Meet Al-Mahdi (the Antichrist?)

[Isla]

Dick Cheney is the anti christ and W is the whore of Babylon. Global warming is wormwood. The Dragon is China's industrial pollution.

/end of thread

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Coreten
I stumbled upon this book written by Joel Richardson that does an exhaustive comparison of the Christian beliefs about the anthichrist and Muslims belief of their messiah called Al-Mahdi. The similarities are very close and the book offers a strong case that Islam is potentially the one world religion spoken of in the Revelation. I highly recommend that you read this book if you are at all interested in this type of subject matter (or even if yuo are not). You can read it for free online if you don't want to buy it at
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm

Many of you may have noticed that Al-Mahdi is whom Irans president Ahmadinejad has been speaking of lately. His beleif is that he must bring about chaos in order to cause the Al-Mahdi (the hidden Imman) to return out of hiding and take his place as the head of the Islamic Caliphate.

"Antichrist Islam's Awaited Messiah: A fascinating study and comparison of the end-time beliefs of the World?s two largest religions. Through this groundbreaking examination of both Islamic and biblical prophecy, a frightening picture of a very possible future emerges. Discover the startling similarities between the biblical Antichrist and Islam?s Messiah figure known as Imam al-Mahdi. A must read for anyone who wishes to better understand Islam, Bible prophecy or the spiritual factors and the underlying forces driving the present early stages of a final clash of ideologies and civilizations."

A mind is a terrible thing to waste!!

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: XMan

Originally posted by: magomago
uhhhh no. In Islam, Jesus is the Messiah ~ al Mahdi is simply an "ally" of Jesus that will aid him to take on the Anti Christ.

Sunnis and Shi'ites can have differing point of views on who the Mahdi is. Sunnis say he will be born in the future and really don't care too much. Some school of Shi'ites hold the same view, although in particular there is one known in engrish as the "twelver" who believe that Muhammed Ali (not the boxer ) is the Mahdi and HE went into hiding and will come back.

Personally I don't care too much - too many people since the dawn of time have worried about the end of the world, and they were proven wrong over and over again...live your life the best and God will judge us

Btw I'm not discounting the rest of the stuff...I really haven't read it~ but indirectly stating that Jesus is not the Messaih is not true - and I recently attended a wonderful interfaith discussion on the topic of the Messiah where a Rabbi, Pastor (he ended up not showing because he couldn't find the building ), and a Imam discussed the general views so I post with confidence

I also find it peculiar for example that he relies on the hadith so much[which we in the west rightly criticize] , and at least in the chapter "the muslim Jesus" I don't see the Quran quoted directly once...I maybe wrong but I can't find it Please correct me if I am lol

I think its interesting that when we look at the only source of what Muslims believe to be the revelation of God - a lot of this speculation on "the Mahdi" simply doesn't exist and becomes magical story telling. In order to even come close to accepting some of these arguments, we have to rely on the words of the hadith which were compiled by humans hundreds of years AFTER the Prophet died and completed the revelation of Islam...and interestingly enough often contradict the basic foundations of the Quran

He refers to the Hadith most likely because that is what the jihadists mainly refer to justify their actions. Not entirely, but mainly.

And you are incorrect about Islam's view of Christ. They see him as just another prophet, who was superceded by Mohammed.

You are contradicting a fairly well studied Muslim.

It's kinda like me telling a Christian what he believed.

There is no anti-chriset, just a dream from some out of this earth fundamentalist nutjobs.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: Isla
Dick Cheney is the anti christ and W is the whore of Babylon. Global warming is wormwood. The Dragon is China's industrial pollution.

/end of thread

In this world there are but two extremes, love and hate, toda hate prevails because people such as these would rather hate than love.

But tomorrow.

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Isla
Dick Cheney is the anti christ and W is the whore of Babylon. Global warming is wormwood. The Dragon is China's industrial pollution.

/end of thread

In this world there are but two extremes, love and hate, toda hate prevails because people such as these would rather hate than love.

But tomorrow.

I can only hope!

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: Isla

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Isla
Dick Cheney is the anti christ and W is the whore of Babylon. Global warming is wormwood. The Dragon is China's industrial pollution.

/end of thread

In this world there are but two extremes, love and hate, toda hate prevails because people such as these would rather hate than love.

But tomorrow.

I can only hope!

I'll join you in that hope.

 

[LunarRay]

Of course one should understand the mindset of their 'enemy' as it allows one to plan with some sense of the 'game'.

I don't think Islam considers Jesus as THE Messiah but, rather, one of the prophets of God... and that Muhammad brought to the people THE message... and that the message is "next stop is heaven'' for the believer. No further events need occur to make way for the Messiah... he's been here... and of course the Jew still awaits.. but they have to build that temple on the edge of the Dome of the Rock grounds... and the Christian awaits that event as well.. So... each is still able to claim they are Right!... What I think is essential is for the Jewish Temple to make its way onto the landscape and THEN I'll expect all hell to break loose somewhere over there and done in the name of prophesy comes to the moment.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Of course one should understand the mindset of their 'enemy' as it allows one to plan with some sense of the 'game'.

I don't think Islam considers Jesus as THE Messiah but, rather, one of the prophets of God... and that Muhammad brought to the people THE message... and that the message is "next stop is heaven'' for the believer. No further events need occur to make way for the Messiah... he's been here... and of course the Jew still awaits.. but they have to build that temple on the edge of the Dome of the Rock grounds... and the Christian awaits that event as well.. So... each is still able to claim they are Right!... What I think is essential is for the Jewish Temple to make its way onto the landscape and THEN I'll expect all hell to break loose somewhere over there and done in the name of prophesy comes to the moment.

I'm not Muslim but i have read the Koran and i have partaken in meetings with Mullahs, both Muslim meetings and interfaith meetings and they all agree on Jesus as the Messiah, these have been mostly Shiiite people, Wahabbis i don't even want to meet.

i appreciate your thoughts but the fact that the Koran builds upon both of the other while invalidating neiter makes it pretty irrelevant.

Basically, no.

 

[Moonbeam]

We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

I didn't go through armageddeon as a shild, i went through it as an adult, i was petty much jus lured into what i thought would be a beter word.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

I didn't go through armageddeon as a shild, i went through it as an adult, i was petty much jus lured into what i thought would be a beter word.

My post was not in reference to yours. However, I disagree with you. I believe you do not remember. You can't imagine how hard it is to do, I think. It is not something we can argue. I think I know what you do not and words won't change that. I also would have never believed, but experiences have changed my mind.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

I didn't go through armageddeon as a shild, i went through it as an adult, i was petty much jus lured into what i thought would be a beter word.

My post was not in reference to yours. However, I disagree with you. I believe you do not remember. You can't imagine how hard it is to do, I think. It is not something we can argue. I think I know what you do not and words won't change that. I also would have never believed, but experiences have changed my mind.

Yet i do, and it was a painful transition, not as you would belive, i am guessing you don't have childern, i do, afther you do you fight with love in your heart no matter what.

So maybe instead of labeling pain, you would learn that it can pass.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

I didn't go through armageddeon as a shild, i went through it as an adult, i was petty much jus lured into what i thought would be a beter word.

My post was not in reference to yours. However, I disagree with you. I believe you do not remember. You can't imagine how hard it is to do, I think. It is not something we can argue. I think I know what you do not and words won't change that. I also would have never believed, but experiences have changed my mind.

Yet i do, and it was a painful transition, not as you would belive, i am guessing you don't have childern, i do, afther you do you fight with love in your heart no matter what.

So maybe instead of labeling pain, you would learn that it can pass.

You are talking to your imagination, not to me. I do not think you understand what I am saying. Humanity is deeply ill with the disease of self hate we acquired as children. Awareness of this truth is deeply repressed and surfaces as a need to self destruct to get close to these buried feelings. We destroy our world, thereby. Until humanity awakens to the fact that all the horror it fears has already happened we will continue down the path of self destruction. This is how it is. We do not want to remember. We would rather destroy the world than remember and we likely will. We come closer and closer every day.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

I didn't go through armageddeon as a shild, i went through it as an adult, i was petty much jus lured into what i thought would be a beter word.

My post was not in reference to yours. However, I disagree with you. I believe you do not remember. You can't imagine how hard it is to do, I think. It is not something we can argue. I think I know what you do not and words won't change that. I also would have never believed, but experiences have changed my mind.

Yet i do, and it was a painful transition, not as you would belive, i am guessing you don't have childern, i do, afther you do you fight with love in your heart no matter what.

So maybe instead of labeling pain, you would learn that it can pass.

You are talking to your imagination, not to me. I do not think you understand what I am saying. Humanity is deeply ill with the disease of self hate we acquired as children. Awareness of this truth is deeply repressed and surfaces as a need to self destruct to get close to these buried feelings. We destroy our world, thereby. Until humanity awakens to the fact that all the horror it fears has already happened we will continue down the path of self destruction. This is how it is. We do not want to remember. We would rather destroy the world than remember and we likely will. We come closer and closer every day.

No, you are wrong, you may not hear me but i am talking to you, i do understand what yo are saying but i do not agree, is that so hard to accept, i may come to the same conclusions that you do but i come to them by different conclusions.

I think most DO care but i don't live in a socidety where profit trumphs healt issues.

Not everyone is like yo and not every counry is like the USA, people ARE differnt, it'd be far from pretty much anyone to make a profit that would affect the environment in Sweden, if would heat him up and besides we have 92314 exact values of compunds.

So what is your point?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't understand how this comparison could make any sense, even if I did buy into the whole "end-times" faith. Because that's just it, I can only believe ONE of the depictions, and only ONE of the depictions of the "end times" could be factual. Both Islam and Christianity can't be right at the same time, so it makes no sense to compare a Muslim prophesy to a Christian one.

Maybe I'll get stoned for saying this, but I'm down with that. What if both of them CAN be right? What if both of them are valid options that appeal to different sets of people and show God (or, to 'truth', if you prefer) to both sets? What if all religions point the same direction using different methods? It's like navigating using a map, compass, the stars, the sun, or the side of the tree that moss grows on. As long as you head in the right direction, is one method necessarily wrong? I'm not saying that this is true, but I am not so sure that it's safe to say that all religions are diametrically opposed, either.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We all went through Armageddon as children and now project it out there in the world. What we fear is not Armageddon tomorrow, but remembering.

I didn't go through armageddeon as a shild, i went through it as an adult, i was petty much jus lured into what i thought would be a beter word.

My post was not in reference to yours. However, I disagree with you. I believe you do not remember. You can't imagine how hard it is to do, I think. It is not something we can argue. I think I know what you do not and words won't change that. I also would have never believed, but experiences have changed my mind.

Yet i do, and it was a painful transition, not as you would belive, i am guessing you don't have childern, i do, afther you do you fight with love in your heart no matter what.

So maybe instead of labeling pain, you would learn that it can pass.

You are talking to your imagination, not to me. I do not think you understand what I am saying. Humanity is deeply ill with the disease of self hate we acquired as children. Awareness of this truth is deeply repressed and surfaces as a need to self destruct to get close to these buried feelings. We destroy our world, thereby. Until humanity awakens to the fact that all the horror it fears has already happened we will continue down the path of self destruction. This is how it is. We do not want to remember. We would rather destroy the world than remember and we likely will. We come closer and closer every day.

No, you are wrong, you may not hear me but i am talking to you, i do understand what yo are saying but i do not agree, is that so hard to accept, i may come to the same conclusions that you do but i come to them by different conclusions.

I think most DO care but i don't live in a socidety where profit trumphs healt issues.

Not everyone is like yo and not every counry is like the USA, people ARE differnt, it'd be far from pretty much anyone to make a profit that would affect the environment in Sweden, if would heat him up and besides we have 92314 exact values of compunds.

So what is your point?

Simple really. Humanity will awaken and become something unimaginably great or it will go extinct from accumulated self hate. I am stating the problem as I see it. All the madness and psychosis in the world is from the destruction of children's natural self love via being put down as children. There is nothing wrong with anybody except that they believe in those lies. Those lies, unconsciously believed, create the notion of Armageddon and the end times via psychological projection. We are emotionally repressed and our fears of the end times are our refusal to realize we seek to reawaken those feelings. We seek to create new terror so that we can unconsciousl draw closer to old ones we repress from memory. And far from being different, we are all the same.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't understand how this comparison could make any sense, even if I did buy into the whole "end-times" faith. Because that's just it, I can only believe ONE of the depictions, and only ONE of the depictions of the "end times" could be factual. Both Islam and Christianity can't be right at the same time, so it makes no sense to compare a Muslim prophesy to a Christian one.

Maybe I'll get stoned for saying this, but I'm down with that. What if both of them CAN be right? What if both of them are valid options that appeal to different sets of people and show God (or, to 'truth', if you prefer) to both sets? What if all religions point the same direction using different methods? It's like navigating using a map, compass, the stars, the sun, or the side of the tree that moss grows on. As long as you head in the right direction, is one method necessarily wrong? I'm not saying that this is true, but I am not so sure that it's safe to say that all religions are diametrically opposed, either.

"I have never known anybody to be in trouble who went straight ahead." A sufi saying.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Of course one should understand the mindset of their 'enemy' as it allows one to plan with some sense of the 'game'.

I don't think Islam considers Jesus as THE Messiah but, rather, one of the prophets of God... and that Muhammad brought to the people THE message... and that the message is "next stop is heaven'' for the believer. No further events need occur to make way for the Messiah... he's been here... and of course the Jew still awaits.. but they have to build that temple on the edge of the Dome of the Rock grounds... and the Christian awaits that event as well.. So... each is still able to claim they are Right!... What I think is essential is for the Jewish Temple to make its way onto the landscape and THEN I'll expect all hell to break loose somewhere over there and done in the name of prophesy comes to the moment.

I'm not Muslim but i have read the Koran and i have partaken in meetings with Mullahs, both Muslim meetings and interfaith meetings and they all agree on Jesus as the Messiah, these have been mostly Shiiite people, Wahabbis i don't even want to meet.

i appreciate your thoughts but the fact that the Koran builds upon both of the other while invalidating neiter makes it pretty irrelevant.

Basically, no.

Well.... I can't debate beyond what I understand or understood what I read to mean.. but if you say that Islam considers Jesus as THE Messiah.. well.. ok... I'm guessing I may have read some sect of Islam interpretation of it all.

Edit: To clarify... what I understand is that the Islamic Messiah will come and sort out the Islamic issues and Jesus the Christian ones.. that Jesus will pray behind this person.. Not sure how all that could work.. but do agree that the readings do point to Jesus and not point to him... And finally that Muhammad will be this Messiah.. but with so many variations or subtle differences.. I think the sects somehow see this issue from the same source differently..

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Of course one should understand the mindset of their 'enemy' as it allows one to plan with some sense of the 'game'.

I don't think Islam considers Jesus as THE Messiah but, rather, one of the prophets of God... and that Muhammad brought to the people THE message... and that the message is "next stop is heaven'' for the believer. No further events need occur to make way for the Messiah... he's been here... and of course the Jew still awaits.. but they have to build that temple on the edge of the Dome of the Rock grounds... and the Christian awaits that event as well.. So... each is still able to claim they are Right!... What I think is essential is for the Jewish Temple to make its way onto the landscape and THEN I'll expect all hell to break loose somewhere over there and done in the name of prophesy comes to the moment.

I'm not Muslim but i have read the Koran and i have partaken in meetings with Mullahs, both Muslim meetings and interfaith meetings and they all agree on Jesus as the Messiah, these have been mostly Shiiite people, Wahabbis i don't even want to meet.

i appreciate your thoughts but the fact that the Koran builds upon both of the other while invalidating neiter makes it pretty irrelevant.

Basically, no.

Well.... I can't debate beyond what I understand or understood what I read to mean.. but if you say that Islam considers Jesus as THE Messiah.. well.. ok... I'm guessing I may have read some sect of Islam interpretation of it all.

Edit: To clarify... what I understand is that the Islamic Messiah will come and sort out the Islamic issues and Jesus the Christian ones.. that Jesus will pray behind this person.. Not sure how all that could work.. but do agree that the readings do point to Jesus and not point to him... And finally that Muhammad will be this Messiah.. but with so many variations or subtle differences.. I think the sects somehow see this issue from the same source differently..

In Islam Jesus (known as Isa in Islam) was the second to last prophet, but he will be the one who returns as the Messiah. Muhammad was the last prophet, and will not return as prophet nor as Messiah.

157-159

(Several translations of the same text)

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
In Islam Jesus (known as Isa in Islam) was the second to last prophet, but he will be the one who returns as the Messiah. Muhammad was the last prophet, and will not return as prophet nor as Messiah.

157-159

(Several translations of the same text)

Interestingly, this sounds like it is taken directly from one of the gnostic gospels (157, 158, which gospel I can't recall off the top of my head) and Revelation (159).

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
In Islam Jesus (known as Isa in Islam) was the second to last prophet, but he will be the one who returns as the Messiah. Muhammad was the last prophet, and will not return as prophet nor as Messiah.

157-159

(Several translations of the same text)

Interestingly, this sounds like it is taken directly from one of the gnostic gospels (157, 158, which gospel I can't recall off the top of my head) and Revelation (159).

Interestingly enough somewhere in the NT it is mentioned that Jesus said someone would come after him still. Since you usually don't say "I'll be back!" in that way it would indicate that indeed there would be another prophet after him. But fanatic Christians will either say that he indeed meant himself, that that line is not correct, or that that whole gospel is not correct.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Interestingly enough somewhere in the NT it is mentioned that Jesus said someone would come after him still. Since you usually don't say "I'll be back!" in that way it would indicate that indeed there would be another prophet after him. But fanatic Christians will either say that he indeed meant himself, that that line is not correct, or that that whole gospel is not correct.

Without knowing exactly which verse you're referring to, I'd assume he was referring to the holy spirit, just as he did 31209857392857 other times in the NT.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Interestingly enough somewhere in the NT it is mentioned that Jesus said someone would come after him still. Since you usually don't say "I'll be back!" in that way it would indicate that indeed there would be another prophet after him. But fanatic Christians will either say that he indeed meant himself, that that line is not correct, or that that whole gospel is not correct.

Without knowing exactly which verse you're referring to, I'd assume he was referring to the holy spirit, just as he did 31209857392857 other times in the NT.

At work, so cannot look up the passage at the moment.

The 'Holy Ghost' was at first a reference to God, it was not until later that it was invented as a third entity. Apparently monotheism wasn't that satisfying after all.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
At work, so cannot look up the passage at the moment.

The 'Holy Ghost' was at first a reference to God, it was not until later that it was invented as a third entity. Apparently monotheism wasn't that satisfying after all.

It still is a reference to God, unless you're a Jehovah's Witness.

 

[Moonbeam]

I seem to remember the one who was to come in the Bible is refered to as the Comforter, and that is who Muhammad is.

edit: Or at least according to what I remember of Muslim claims.