MCSE. Worth Getting? Strategy?

[dxkj]

I was thinking of getting my MCSE for windows 2k. At my current job it isn't needed but it would be an added bonus. Unfortunately they don't pay for the tests.

I was thinking of just buying a few books and taking the test. Do many people do this or do most end up having to take a class to pass?


Im a programmer at heart, but kinda stuck in support/type jobs for a while I think. It takes 7 tests for a MCSE so I figure not everyone has them by now.

 

[alent1234]

www.mcsebraindumps.com

use the material there to study instead of wasting money on "official" materials

the forums there are great too. it started off as a rip off site for braindumpers, but now there is a bunch of good free info to pass the tests.

 

[torpid]

There's no harm in taking it. I don't think there is much benefit to it compared to the certs of companies like oracle and cisco. Personally I wouldn't take it if my company didn't pay for it, especially if you want to get into programming some day.

 

[blakeatwork]

Certs like MSCE/MCSA are generally asked for in entry-level type positions, as I see posted on various jobsites. Obviously, expanding on it to other disciplines would be advisable.

It more represents an aptitude and willingness to learn on your own time. And why not just head to 2K3?

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: torpid
There's no harm in taking it. I don't think there is much benefit to it compared to the certs of companies like oracle and cisco. Personally I wouldn't take it if my company didn't pay for it, especially if you want to get into programming some day.

ya but you can take exams for the MCSE that overlap with the required exams for the MCSD or MCAD, which are more programming oriented.
If you have an MCSE, your about halfway or closer to either of those.

 

[Monkey muppet]

I'm currently looking at employing a new person for a 1st line support role.
I don't care if they have any MCP's, MCSE's, etc but more of an apptitude and willingness to learn

I've only got my CompTia's which I financed myself, that gave me enough to get a 'foot in the door'.

I believe they are worthless, experiance and personality goes such a long way

 

[blakeatwork]

Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
I'm currently looking at employing a new person for a 1st line support role.
I don't care if they have any MCP's, MCSE's, etc but more of an apptitude and willingness to learn

I've only got my CompTia's which I financed myself, that gave me enough to get a 'foot in the door'.

I believe they are worthless, experiance and personality goes such a long way

When it comes down to it, given identical qualifications, personality, experience, most companies will take the MCSE/MCSA/MCP and give it greater weight to the person without it. Person A with the MCSE has demonstrated and applied knowledge applicable to the certification. Granted, without the experience to back it up, they are worthless, but it's better to think of them as complementary to a skillset involved.

Without a doubt, the market for MCSE's became saturated, and probably still is.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
I'm currently looking at employing a new person for a 1st line support role.
I don't care if they have any MCP's, MCSE's, etc but more of an apptitude and willingness to learn

I've only got my CompTia's which I financed myself, that gave me enough to get a 'foot in the door'.

I believe they are worthless, experiance and personality goes such a long way

Wish more peeps were like you bro..
here they wont even talk to you unless
You have craploads of exp (which I have 10 years in IT + 10 years in Navy doing similar work)
A Degree with above exp....
or Certs Cisco/Microsoft plus exp to back it up...

I spent 7000 bucks last summer to get certs to back up my exp..
so far im MCSA 2003 A+ N+ Server+ and working on Security+ and thinking about a Cisco Cert...
the company I work for Is a Microsoft Certified Service provider so every tech/call center employee must have at least an MCP in something..

 

[NathanBWF]

IMO experience is better than certs. I graduated in 2002 with my A+, N+, MCP, and MCSE 2000 certs and they didn't do me squat when trying to find a job. I only got a job because of personal connections. It looks nice on the resume, but isn't really needed. If you got the time and the money and feel like studying a whole bunch then go for it...

 

[Ranger X]

Why MCSE for Win2k? Aren't they going to roll that out and onto Windows 2k3?

 

[dxkj]

I think 2k instead of 2k3, because at work they use 2k, and to upgrade certs from 2k to 2k3, its only a few additional tests.

 

[muppet]

yeh but a person with experience and MCSE has got to be a good thing

and will beat a person with just experience or a lesser known qualification
techy companies like MCSE candidates thats for sure

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: muppet
yeh but a person with experience and MCSE has got to be a good thing

and will beat a person with just experience or a lesser known qualification
techy companies like MCSE candidates thats for sure

Only on paper. The problem in my opinion is that so many people who are not too bright or terrible at their job have MCSE, so while the test itself would seem valuable, in practice it has been devalued by negative experiences. Sure, it's less likely to happen with an MCSE, but the point is that the MCSE is not a reliable indicator whatsoever.

It may have changed in the past few years, but that was the view I saw all around me a few years ago.

I think this is less true of MCAD and MCSD, but even those do not have as much weight as certs from other companies.

 

[xchangx]

www.mcsebraindumps.com

use the material there to study instead of wasting money on "official" materials

the forums there are great too. it started off as a rip off site for braindumpers, but now there is a bunch of good free info to pass the tests.

Only on paper. The problem in my opinion is that so many people who are not too bright or terrible at their job have MCSE, so while the test itself would seem valuable, in practice it has been devalued by negative experiences. Sure, it's less likely to happen with an MCSE, but the point is that the MCSE is not a reliable indicator whatsoever.

It may have changed in the past few years, but that was the view I saw all around me a few years ago.

I think this is less true of MCAD and MCSD, but even those do not have as much weight as certs from other companies.

Becuase of crap like the top comment is why the MCSE is not at good as it used to be.

 

[TreyRandom]

dxkj, I have yet to take a class (or use a braindump) for any of my exam preparation. Studying the study guides and working with the OS (or hardware, or software, whichever is applicable to the certification you're pursuing) is usually sufficient to help you pass.

Practice exams from one or more well-known exam providers are great for testing you to see if you're ready. The best ones will include explanations of why the right answers are right AND why the wrong answers are wrong. Study the explanations even for questions for which you know the right answer. Anything you see in the explanations is fair game on the exam.

I agree that experience > certifications, but all else being equal between two candidates, certifications can only help. Any little edge helps.

You should have plenty of time to take the Win2K exams before they retire. At worst, you'll have a year-and-a-half to pass all the Win2K stuff - Microsoft announces exam retirements a year in advance, and they do so in June or July. Therefore, you have 1.5 years or more to finish the exams in the track.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your exams! Let me know if you need any specific advice regarding certifications - I'd be more than happy to assist.

 

[trmiv]

I want to focus on security, so I'm considering getting an MCSA and then getting a security+, and then using that to get the security specialization for MCSA. Then my goal is to get a CISSP. For that purpose, is the MCSA a good option? If not, I might just go a different route and get a CCNA.

There are so many freaking certs out there, it's hard to know where to focus your time, and money.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: NathanBWF
IMO experience is better than certs. I graduated in 2002 with my A+, N+, MCP, and MCSE 2000 certs and they didn't do me squat when trying to find a job. I only got a job because of personal connections. It looks nice on the resume, but isn't really needed. If you got the time and the money and feel like studying a whole bunch then go for it...

I switched careers from something totally inrelated to computers to IT. The only reason I got any Job was becasue I had MCSE on my resume. When operating in the real world, experience is more important than certs, but many HR people will throw your resume away if it does not say MCSE on there and they want an MCSE regardless of the actual talent (as in my case )

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: NathanBWF
IMO experience is better than certs. I graduated in 2002 with my A+, N+, MCP, and MCSE 2000 certs and they didn't do me squat when trying to find a job. I only got a job because of personal connections. It looks nice on the resume, but isn't really needed. If you got the time and the money and feel like studying a whole bunch then go for it...

I switched careers from something totally inrelated to computers to IT. The only reason I got any Job was becasue I had MCSE on my resume. When operating in the real world, experience is more important than certs, but many HR people will throw your resume away if it does not say MCSE on there and they want an MCSE regardless of the actual talent (as in my case )

Very true. Sometimes when HR people call me to phone interview, everything goes well until they ask if I have certs. I have the experience, but no certs, and that usually immediately turns them off. But, if I actually talk to the manager who's hiring for the job, they care more about my experience, and knowledge which they quiz me on.

 

[Train]

dont get me wrong, Ive met people who had certs up the wazoo but were complete idiots who knew next to nothing.

But I've also talked to recruiters who have to go through a stack of 400 or more resumes to fill a single position, and the 4 capital letters of MCSD or MCSE is one thing that will get your resume yanked, and put in the small stack of people to call. Experience is great, but who doesnt have great expirience on thier own resume? of course your going to talk about what a great job you did at every company youve worked for, but so does everyone else, you need something the rest of the stack doesnt.

 

[abc]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: NathanBWF
IMO experience is better than certs. I graduated in 2002 with my A+, N+, MCP, and MCSE 2000 certs and they didn't do me squat when trying to find a job. I only got a job because of personal connections. It looks nice on the resume, but isn't really needed. If you got the time and the money and feel like studying a whole bunch then go for it...

I switched careers from something totally inrelated to computers to IT. The only reason I got any Job was becasue I had MCSE on my resume. When operating in the real world, experience is more important than certs, but many HR people will throw your resume away if it does not say MCSE on there and they want an MCSE regardless of the actual talent (as in my case )

many people switch from a non IT career INTO a IT career, then CERTS... a credential will aid your cause.

otherwise it doesn't look as good to have a BBA in Accting or Marketing, yet you want to administer a LAN.


On the other hand, a person with a 4 yr IT degree does NOT need the aid of a IT cert. as much to get in.

This person should get it if/when the company pays for it, etc.

So a cert helps depending on the situation.

 

[aircooled]

Experience outweighs certs.... But sometimes you need one for a "foot in the door". I'll never get another one unless my company funds it.

 

[Aztech]

Originally posted by: trmiv
I want to focus on security, so I'm considering getting an MCSA and then getting a security+, and then using that to get the security specialization for MCSA. Then my goal is to get a CISSP. For that purpose, is the MCSA a good option? If not, I might just go a different route and get a CCNA.

There are so many freaking certs out there, it's hard to know where to focus your time, and money.

I second this question. I'm actually enrolled in an MCSA curriculum right now. It's $6,000 and I had to pay it myself since my current job in not directly related. I may specialize in security as well, as that seems hot today.

I think the cert can only help, especially to get you an interview. At that point, it's up to the rest of you to get the job. Like most things, there'll be some bad examples out there, but in general you gotta know your stuff to get that cert, IMHO. As far as studying yourself, I knew I needed an instructor since I don't have the discipline to study on my own. Think about it and then go for it.

 

[StageLeft]

I have taken six MS certs now. I have taken a class for none. Books are far better and efficient (that's a guess, as I've taken no classes ).

OF COURSE experience is better, but why do people ASSume that a person having certs doesn't also have experience? Certs helped get me the job I just had for 3.5 years (they played a definite role in my offer and the guy told me that it was a contributing factor), and they contributed to my new one, so yes, they are better than nothing. They are absolutely by no means "worthless".

 

[alent1234]

Originally posted by: xchangx

www.mcsebraindumps.com

use the material there to study instead of wasting money on "official" materials

the forums there are great too. it started off as a rip off site for braindumpers, but now there is a bunch of good free info to pass the tests.

Only on paper. The problem in my opinion is that so many people who are not too bright or terrible at their job have MCSE, so while the test itself would seem valuable, in practice it has been devalued by negative experiences. Sure, it's less likely to happen with an MCSE, but the point is that the MCSE is not a reliable indicator whatsoever.

It may have changed in the past few years, but that was the view I saw all around me a few years ago.

I think this is less true of MCAD and MCSD, but even those do not have as much weight as certs from other companies.

Becuase of crap like the top comment is why the MCSE is not at good as it used to be.

the reason why mcse's aren't very good is because microsoft's documentation has too much crap marketing speak rather than technical info. Why not just say ldap instead of calling it active directory? The MCSE exams are also full of crap like doing some tasks the microsoft way instead of the real life way.

The nature of microsoft's exams like many other certs is memorization. I passed the CCNA without ever touching a router by memorizing the study guide. Anyone can do it without knowing the real concepts of how things work or what to do in case of trouble. I'm studying for the LSAT now and it's a real test that you can't braindump because you need to think about the questions.

 

[Ranger X]

I thought about getting it until my 50+ year old uncle got his after couple months of studying. That pretty much killed it for me.