full of indispensible people" Charles de Gaulle

-Robert
 
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