Measles spreading in Europe

[Exterous]

So far this year, there have been 41,000 cases in Europe and 40 deaths, according to the World Health Organization. The European experience may offer a window on how quickly things can go awry when parents choose not to vaccinate their children, doctors caution

At least 95 percent of the population must have received at least two doses of measles vaccine to prevent outbreaks, WHO said. Some parts of Europe are below 70 percent

Apparently Europe has their own problems with people not getting vaccinations

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna922146

 

[cytg111]

Stupid dont have borders. With all our amassed intelligence and knowledge, from no-understanding, no-knowing ape to man finding the Higgs boson and putting people on mars is maybe a stretch too far to encompass all of us. I dont know.

 

[coercitiv]

Stupid dont have borders.

It's not just stupidity, it looks more like a well coordinated information poisoning effort. It's quite brilliant if you think about it, since not only it produces economic damage, it significantly reduces the trust citizens have in their own governments. It's been going on for years now, with the effects recently becoming clear as the percent of vaccinated people slowly drifted under the threshold required to prevent disease from spreading.

Good news is there's also a coordinated effort to get vaccination back on track, and since many people where fooled into this through disinformation, actively dismantling the FUD helped many understand why vaccination is necessary. Unfortunately the wake up call had to include dead babies statistics at national level in many countries.

 

[cytg111]

It's not just stupidity, it looks more like a well coordinated information poisoning effort. It's quite brilliant if you think about it, since not only it produces economic damage, it significantly reduces the trust citizens have in their own governments. It's been going on for years now, with the effects recently becoming clear as the percent of vaccinated people slowly drifted under the threshold required to prevent disease from spreading..

Ok that pisses me off, pisses me off i didnt think of that vector my self to begin with. Who would be driving such a campaign?

 

[whm1974]

Ok that pisses me off, pisses me off i didnt think of that vector my self to begin with. Who would be driving such a campaign?

Those who not accept scientific facts due to contradicting their deeply held beliefs would be may guess.

 

[Exterous]

Those who not accept scientific facts due to contradicting their deeply held beliefs would be may guess.

While no doubt part of it I can't help but wonder how big the component of "Well, I have heard rumors that vaccines are dangerous and (insert disease here) has been eradicated so why take the small risk of getting a vaccine?" is. Basically just enough laziness and misapplication of information to be a problem.

 

[cytg111]

Also

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192

"Social media bots and Russian trolls have been spreading disinformation about vaccines on Twitter to create social discord and distribute malware, US researchers say.

Troll accounts that had attempted to influence the US election had also been tweeting about vaccines, a study says."

 

[whm1974]

While no doubt part of it I can't help but wonder how big the component of "Well, I have heard rumors that vaccines are dangerous and (insert disease here) has been eradicated so why take the small risk of getting a vaccine?" is. Basically just enough laziness and misapplication of information to be a problem.

Well big enough anyway. In addiction to understand basic science I read enough history to know that historically something like half of all children born died really early mostly due to diseases that we can now prevent.

It is a matter of time before Polio and Smallpox makes a comeback if people don't wise up.

 

[Muse]

Apparently Europe has their own problems with people not getting vaccinations

I had a conversation with a native American the other day. I asked him if he'd get/gotten a flu shot this year. He said he never gets those, expressed doubt concerning such programs. We were outside and he points to the trees, etc. and says "we believe that it's all out there." Meaning, herbs, nature, etc...? I don't know, I didn't pursue that. I asked him if he got a smallpox and polio vaccination and he said yes. I said it's basically the same thing. Well, it's different because flu just mutates all the time and last year's vaccination won't protect for this year's flu, but I think what I said wasn't wrong.

Too many people distrust vaccination campaigns. It has to do with distrust of government. People aren't educated. We really do have to put a high priority on educating everybody, everybody who can be.

 

[cytg111]

This may get me some heat... I dont take the flu shot. My line of thinking is that if I can fight it off myself my immune system will be better for the experience + as I understand it you have less than 50% at actually getting the right flu shot. Shit. Am I an anti waxer!!

 

[Jaskalas]

What good is English / Math / History / Science, if we do not also teach critical thinking?

Passing a test is one thing, being able to apply and make use of knowledge is quiet another.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Some misconceptions. First, education is necessary but neither intelligence nor education is remedial. Second, caveman brains are not good at prioritizing dangers they don't have direct contact with. If diseases aren't seen then the danger is an abstraction, and when i say seen i mean first hand in a personal way. Too many can't or won't "get it" and resist what they are shown. That's why with a few exceptions vaccination should be mandatory.

 

[kitkat22]

This may get me some heat... I dont take the flu shot. My line of thinking is that if I can fight it off myself my immune system will be better for the experience + as I understand it you have less than 50% at actually getting the right flu shot. Shit. Am I an anti waxer!!

You are aware that is not how vaccines work, correct?

Influenza is one of the deadliest disease processes we have and has killed millions over the centuries. This past year was one of the worst years for flu and that was primarily because we got hit twice. First with Flu A followed shortly by Flu B.

It is true, the choice of coverage for flu a wasnt very good last year, but were you aware it covered for for about 75% of the Flu B?

Also, getting the flu shot every year is additive to your immune system because you are preparing it for more and different antigens. Also, if you do get the flu it tends to be a milder course because your body was able to respond faster.

The flu shots are dead virus. You are exposed to viruses constantly, why not have a treatment that has been shown numerous times over in medical journals around the world to have a better chance at saving your life than any other medical treatment out there?

 

[Vic]

Those who not accept scientific facts due to contradicting their deeply held beliefs would be may guess.

Some religious groups are anti-vax, this is true, but the driving force here is really the snake oil sellers. "Alternative medicine" is big business, and it continues to grow rapidly.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Stupidity fixing itself?

 

[pmv]

Also

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192

"Social media bots and Russian trolls have been spreading disinformation about vaccines on Twitter to create social discord and distribute malware, US researchers say.

Troll accounts that had attempted to influence the US election had also been tweeting about vaccines, a study says."

But I really don't understand what's in this for the Russians. Because neither the measles virus itself, nor bad ideas about vaccines, respect national borders. So, surely, any damage they do is likely to spread right back at them? In fact, even economic damage due to illness outbreaks is likely to spread - less economic output in the West, less demand for Russian gas, for example.

 

[ch33zw1z]

But I really don't understand what's in this for the Russians. Because neither the measles virus itself, nor bad ideas about vaccines, respect national borders. So, surely, any damage they do is likely to spread right back at them? In fact, even economic damage due to illness outbreaks is likely to spread - less economic output in the West, less demand for Russian gas, for example.

I would imagine to sow discourse and fuel more fear, hatred, and further their agenda to destabilize other powers that keep them in check, whatever that means at this point.

 

[pmv]

You are aware that is not how vaccines work, correct?

Influenza is one of the deadliest disease processes we have and has killed millions over the centuries. This past year was one of the worst years for flu and that was primarily because we got hit twice. First with Flu A followed shortly by Flu B.

It is true, the choice of coverage for flu a wasnt very good last year, but were you aware it covered for for about 75% of the Flu B?

Also, getting the flu shot every year is additive to your immune system because you are preparing it for more and different antigens. Also, if you do get the flu it tends to be a milder course because your body was able to respond faster.

The flu shots are dead virus. You are exposed to viruses constantly, why not have a treatment that has been shown numerous times over in medical journals around the world to have a better chance at saving your life than any other medical treatment out there?

Actually I am pretty hazy about how vaccines (and immunity in general) works. Where does your body store the information about how to deal with a given virus, and is there a limit on how much such information it can retain? Immunity can wear off, right (hence the need for booster shots for some things)? So your body does 'forget' how to deal with some viruses eventually?

 

[whm1974]

Some religious groups are anti-vax, this is true, but the driving force here is really the snake oil sellers. "Alternative medicine" is big business, and it continues to grow rapidly.

There are also the snake oil peddlers who actually believe that their snake oils really work.

 

[pmv]

I would imagine to sow discourse and fuel more fear, hatred, and further their agenda to destabilize other powers that keep them in check, whatever that means at this point.

Yeah, but it seems a dangerous way to sow discord. Spreading that sort of stupidity is a dangerous option because it can spread right back to your own population. They'd be better to get people arguing over sports teams or something, I reckon.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yeah, but it seems a dangerous way to sow discord. Spreading that sort of stupidity is a dangerous option because it can spread right back to your own population. They'd be better to get people arguing over sports teams or something, I reckon.

I dont claim to be an expert on Russia's relations or plots. What I see when I look into how Russia operates is a oligarchy that doesn't care much for the general population. In other words, I dont think Putin gives a shit when they tightly control their population, and can simply replace them by annexing other areas nearby, and may eventually further away from moscow.

 

[Vic]

There are also the snake oil peddlers who actually believe that their snake oils really work.

No doubt of that.

The real 'problem' facing vaccination is how successful it has been. Hardly anyone these days gets these horrible diseases that used to kill more people than old age. That's made it easy for Big Snake Oil to convince some people that the vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases. It's just too bad that they're not only ones who will suffer from their ignorance.

 

[pmv]

I dont claim to be an expert on Russia's relations or plots. What I see when I look into how Russia operates is a oligarchy that doesn't care much for the general population. In other words, I dont think Putin gives a shit when they tightly control their population, and can simply replace them by annexing other areas nearby, and may eventually further away from moscow.

I suppose it's a mistake in general to over-estimate the rationality of the powerful. Pity, because I've always counted on the idea that most of the usual bogeymen state actors (like the Russians or the Iranians or the Chinese, etc) won't, say, help terrorists nuke London, or try to destroy the West's economy, because they've all got so much money to lose if that happened.

 

[kitkat22]

Actually I am pretty hazy about how vaccines (and immunity in general) works. Where does your body store the information about how to deal with a given virus, and is there a limit on how much such information it can retain? Immunity can wear off, right (hence the need for booster shots for some things)? So your body does 'forget' how to deal with some viruses eventually?

The answer involves hours of lectures for all the details, but the gist is a quick wiki reference for immunological memory.

The mortality rate (death rate) for pneumonia and influenza ranges from 5-10%.

https://articles.masslive.com/news/...fluenza_pneumonia_related_deaths_epidemic.amp

This last year was pushing 10%. I personally was almost one of those statistics as I spent 4 days in the hospital and 2 in the ICU with septic shock.

 

[cytg111]

But I really don't understand what's in this for the Russians. Because neither the measles virus itself, nor bad ideas about vaccines, respect national borders. So, surely, any damage they do is likely to spread right back at them? In fact, even economic damage due to illness outbreaks is likely to spread - less economic output in the West, less demand for Russian gas, for example.

This is where the Russians excel, where Putin excels, throw up a bucket of chaos and navigate the fall out. Any sort of distort and riot he can inject he will take.