Me Bonehead! My firearm stolen today.

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: waggy
If you feel the need to fight ove ra insult, someone cheating or thousands of other things then thank god you do not want a firearm. you are not one i would want carrying one.

Well that's fine, I don't want one!

You can't let people walk all over you - you have to at least make people think you will fight or they will just take everything you have. Doesn't mean you have to kill them.

I am not willing to get the ****** beaten out of me. who is to say they are going to just do that? why should i get the ****** beaten out of me? who said its a fair fight anyway?

Any fight between two unarmed men is infinitely fairer than one gun against one set of fists.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: randalee

Originally posted by: Atheus
I would rather have the sh1t beaten out of me in a fair fight than shoot an unarmed man.

If I were in the room with you, and someone was kicking the ****** out of you, I wouldn't stand by and let that happen. I would hope that drawing and going to a low ready and shouting orders in a LOUD voice would end it. If not, the threat would be stopped immediately.

That's nice of you, but I would hope that you did not draw.

The marine said one thing I agree with - never point a weapon at something you do not intend to destroy.

 

[randalee]

Originally posted by: Atheus
Any fight between two unarmed men is infinitely fairer than one gun against one set of fists.

We could do "what-if" scenarios all day, but "what if" there was a great disparity of force between the two men? I'm ashamed that I watched a skinny stoner kid get the tar beat out of him by another kid twice his size. 8th grade, but it sickens me -- I can still hear the crack of knuckles against skull in my mind's "ear".

 

[randalee]

Originally posted by: Atheus
That's nice of you, but I would hope that you did not draw.

Didn't say I would draw and point. Said I'd draw and go to a "low ready" position, pointing at nobody. If I felt your life were in danger, or were threatened with serious bodily harm, I wouldn't hesitate.

Do you not feel that would de-escalate the situation VERY FAST? (A man drawn and at a low ready, ordering a person LOUDLY, to STOP IMMEDIATELY.)

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: randalee

Originally posted by: Atheus
You disagree that a firearm should only be used to stop an attack? In a civilian context? What else are you going to do with it :Q

You are right. My only intention would to stop someone from killing or otherwise seriously harming myself or someone else.

I also intend to punch holes in paper with it... 😉

It sounds like you would try to disable some attacker with your firearm, to not kill him. That is just plain stupid. Its just the way you read that I guess. As I said, in the unfortunate event that I have to utilize my CCW, I am going to attempt to put two in the chest and one in the head. I am not going to fire a warning shot, not going to shoot in the person's general direction to scare him off. Thats my definition on stopping the situation.

I understand where you're coming from, my father told me a very similar thing, "if you have to shoot, shoot to kill." But the reality of it is that unless this attacker was a raging gun wielder (at least) who has already fired at least a shot, I'd be surprised if putting 3 into him didn't get you some jail time.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: randalee

Originally posted by: Atheus
Any fight between two unarmed men is infinitely fairer than one gun against one set of fists.

We could do "what-if" scenarios all day, but "what if" there was a great disparity of force between the two men? I'm ashamed that I watched a skinny stoner kid get the tar beat out of him by another kid twice his size. 8th grade, but it sickens me -- I can still hear the crack of knuckles against skull in my mind's "ear".

Sad story, but nobody died - that's a good thing.

Maybe he went on to learn boxing, became a lightning fast flyweight punching machine, and got his revenge?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: randalee

Originally posted by: Atheus
You disagree that a firearm should only be used to stop an attack? In a civilian context? What else are you going to do with it :Q

You are right. My only intention would to stop someone from killing or otherwise seriously harming myself or someone else.

I also intend to punch holes in paper with it... 😉

It sounds like you would try to disable some attacker with your firearm, to not kill him. That is just plain stupid. Its just the way you read that I guess. As I said, in the unfortunate event that I have to utilize my CCW, I am going to attempt to put two in the chest and one in the head. I am not going to fire a warning shot, not going to shoot in the person's general direction to scare him off. Thats my definition on stopping the situation.

I understand where you're coming from, my father told me a very similar thing, "if you have to shoot, shoot to kill." But the reality of it is that unless this attacker was a raging gun wielder (at least) who has already fired at least a shot, I'd be surprised if putting 3 into him didn't get you some jail time.

nope.

if your life or someone else's is in danger you can defend yourself. even if it means killing the guy.


the guy does not have to be armed either.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: waggy
nope.

if your life or someone else's is in danger you can defend yourself. even if it means killing the guy.


the guy does not have to be armed either.

Whatever the law is, why would you _want_ to shoot and kill an unarmed man? It's just so not necessary. What's wrong with one in the guts? Or just shout at him to fvck off or else...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: randalee
Do you not feel that would de-escalate the situation VERY FAST? (A man drawn and at a low ready, ordering a person LOUDLY, to STOP IMMEDIATELY.)

I would want to be left to it, even if I'm losing.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: waggy
nope.

if your life or someone else's is in danger you can defend yourself. even if it means killing the guy.


the guy does not have to be armed either.

Whatever the law is, why would you _want_ to shoot and kill an unarmed man? It's just so not necessary. What's wrong with one in the guts? Or just shout at him to fvck off or else...

a un armed man that is intent on harming you is just and dangerous as a armed man. I have no trouble shooting a man who is trying to harm me or my family.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: waggy
a un armed man that is intent on harming you is just and dangerous as a armed man.

He isn't if you have a gun. I know exactly how dangerous hands and feet can be, I have some experience in martial arts, but if you have a gun you've got the beating of me. Especially if I'm more than like 3 feet away.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: waggy
a un armed man that is intent on harming you is just and dangerous as a armed man.

He isn't if you have a gun. I know exactly how dangerous hands and feet can be, I have some experience in martial arts, but if you have a gun you've got the beating of me. Especially if I'm more than like 3 feet away.

i have years of wrestling experiance, and hap-ki-do. i still have no trouble shooting a man who's intent is to do me serous bodily harm.

is it fair? maybe not. but i want to be the one going home to see my family.


I would try my best to defuse the situation before. I would even walk away. but if they fallow me and continue damn right i would shoot them.

 

[randalee]

Originally posted by: Atheus
I would want to be left to it, even if I'm losing.

Doesn't matter what you think. It depends on my own mens rea. What was _I_ thinking at the time?

 

[randalee]

Created a new topic about concealed carry discussion.

 

[XNice]

wow, people without guns assume the absoute worst in the person with one. that is the problem right there.

us, the responsible(varying definitions) gun holders usually uphold the greatest judgment when carrying in public. Myself, I think with much more foresight than I used to. THe last thing I want to do is spend a day in the police office doing paperwork because some idiot tried to rob or attack me. I rather the situation not come down to it, but i don'y want to be damned if it did.

 

[jakedeez]

I am against guns. I am against people having them, for the most part. However I respect the law, and it is someone's right to have/carry a gun. I do think however if you have a gun stolen or lost, then it should become much harder for you to own and carry a gun. If you lose two, I think you should not be allowed to own one. While guns are legal and it is well within your right to own/carry one, people NEED to be responsible about them. Which gets to why I am really against guns, they end up in the hands of the wrong people.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: jakedeez
I am against guns. I am against people having them, for the most part. However I respect the law, and it is someone's right to have/carry a gun. I do think however if you have a gun stolen or lost, then it should become much harder for you to own and carry a gun. If you lose two, I think you should not be allowed to own one. While guns are legal and it is well within your right to own/carry one, people NEED to be responsible about them. Which gets to why I am really against guns, they end up in the hands of the wrong people.

oh no, someone broke into my house and stole all 4 of my guns. guess i can't own another gun...

the onyl way i can see this is if you actually lose it, not stolen. like you set it down in a bathroom somewhere and left without it.

 

[randalee]

Originally posted by: pontifex
oh no, someone broke into my house and stole all 4 of my guns. guess i can't own another gun...

That's right -- "No soup for you!"

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: adairusmc
If it is a confrontation where you are in fear for your life, then yes - kill the attacker.
...
If someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night their life is coming to an end.

Fair enough, but that is _not_ what I am talking about at all, I am talking about a normal everyday fight.

If someone wants to pick a fight with me, I will walk away and let whoever it is cool off. If they still have a problem with that, then they can fight with a magazine of 230grain hollowpoints.

You may think that makes you a big man, but I think it is simply cowardly. You are scared to pit your skills against mine, so you will shoot me? There is no honor in that. Fight with your fists, find who is the better man, and no one loses a father.

why the hell do you need to fight someone to begin with?

Because they insulted me, or cheated at pool, or stole something, or a thousand other things.

furthermore, what if i have no fighting skills? i'm just gonna sit there and let you beat the sh!t out of me? fvck that!

I would rather have the sh1t beaten out of me in a fair fight than shoot an unarmed man.

insulted you? shrug it off/ignore them
cheated? what, is this wild west poker again? big deal, its a fvcking game.
stole? call the police

sorry, but those are not reasons to beat someone up. wtf are you still in HS or something?

"I would rather have the sh1t beaten out of me in a fair fight than shoot an unarmed man. "

good for you, you get to go to the hospital or die because you let a guy beat you up.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: pontifex
"I would rather have the sh1t beaten out of me in a fair fight than shoot an unarmed man. "

good for you, you get to go to the hospital or die because you let a guy beat you up.

It is a rare fist fight when someone dies - infinitely rarer than a gunfight where someone dies. I stand by my statement.

Look, people fight, they will always fight right? So we have them doing it with guns or without. I'll take without.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: randalee

Originally posted by: Atheus
You disagree that a firearm should only be used to stop an attack? In a civilian context? What else are you going to do with it :Q

You are right. My only intention would to stop someone from killing or otherwise seriously harming myself or someone else.

I also intend to punch holes in paper with it... 😉

It sounds like you would try to disable some attacker with your firearm, to not kill him. That is just plain stupid. Its just the way you read that I guess. As I said, in the unfortunate event that I have to utilize my CCW, I am going to attempt to put two in the chest and one in the head. I am not going to fire a warning shot, not going to shoot in the person's general direction to scare him off. Thats my definition on stopping the situation.

I agree with everything except the headshot. Very hard to make shot in the heat of the moment and a miss is a round that could potentially hurt an innocent.

However, I think what he was trying to say is that you have to at least state that your intent was to stop or prevent the bad guy from harming you or a loved one. If the cop asks what your intentions where and you said "to kill him" they will lock you up for manslaughter.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: randalee
A few points I think we can all agree on:

A firearm owner should be responsible with their firearm. (Definitions on WHAT is responsible vary.)
Every person in this world has a RIGHT to live. And has the RIGHT to defend their life.
A person should honor another's personal and property rights.

What else do we agree on here?

that randay got owned by the mods?

Well, that's what happens when you say something stupid.

its actually inevitable really.

 

[randalee]

Wow 300 replies. We've kinda drawing this one out. I don't have much else to add. Thanks to all who participated. It was fun. I'll update the thread if I ever hear word about my firearm again.