Meet the future of burger flipping.

[WhipperSnapper]

I want one for my house.

Don't sell yourself short. Hold out for the 3D Food Printer. Coming soon.

 

[pcgeek11]

Since the Job growth has been in flipping burgers, the real question is what to do with all those unemployed when even their crappy Jobs are gone?

I'll also point out that there's no Wage pressure pushing McDonalds/Others to Mechanize burger flipping. It is simply affordable Technology that will bring about such a change.

So again, what do you do with all those people?

They can pick Strawberries and Lettuce... For $8.00 an hour.

 

[hans030390]

There's nothing wrong with technological advance. Decades ago light bulbs replaced candles and put the candlemakers out of business. Then automobiles replaced the horse-and-buggy and put horseshoers and buggymakers out of business.

I think the potential future situation we're approach is one where most processes are so automated and so efficient that it would be impossible to have low unemployment in nearly any industry assuming the world population continues to grow like it is (because, obviously this is less of an issue of the population dramatically declines, but that is not something that can or should happen quickly without other, serious underlying issues).

What do we do about this excess of people? People that are willing to work but have almost zero use or value relative to what a machine can provide? The difference now is that we have technological advancements, like in artificial intelligence, that could affect all of humanity rather than one industry or one part of one industry in terms of employment. I think AI could be that tipping point, because AI has a strong possibility to surpass human intelligence and capabilities. Given the right "bodies" and assuming a high enough level of intelligence and creativity, AI doesn't just replace a human skillset like most advancements have. It replaces the humans in their entirety. (I suppose it could be AI and technological advancements, instead of creating separate entities in the future, are used to augment human capabilities, thus opening up more opportunities for the race as a whole beyond our currently level of comprehension and understanding and thus potentially nullifying the problem.)

 

[1prophet]

And they will get paid more, but again they won't be the same workers that are there now.

They'll have AA's in electronics tech, so when the machines break they can either fix them or at least understand instructions from a central support group. They'll probably make $20/hr+, and it will just take one of the to run the whole shop.

And then there will be a glut of people with AA's in electronic tech pushing wages down again and fighting for a job that pays just slightly more than minimum wage with little or no benefits all easily replaced by illegals that can now get college degrees and work cheaper.

 

[waggy]

Don't sell yourself short. Hold out for the 3D Food Printer. Coming soon.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Welcome to the 21st century. Automation can and will continue to eliminate jobs. It may create 1 skilled job in engineering or machine maintenance for every 5 it eliminates, but the math is inexorable.

The problem with the OP's point is that it is inevitable. Even if you don't bother raising the minimum wage or increasing their salaries, eventually the machines will be more cost-effective. Maybe not if they work for $1/hr but this isn't the third world and no-one can live off that.

Machines doing check out at grocery stores, chat-boxes handling customer service, robots cleaning houses. They only improve over time.

Since the elimination of jobs through automation cannot be avoided in the future, the long term question is what happens to all these people who are out of jobs.

What happens? They become the peasants of course. It's a matter of time until our jobs are done by some device and the only ones left are the aristocracy of "old money" and the ones who steer the technology to their benefit.

It needn't be that way, but that's how the corporate and political structure exists. Keep power concentrated in the hands of the few and they will benefit to the loss of everyone else, including those who think they are immune.

 

[Scotteq]

I am an engineer in Silicon Valley. We are the ones building computers to outsource your job to a robot 🙂

So... You're building the fast food machines... Design.. Coding instructions, etc. In order that everything works correctly and accurately. But wouldn't that mean that, in essence, you really are applying an expensive engineering degree and years of industry experience in order to ask... "... do we want fries with that?" 😀

 

[cubby1223]

So... You're building the fast food machines... Design.. Coding instructions, etc. In order that everything works correctly and accurately. But wouldn't that mean that, in essence, you really are applying an expensive engineering degree and years of industry experience in order to ask... "... do we want fries with that?" 😀

If he gets paid a high salary to ask "do you want fries with that?" he's got most people beat.

 

[Matt1970]

A job that takes all of 2 hours to train someone for can be replaced by a vending machine? Say it ain't so?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Yup, welcome to the answers of increasing minimum wage to $14 or whatever you modern progressives make up as a 'livable wage'.


And this is only the beginning... Soon there will be no need for walmart employees, janitors, and other min wage level jobs.

It's easy to blame the libs for this one, this is what happens when you screw with fundamental required aspects of our economy.

 

[theeedude]

So... You're building the fast food machines... Design.. Coding instructions, etc. In order that everything works correctly and accurately. But wouldn't that mean that, in essence, you really are applying an expensive engineering degree and years of industry experience in order to ask... "... do we want fries with that?" 😀

I am working on computing components that go into all sorts of devices, what you put them in and program them to do is up to you 🙂

 

[BoberFett]

The problem as I see it is that conservative logic is a dead-end in the long-run. The argument is that by providing the safety net, you take away people's motivation to work. That is certainly true to some extent. I would never claim otherwise. However, it isn't clear why that is even relevant when the jobs don't exist. It doesn't matter how motivated people are when there is long term, structural unemployment built into the economy.

The irony is that automation can increase productivity and make goods and services much, much less expensive. Sounds like there will be plenty for everyone. But our most basic economic premise is that you work for whatever you get. I'm not maligning that idea. It makes sense. It may just not be feasible in the long-run.

Conservative logic of working harder to support yourself is no more broken than the liberal logic of take from those who produce and give to those who do not.

 

[theeedude]

Yup, welcome to the answers of increasing minimum wage to $14 or whatever you modern progressives make up as a 'livable wage'.


And this is only the beginning... Soon there will be no need for walmart employees, janitors, and other min wage level jobs.

It's easy to blame the libs for this one, this is what happens when you screw with fundamental required aspects of our economy.

Walmart is going to benefit from higher minimum wage, since their shoppers will have more money to spend. So they will be able to afford higher wages themselves. There is nothing fundamental about low minimum wage, US economy grew much faster in the 60s and had far lower unemployment when minimum wage was higher adjusted for inflation.

 

[silverpig]

I was at an A&W that had a self-serve order machine next to the front counter. There were two terminals that looked kind of like ATMs. You'd walk up, punch in the order yourself, pay and then go stand at the counter with your receipt and number and collect your burger.

Add that to the burgernator 5000 in this thread, and you'll just need 2 staff running around behind the scenes, making sure the burgernator is stocked up with supplies, and the machines are all working.

 

[nehalem256]

Walmart is going to benefit from higher minimum wage, since their shoppers will have more money to spend. So they will be able to afford higher wages themselves. There is nothing fundamental about low minimum wage, US economy grew much faster in the 60s and had far lower unemployment when minimum wage was higher adjusted for inflation.

It also had less people wanting to work:

see this recent thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2363227

Gee, when there were less people wanting to work there was a lower unemployment rate and wages were higher 😱

Who would have thought it :hmm:

 

[BoberFett]

You guys are pathetic humans, seriously!

Exactly why are you opposed to people getting paid more? Because you don't want to pay an extra 4 cents for a highly prepoccesed food product because your cheap ass is too lazy to make your own food!

And if that's not it then why the fuck do you guys care? Let me guess, you think it will drive up costs for everything else, despite the fact, as I already mentioned, the increase in pay would result in a pittance of a price increase in cheap food.

So what exactly is your reasoning to shit on other people that have no affect on you?

Cry more.

 

[BoberFett]

There's nothing wrong with technological advance. Decades ago light bulbs replaced candles and put the candlemakers out of business. Then automobiles replaced the horse-and-buggy and put horseshoers and buggymakers out of business.

Although the free market dogmatist ubermenschen and Lucky Sperm Clubbers might gleefully anticipate the evil poor (who just want to be able to afford a decent living) being put out of work and starving to death, automation will simply lower the prices of affected goods and services, which means that the money spent on those goods and services will end up being spent in other fields, resulting in new jobs in different fields.

Furthermore, labor costs spur innovation and the application of technology. If the supply of labor were infinite and the cost of labor were nil, there wouldn't be any reason to have efficient production.

What the fuck is with you idiots and your hyperbole? Are your arguments really so flimsy?

 

[BoberFett]

Walmart is going to benefit from higher minimum wage, since their shoppers will have more money to spend.

1. WalMarts direct labor costs will increase.
2. WalMarts COGS will increase.
3. What makes you think they'll spend the extra earnings at WalMart at a rate which makes up for WalMarts increased costs in 1 & 2?

There is nothing fundamental about low minimum wage, US economy grew much faster in the 60s and had far lower unemployment when minimum wage was higher adjusted for inflation.

Holy correlation jump Batman!

 

[Atreus21]

Welcome to the 21st century. Automation can and will continue to eliminate jobs. It may create 1 skilled job in engineering or machine maintenance for every 5 it eliminates, but the math is inexorable.

The problem with the OP's point is that it is inevitable. Even if you don't bother raising the minimum wage or increasing their salaries, eventually the machines will be more cost-effective. Maybe not if they work for $1/hr but this isn't the third world and no-one can live off that.

Machines doing check out at grocery stores, chat-boxes handling customer service, robots cleaning houses. They only improve over time.

Since the elimination of jobs through automation cannot be avoided in the future, the long term question is what happens to all these people who are out of jobs.

The answer is people will adapt. You don't see people complaining that they've been looking for a job as a bank teller for 20 years but the doggone ATMs have made them unnecessary. The economy isn't some arbitrary force. It's the result of people's trade decisions.

If we ever get to the point where machines can do everything that normal jobs do now, then literally no one will need jobs anymore. We won't have to work to survive. Jobs aren't made because of some magnanimous decision to create a job for some poor soul. They're made to satisfy a need.

I'm reminded of an experience of Milton Friedman:

At one of our dinners, Milton recalled traveling to an Asian country in the 1960s and visiting a worksite where a new canal was being built. He was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, the workers had shovels. He asked why there were so few machines. The government bureaucrat explained: “You don’t understand. This is a jobs program.” To which Milton replied: “Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it’s jobs you want, then you should give these workers spoons, not shovels.”

 

[bradly1101]

By raising minimum wage, obviously. Those former burger flippers, order pickers, and forklift drivers, due to their higher wages, have gone on to design and build the robots of the future. Clearly the answer is continuing to raise minimum wage further.

Humans again being marginalized by efficiency. It's not about what's best for humanity, it's what's best for the share-holders.

One small step back for man, one giant leap back for mankind.

 

[Atreus21]

You guys are pathetic humans, seriously!

Exactly why are you opposed to people getting paid more? Because you don't want to pay an extra 4 cents for a highly prepoccesed food product because your cheap ass is too lazy to make your own food!

And if that's not it then why the fuck do you guys care? Let me guess, you think it will drive up costs for everything else, despite the fact, as I already mentioned, the increase in pay would result in a pittance of a price increase in cheap food.

So what exactly is your reasoning to shit on other people that have no affect on you?

No affect on me? Government arbitrarily setting prices has no affect on me? What do liberals have if not emotional appeals and demagoguery? Take an economics class for Christ's sake.

We're not opposed to people getting paid more. We simply ask that it not be arbitrarily decided by government. Labor is traded just like any other good. The vast majority of employers don't value the price of burger flipping at $15 an hour. Most entry-level jobs that require little brain power or manual labor are not highly valued. It's called reality.

 

[Sonikku]

This will free up some of women's sandwich making time and make for more sausage riding time.

 

[woolfe9998]

Conservative logic of working harder to support yourself is no more broken than the liberal logic of take from those who produce and give to those who do not.

I agree, but you're arguing a point which will be moot in a generation or two. Not because one side is more morally correct than the other, but because of practicalities. When "working hard to support yourself" is no longer possible for many people, the question is academic: you either let these people starve or you do not.

 

[woolfe9998]

The answer is people will adapt. You don't see people complaining that they've been looking for a job as a bank teller for 20 years but the doggone ATMs have made them unnecessary. The economy isn't some arbitrary force. It's the result of people's trade decisions.

If we ever get to the point where machines can do everything that normal jobs do now, then literally no one will need jobs anymore. We won't have to work to survive. Jobs aren't made because of some magnanimous decision to create a job for some poor soul. They're made to satisfy a need.

I'm reminded of an experience of Milton Friedman:

I think we may have had this discussion (re: automation) before in the distant past.

In the past, when blue collar jobs were eliminated, people adapted by moving into the white collar sector. 80 years ago, we had a much higher percentage of blue collar v. white collar than we do now. Opportunities for higher education and training helped. Back then, there were many people doing blue collar work who were smart enough for white collar jobs. That isn't so much the case anymore because virtually anyone smart enough has gone to college and is in the white collar sector already.

Beyond that, I agree with what you're saying. Of course, people do not create jobs to be magnanimous. There must be a need. Which is precisely my point. Machines will incrementally replace the need for human labor. Blue collar jobs will go away first by a long shot. Many of those people cannot be re-trained even if there is a need, which is far from a given.

Hence my point - we can either feed these people or let them starve. The entire argument that a safety net makes them lazy is no longer relevant when there is no available work.

 

[theeedude]

1. WalMarts direct labor costs will increase.
2. WalMarts COGS will increase.
3. What makes you think they'll spend the extra earnings at WalMart at a rate which makes up for WalMarts increased costs in 1 & 2?

They'll spend at a higher rate than increased costs in 1&2, because they and other minimum wage workers will spend their disposable income at Walmart, and disposable income will grow at a faster pace than wages, after subtracting necessities.