MENSA and similar organizations/clubs, etc.

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie
What do you think about MENSA, is it a good way to acquaint yourself with intelligent people, and in turn possibly find friends that can carry intelligent conversations. Or does it end up being just another competitive thing, a numbers game, to see whose IQ is the highest?

I have zero experience with such groups, but I enjoy conversation with smart people, and have considered maybe looking into joining. Would love to hear if anybody else has any experiences with MENSA and the like, thanks =)

If you enjoy conversation with pretentious smart people, then MENSA is your cup of tea. You probably won't have to worry about competitiveness because they're too concerned with "we're better than everyone else" instead of "I'm better than you".

On the other hand, if it doesn't cost much to take a test and attend a sampler meeting (without paying dues), then maybe it's worth your time to check out.

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: Cheesemoo
They are always right too you know......

Or feel they always do, I'd imagine, they're intellectual elitists.I don't know anyone from Mensa I don't think.

 

[Landroval]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

hmmm no, that is what people outside the group think.

Hence why you now have parents trying to make varsity sports open without tryouts.

...but hey I am all for having 140lb Percy defending the QB from me.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of all the PC "everyone should be equal" crap either. There should be tests and requirements to get into things. I'm not one that's for the elimination of everything competitive.

As for the groups mentioned by the OP, I wouldn't be outside those groups. I wouldn't pay the money to join, but I would probably pass the test. If the cutoff is the top 2%, then I'm in (I was tested in school by one of the long tests with hundreds of questions, not the lame online tests that you see now)

hundreds of questions? Do you have any idea even the test you are talking about?

2% is a huge acheivement btw...it's not like 'gifted' where you just score above 140 or so.

Yes, it was thorough IQ test that I took back in school for placement into special classes (it was a long time ago, so I don't remember the exact number of questions. It seemed like a lot, though.) We had your typical A,B,C and D sections, a being the higest, then you had honors classes, and then there was an "ATP" (academically talented program). Both my sister and I were in the A, honors, and ATP classes. My sister was the valedictorian, I was a punkass slacker. Also, we scored in the top 2% in our standardized tests in school such as the CATs and HSPTs (I aced the comprehension portion with 100%)

BTW, an IQ of 140 would be well above the top 2%. An IQ of 132 would put you in about the top 2%, and an IQ of 140 would put you above the 99th percentile. Someone with an IQ of 150 would them above 99.9%

link

One reason why there are additional societies that are more and more and more exclusive. For example, the Triple 9s scoff at mere Mensa members and some guy made an even more elite one where there are only 3-4 members worldwide and he wrote the test (LOL!) It's clearly ego-stroking. Look at why Mensa was created - a "table" for high IQ people to come together and solve the world's problems. It's a joke.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

hmmm no, that is what people outside the group think.

Hence why you now have parents trying to make varsity sports open without tryouts.

...but hey I am all for having 140lb Percy defending the QB from me.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of all the PC "everyone should be equal" crap either. There should be tests and requirements to get into things. I'm not one that's for the elimination of everything competitive.

As for the groups mentioned by the OP, I wouldn't be outside those groups. I wouldn't pay the money to join, but I would probably pass the test. If the cutoff is the top 2%, then I'm in (I was tested in school by one of the long tests with hundreds of questions, not the lame online tests that you see now)

hundreds of questions? Do you have any idea even the test you are talking about?

2% is a huge acheivement btw...it's not like 'gifted' where you just score above 140 or so.

Yes, it was thorough IQ test that I took back in school for placement into special classes (it was a long time ago, so I don't remember the exact number of questions. It seemed like a lot, though.) We had your typical A,B,C and D sections, a being the higest, then you had honors classes, and then there was an "ATP" (academically talented program). Both my sister and I were in the A, honors, and ATP classes. My sister was the valedictorian, I was a punkass slacker. Also, we scored in the top 2% in our standardized tests in school such as the CATs and HSPTs (I aced the comprehension portion with 100%)

BTW, an IQ of 140 would be well above the top 2%. An IQ of 132 would put you in about the top 2%, and an IQ of 140 would put you above the 99th percentile. Someone with an IQ of 150 would them above 99.9%

link

The tests for 'gifted' / intelligence are at most a small portion of the A B C D type questions. There is spatial thinking, analysis, tons of communication type testing. These are given by doctors, psychologists at the very least in private and not in a room of students testing for 'placement'.

Scoring top 2% on a CAT test is like scoring top 2% on the ASVAB. Most intelligent people should be able to do so. Scoring top 2% on a SAT or ACT is a different matter and may or may not reflect more than studying intensely especially vocabulary and roots...although some use these as IQ tests. I would say many on a geek board like this can claim the same.

At the same time those that usually due academically well especially in pre-college and non-major courses are usually not those with a high IQ. Most valdictorians even if in extra curricular activities are bookworms spending hours of study a night/week.

Those of high IQ may show grades of C work in something like Political Science, Art Appreciation, etc, and then make straight A's through chemistry and physics, winning awards for report findings, only at the end of the day to make a 2-3.xx GPA. They may do poorly in general in all classes, only to have their time spent on a special project. In general though some of a very high IQ do make straight A's, but as a group I have found they didn't, however; most have done something extraordinary outside of that.

Back the the 2% cutoff, MENSA and a lot of others like this are only basing that 2% or whatever cutoff on those that have tested in general, not necessarily the entire population. Most people don't have these tests administered to them. This may have changed, but MENSA's top 2% was a lot higher than the cutoff of the top 2% back in the late 80's or so.

160 on one test (Stanford?) is considered genius...I would say right around that mark is where the cutoff would be give or take. But, I haven't bothered to find out. My IQ has been tested and I was in advanced/gifted classes through out my education. I took the MENSA 'workout' and 'would probably qualify'...however, the workout and other online tests seem to have the same questions and as such I can't be sure if I am answering from thought or memory from a previous experience (but at the same time, that's what rote knowledge is about in a way)...

All in all most people get defensive in this topic.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Landroval

One reason why there are additional societies that are more and more and more exclusive. For example, the Triple 9s scoff at mere Mensa members and some guy made an even more elite one where there are only 3-4 members worldwide and he wrote the test (LOL!) It's clearly ego-stroking. Look at why Mensa was created - a "table" for high IQ people to come together and solve the world's problems. It's a joke.

You should clarify that to the word MENSA means table.

Thanks for bringing up Triple Nine's (99.9% <- 3 nines)...they have a listing on their website of most of these society's.

High-IQ Sociey

Thinkers International
Email discussion group (Hi-IQ membership not required)

High IQ
Email society (Hi-IQ membership not required)

High IQ Society.com
95th percentile group

Mensa (USA site)
98th percentile group

Top One Percent Society
99th percentile group

Intertel
99th percentile group

Colloquy
99.5th percentile, email society

Poetic Genius Society
99.5th percentile group

Cerebrals.com
99.7th percentile group

One in A Thousand Society
99.9th percentile group

International Society for Philosophical Enquiry
99.9th percentile group

Triple Nine Society
99.9th percentile group

Glia Society
99.9th percentile group

IQuadrivium Society
99.9th percentile group

ISI Society
A society for those who, in addition to having a high IQ, also value creativity. The qualifying score is an IQ of 151 (SD 16)

Minzar - The High IQ Society for Christians
99.9537th percentile group

CIVIQ Society
A 3-sigma High-IQ Society, IQ > 150 (sd 16),
for all civilized intellectuals

HELLIQ Society
A 4-sigma High-IQ Society, IQ > 164 (sd 16),
for promoting the flexibility of intelligence

OLYMPIQ Society
The Universal 5-sigma High-IQ Society, IQ > 180 (sd 16);
OLYMPIQ intention: Globalization of intelligence




The thing is with these groups, it's not so much the ego stroking and the like 'outsiders'/'non-active' assume. It's a networking tool, more than anything. Same as a fraternity / sorority is, or just about any club/lobby.

 

[eLiu]

Eh I couldn't care less.

The way I see it, the people that are REALLY smart don't need a card to tell them that it's so.

And from my experience the true geniuses are really nice people...I don't think I've run into any smart 'know-it-alls' at my university. I've run into many know-it-alls, but they really aren't that bright...they just want to think they are...always acting like there's something to prove.

But like I said, if you're really smart, you don't have to prove it to anyone.

I'm not super-smart, but I think I'm most likely a good shot above average. I think I could make it into MENSA, but I'm not sure b/c I've never tried. Maybe I wouldn't make it. But that's fine b/c I'm happy w/my current level of intelligence.

 

[Babbles]

I always thought it was a small penile support group.

 

[bandana163]

I could probably become a member, I remember taking a test a long time ago and scoring 137 points (I was 8 years old), but I don't have any reason to apply for a test.
AFAIK, being in their club has no real benefits.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Landroval

One reason why there are additional societies that are more and more and more exclusive. For example, the Triple 9s scoff at mere Mensa members and some guy made an even more elite one where there are only 3-4 members worldwide and he wrote the test (LOL!) It's clearly ego-stroking. Look at why Mensa was created - a "table" for high IQ people to come together and solve the world's problems. It's a joke.

I agree.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
The tests for 'gifted' / intelligence are at most a small portion of the A B C D type questions. There is spatial thinking, analysis, tons of communication type testing. These are given by doctors, psychologists at the very least in private and not in a room of students testing for 'placement'.

Scoring top 2% on a CAT test is like scoring top 2% on the ASVAB. Most intelligent people should be able to do so. Scoring top 2% on a SAT or ACT is a different matter and may or may not reflect more than studying intensely especially vocabulary and roots...although some use these as IQ tests. I would say many on a geek board like this can claim the same.

At the same time those that usually due academically well especially in pre-college and non-major courses are usually not those with a high IQ. Most valdictorians even if in extra curricular activities are bookworms spending hours of study a night/week.

Those of high IQ may show grades of C work in something like Political Science, Art Appreciation, etc, and then make straight A's through chemistry and physics, winning awards for report findings, only at the end of the day to make a 2-3.xx GPA. They may do poorly in general in all classes, only to have their time spent on a special project. In general though some of a very high IQ do make straight A's, but as a group I have found they didn't, however; most have done something extraordinary outside of that.

Back the the 2% cutoff, MENSA and a lot of others like this are only basing that 2% or whatever cutoff on those that have tested in general, not necessarily the entire population. Most people don't have these tests administered to them. This may have changed, but MENSA's top 2% was a lot higher than the cutoff of the top 2% back in the late 80's or so.

160 on one test (Stanford?) is considered genius...I would say right around that mark is where the cutoff would be give or take. But, I haven't bothered to find out. My IQ has been tested and I was in advanced/gifted classes through out my education. I took the MENSA 'workout' and 'would probably qualify'...however, the workout and other online tests seem to have the same questions and as such I can't be sure if I am answering from thought or memory from a previous experience (but at the same time, that's what rote knowledge is about in a way)...

All in all most people get defensive in this topic.

Your bias against me is peeking through in this post . I can tell you don't like me, but you're not hiding your bias very well. Basically you just tried to cut down everything I said.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Your bias against me is peeking through in this post . I can tell you don't like me, but you're not hiding your bias very well. Basically you just tried to cut down everything I said.

It has nothing to do with you, I am commenting on all the points you are presenting that have nothing to do with MENSA.

You bringing up the CAT test was utterly stupendous though.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: eLiu
The way I see it, the people that are REALLY smart don't need a card to tell them that it's so.

It's not a card to tell them they are smart, it's admission to a group you can work with.

Think of it this way, most of the intelligent out there deal with nonsense everyday and idiots claiming to know WTF they are talking about...at least being a part of a group of equals your know you may get the help/answers you need.

The people here that think being part of a society as this = bragging rights are missing it totally.

 

[MagicConch]

I think MENSA is a dumb concept. IQ tests have cultural bias IMO. If they do isolate a group based on intelligence and culture, and their main focus is learning, you'd be limiting the amount of possible useful new information since you are picking people with the same qualities as yourself. I assume they hope to increase the #'s of intelligent people in a group in hopes of stimulating thought. IQ though is not the only basis for a useful discussion. New information via conversation comes from dumb people too. If they are hoping to create a group to accomplish work goals, play games with, etc., I can still see problems with that. The only thing I could see that would be useful are logical games, and even then it's sometimes more fun to play with someone who uses illogical methods IMO.

 

[PingSpike]

Sounds like a great place to hang out if I was a small dicked wanker that liked to sit around all day jerking off to my own IQ score. You're smart eh? Go cure cancer then you douche. Otherwise, you're probably just another dumbfvck in traffic blocking me on the way to work.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

You bringing up the CAT test was utterly stupendous though.

My contention was that someone who has a high IQ will do well on any test.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Sounds like a great place to hang out if I was a small dicked wanker that liked to sit around all day jerking off to my own IQ score. You're smart eh? Go cure cancer then you douche. Otherwise, you're probably just another dumbfvck in traffic blocking me on the way to work.

irony?

 

[BoberFett]

Wow 91TTZ, not only are the toughest guy around at 5'10" 183lbs, but you're also one of the smartest? You're probably also one of the richest and best looking too, huh?

I smell a PCResources.

 

[Landroval]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: eLiu
The way I see it, the people that are REALLY smart don't need a card to tell them that it's so.

It's not a card to tell them they are smart, it's admission to a group you can work with.

Think of it this way, most of the intelligent out there deal with nonsense everyday and idiots claiming to know WTF they are talking about...at least being a part of a group of equals your know you may get the help/answers you need.

The people here that think being part of a society as this = bragging rights are missing it totally.

I do have experience going to these groups from when I was younger. At least in the LA area, it was a joke and a way for losers to feel better about themselves. I'd much rather network in organizations where people are actually doing constructive things, rather than talking about how smart they are. Now it MAY be different in other chapters, but I really don't think so. Further, the only time I see Mensa nowadays is on grad school applications where people did really crappy on every other thing and they somehow think mentioning they qualify for Mensa is going to be impressive. If they are so great why couldn't they have done something to stand out via grades, work, strong application letter, references? Most people who qualify for Mensa never bother to apply or leave it out of their resumes, applications, etc. When I see something now about it it is always a red flag to me (based on a number of experiences I've had). Look around at our top scientists, humanitarians, philosphers, etc. Do you see ANYONE with a reputable career putting that on their c.v.? There is a reason they don't.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alkemyst

You bringing up the CAT test was utterly stupendous though.

My contention was that someone who has a high IQ will do well on any test.

not necessarily, but playing with basic skills tests, yes. A basic skills test such as CAT's and FCAT's are to test high school knowledge. Anyone with a high IQ that has been educated should ace them more or less.

You seem to be one jumping on a bandwagon I don't think you understand, although my responses have nothing to do with you as a person. This is an extremely complex topic, and a heated one. Just as half this forum now seems to know a 'few' mensa people (yet none of the other societies are mentioned oddly).

To those bringing up culture and language being tested....well unfortunately this is america and tests are given based on what is 'average' here. It's not to say there aren't people with a high IQ that just don't test well due to these problems. Yet most of these complaints come of talking about college entrance exams and essays.

One with a high IQ would do poorly on say the GRE, MCAT, PCAT, LSAT without the preparation for them. Tests are not where a high IQ shines mostly, tests of most nature test a specific skillset...IQ tests are a little different as they as testing the means to an end, rather than the end itself. It's the ability to analyse a vast knowledge base to solve complex problems with either a more efficient solution or to discover a solution to a perplexing problem without one.

There is a difference between being successful and doing well in academics vs what possibilities a high IQ can bring.

Most people seem to think it's as if those are saying you don't have a high IQ, one is worthless...it's hardly the case. However, in history there is a clear relationship between those of high IQ's and those that have changed history.

However, the dumbas$ replies of little wieners and the like fit those kinds of people well.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Landroval
Do you see ANYONE with a reputable career putting that on their c.v.? There is a reason they don't.

Right they don't but by the time they have a reputable career they don't have too, they also don't mention the awards they recieved, the internships, and other things getting to that end.

You are right, in any set of groups there are many that rather talk about themselves than 'things'. I have been to LA, it's much like Palm Beach here. A lot of organizations and foo-foo stuff. The Young Professionals Gala, The Future World Leaders Foundation, etc...

Many of the world's smartest people need to network due to not having all the resources they have before them.

Most of the world's smartest people also don't mention 'hey but I have a high IQ'.

Most here are claiming they do though.

 

[Landroval]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Landroval
Do you see ANYONE with a reputable career putting that on their c.v.? There is a reason they don't.

Right they don't but by the time they have a reputable career they don't have too, they also don't mention the awards they recieved, the internships, and other things getting to that end.

You are right, in any set of groups there are many that rather talk about themselves than 'things'. I have been to LA, it's much like Palm Beach here. A lot of organizations and foo-foo stuff. The Young Professionals Gala, The Future World Leaders Foundation, etc...

Many of the world's smartest people need to network due to not having all the resources they have before them.

Most of the world's smartest people also don't mention 'hey but I have a high IQ'.

Most here are claiming they do though.

Well some awards and things should be mentioned, but if I see somethng like Who's Who or Mensa my eyes bulge

As far as most people here claiming to have high IQs... a few things. One is that IQ is supposed to remain constant through life but if you take a test when you are young error is often introduced because of age. So lots of people test as gifted or have unusually large IQs but that does not make them high IQ in reality. It's just an artifact of the way age is factored in for very young people. So please don't assume because your school told you you were a genius that you are statistically so in the context of the larger adult population. One side effect of these gifted programs is that otherwise able-minded people are told they are low IQ and basically treated as such. Doors are shut instead of opened when they are most needed ans otherwise average kids are told they are gods.

Also, most people take those online tests where the average score is about 135. That's more than 2 standard deviations on most IQ tests (usualy 15 or 16). Even on non-tech newsgroups I see people posting they scored in the 130s and 140s most of the time. So the idea that ATOT is just filled with brainiacs is not really valid in my opinion (not to say there are not many highly intelligent people here). The only way I would trust someone's IQ score is if they take it as a young adult or later and in a testing facility using a standardized test. Then, even if they score high, I would point out it is really not all that impressive in the grand scheme of things.

edit: I typoed the word genius -- very telling

 

[spc hink]

Originally posted by: mryellow2
circle jerk imo

I'm in

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

not necessarily, but playing with basic skills tests, yes. A basic skills test such as CAT's and FCAT's are to test high school knowledge. Anyone with a high IQ that has been educated should ace them more or less.

You seem to be one jumping on a bandwagon I don't think you understand, although my responses have nothing to do with you as a person. This is an extremely complex topic, and a heated one. Just as half this forum now seems to know a 'few' mensa people (yet none of the other societies are mentioned oddly).

To those bringing up culture and language being tested....well unfortunately this is america and tests are given based on what is 'average' here. It's not to say there aren't people with a high IQ that just don't test well due to these problems. Yet most of these complaints come of talking about college entrance exams and essays.

One with a high IQ would do poorly on say the GRE, MCAT, PCAT, LSAT without the preparation for them. Tests are not where a high IQ shines mostly, tests of most nature test a specific skillset...IQ tests are a little different as they as testing the means to an end, rather than the end itself. It's the ability to analyse a vast knowledge base to solve complex problems with either a more efficient solution or to discover a solution to a perplexing problem without one.

There is a difference between being successful and doing well in academics vs what possibilities a high IQ can bring.

Most people seem to think it's as if those are saying you don't have a high IQ, one is worthless...it's hardly the case. However, in history there is a clear relationship between those of high IQ's and those that have changed history.

However, the dumbas$ replies of little wieners and the like fit those kinds of people well.

I see what you're saying.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Landroval

Also, most people take those online tests where the average score is about 135. That's more than 2 standard deviations on most IQ tests (usualy 15 or 16). Even on non-tech newsgroups I see people posting they scored in the 130s and 140s most of the time. So the idea that ATOT is just filled with brainiacs is not really valid in my opinion (not to say there are not many highly intelligent people here).

Keep in mind that the online tests are by companies (like Emode) that try to sell you printouts and analyses of your score. They'll sell more of them if the person received a high IQ score, because who wants a printout saying that they're average? Many people, however, would be interested in buying a printout saying that they're a genius.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Landroval

As far as most people here claiming to have high IQs... a few things. One is that IQ is supposed to remain constant through life but if you take a test when you are young error is often introduced because of age. So lots of people test as gifted or have unusually large IQs but that does not make them high IQ in reality. It's just an artifact of the way age is factored in for very young people. So please don't assume because your school told you you were a genius that you are statistically so in the context of the larger adult population. One side effect of these gifted programs is that otherwise able-minded people are told they are low IQ and basically treated as such. Doors are shut instead of opened when they are most needed ans otherwise average kids are told they are gods.

Also, most people take those online tests where the average score is about 135. That's more than 2 standard deviations on most IQ tests (usualy 15 or 16). Even on non-tech newsgroups I see people posting they scored in the 130s and 140s most of the time. So the idea that ATOT is just filled with brainiacs is not really valid in my opinion (not to say there are not many highly intelligent people here). The only way I would trust someone's IQ score is if they take it as a young adult or later and in a testing facility using a standardized test. Then, even if they score high, I would point out it is really not all that impressive in the grand scheme of things.

edit: I typoed the word genius -- very telling

For one almost any newsgroup of intelligent conversation should reflect a higher than average IQ...those that are average don't regularly seek out anything but TV and simpler things. I am willing to bet taking a sample at a Barnes and Noble would probably show 130-135 as well. Those that take online IQ tests I have spoken with admit they did go back a couple times for better scores. I don't put much faith on anything reported in a forum that is totally objectively based and without backing. One can debate the MENSA organization, but to argue about someone that 'know 20 or them and they all brag about how smart they are' is impossible.

That is a flawed group to base things on.

IQ tests that are given professionally usually do not change at all throughout life. I can imagine if perhaps a child / elementary schooler were tested then yes...however, that is not when tests are given to be an end all/be all.