McDonald's workers want $15 an hour

[PingviN]

and looking elsewhere a significant number of Sweden's immigrants come from Finland and other wealthy European states.

Yeah... No. 12773 (79036 immigrants all in all, returning Swedes excluded) people came from countries that are similar to Sweden. Of these, 2300 came from Finland. 16452 came from the Middle East and North Africa. I excluded Iranians cause most Iranians coming here are educated.

I'll take Mexican immigration over MENA immigration every day of the week.

There isn't a shortage of labor here. Unions have a strong and accepted position and that's why salaries for these jobs are higher than in the states. Blaming Mexican immigration is a silly standpoint.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You're off your rocker.

Maybe I seem a bit harsh towards the menial laborer, but I don't see how I said anything that isn't clearly true. Fry cooks and cashiers have incredibly simple and replaceable jobs. They also make very little money. As such, a very high proportion goes to the essentials of living a quasi-decent life (safe food, safe water, stable housing, etc), i.e. we live in a society with an underclass that exists solely to exist. It's also undeniable that the world's population continues to increase, and that the poor, unskilled, and uneducated make up the bulk of that increasing rate. Advances in technology coupled with increase in labor will only serve to doubly devalue the worth of such labor.

Now, admittedly technology also has the positive effect in that as the inventors and creators of society develop more efficient methods of utilizing energy, more resilient genetically modified produce, cheaper tools, and so on, the cost of existence will decrease. Perhaps technology will permit these unskilled individuals to live more valuable lives, but that isn't something I want to bet on.

 

[kache]

Paying kids to go to high school with keggers will not help anything.

You don't pay them to go to school, you pay them to learn.

 

[MaxPayne63]

Now, admittedly technology also has the positive effect in that as the inventors and creators of society develop more efficient methods of utilizing energy, more resilient genetically modified produce, cheaper tools, and so on, the cost of existence will decrease. Perhaps technology will permit these unskilled individuals to live more valuable lives, but that isn't something I want to bet on.

I don't think there is any way all the lower class types in the world will be able to find employment in the coming decades. We're going to have a planet full of idle, uneducated poor, and that almost always leads to war.

If I were going to bet on someone or something in the decades to come it would be the military-industrial complex, not life getting better for humanity as a whole.

You don't pay them to go to school, you pay them to learn.

I agree in principle. I just don't see anything in the near future trumping the vast sums of money changing hands in the education racket.

 

[0roo0roo]

The entire Swedish culture and economic setup is completely different.

It's got nothing to do with a lack of labour.

supply/demand is always in effect, even in sweden.

what the dems and repubs for different reasons but with the same result is essentially they have imported foreign scab workers to undermine american workers wages for jobs that cannot be easily outsourced.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah... No. 12773 (79036 immigrants all in all, returning Swedes excluded) people came from countries that are similar to Sweden. Of these, 2300 came from Finland. 16452 came from the Middle East and North Africa. I excluded Iranians cause most Iranians coming here are educated.

I'll take Mexican immigration over MENA immigration every day of the week.

There isn't a shortage of labor here. Unions have a strong and accepted position and that's why salaries for these jobs are higher than in the states. Blaming Mexican immigration is a silly standpoint.

I was going by these figures, although looking further I think it refers to immigrants over all time and not necessarily recent ones, so my bad there.

I'm hardly "blaming" Mexican immigration; I think it's great that they are able to work at wages that spoiled Americans will not, and that AFAIK they aren't starving to death or living in the streets.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

I was going by these figures, although looking further I think it refers to immigrants over all time and not necessarily recent ones, so my bad there.

I'm hardly "blaming" Mexican immigration; I think it's great that they are able to work at wages that spoiled Americans will not, and that AFAIK they aren't starving to death or living in the streets.

Yeah they just live 4 families to a house. But you keep applauding that shit.


derp

 

[OverVolt]

If you have the time to tread it...

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/marx-madness

That is one of my favorite articles on Europe.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah they just live 4 families to a house. But you keep applauding that shit.

derp

What's wrong with that?

 

[3chordcharlie]

What's wrong with that?

In severely overcrowded housing? Plenty.

Or perhaps they are sensibly splitting a $1million 4000 sqft house with a big lot and a pool in the suburbs. That would make sense at least.

 

[OverVolt]

Went to work expecting all sorts of crazy from that guy while gone. Was not disappoint.

 

[Veliko]

Maybe I seem a bit harsh towards the menial laborer, but I don't see how I said anything that isn't clearly true. Fry cooks and cashiers have incredibly simple and replaceable jobs. They also make very little money. As such, a very high proportion goes to the essentials of living a quasi-decent life (safe food, safe water, stable housing, etc), i.e. we live in a society with an underclass that exists solely to exist. It's also undeniable that the world's population continues to increase, and that the poor, unskilled, and uneducated make up the bulk of that increasing rate. Advances in technology coupled with increase in labor will only serve to doubly devalue the worth of such labor.

Now, admittedly technology also has the positive effect in that as the inventors and creators of society develop more efficient methods of utilizing energy, more resilient genetically modified produce, cheaper tools, and so on, the cost of existence will decrease. Perhaps technology will permit these unskilled individuals to live more valuable lives, but that isn't something I want to bet on.

Yeah, you're definitely off your rocker.

The vast majority of people on the planet exist solely to exist.

 

[Veliko]

Historically people moved when there was no food or work. Didn't the Irish migrate to America due to the famine? The problem today is that everyone feels entitled to be able to live where they want. If you have no education and no skills then clearly living in San Francisco is a really stupid idea. Get the fuck out.

I was in Barcelona recently and it was just astonishing to see the amount of South American immigrants there and the amount of people who were doing nothing. I'm going to assume that those SA immigrants will leave Spain in short order since it's probably better where they came from but more importantly the Spanish should be leaving Spain. Unemployment is at 25%. LEAVE! If people would move to more affordable places with jobs they would solve a lot of problems. You can go to Africa or Asia and survive for next to nothing. Find a job there instead of sitting on your ass and living off the state. Someone told me that the Spanish gave 100% unemployment benefits for 3 years. I don't know if it's true but either way it was really shitty there.

All of us native English speakers can invest $1000 in an English certification course and go teach English in Saudi Arabia for $80,000 a year. There is no excuse. Adapt, Migrate, or Die. Words to live by.

Hark at Mr Misanthrope here.

 

[dank69]

Meanwhile in Sweden...

Working from left to right starting with the tall blonde and going only on information available in this pic:

Would smash
Would bang
Would bang with bag on head
Would bang
Pretty sure it's a guy, would not bang
Would bang
Would bang
Would bang
Would smash and die happy
Would bang
Would bang
Too many cheeseburgers, would not bang

 

[Nintendesert]

In severely overcrowded housing? Plenty.

Or perhaps they are sensibly splitting a $1million 4000 sqft house with a big lot and a pool in the suburbs. That would make sense at least.

It's to save money and be practical.

 

[Geekbabe]

At age 45 my job ended when the hospital I worked at was sold.. I ended up working at McDonalds for six months just to try to pay the rent to keep a roof over my kid's head.

The people there were amazing, the managers were great & wanted me to advance... but I was sooo glad to get a job in my field & get the hell out of there. I have never worked so hard for so little money in all my life. And don't even get me started on some of the asshats that came through the drive through.. shuddering still at some of the memories of fools without pants & Soccer mommies handing me crap filled diapers to dispose of.

 

[james7679]

At age 45 my job ended when the hospital I worked at was sold.. I ended up working at McDonalds for six months just to try to pay the rent to keep a roof over my kid's head.

THAT is admirable, especially in today's America. So many people would have just TAKEN public assistance and not even considered taking a job at McDonald's. I hope your children were aware of this. That is awesome. And that is what it's supposed to mean to be American.

 

[Olikan]

I don't think there is any way all the lower class types in the world will be able to find employment in the coming decades. We're going to have a planet full of idle, uneducated poor, and that almost always leads to war.

one day, companies will have just one worker...the guy that turn on/off and repair the machines

 

[Exterous]

one day, companies will have just one worker...the guy that turn on/off and repair the machines

Reading Geekbabe's comment and remembering my own retail days makes me think this might not be such a bad thing. Then all of the asshats out there can deal with uncaring machines instead of making someone's day hell because of their idiocy.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Reading Geekbabe's comment and remembering my own retail days makes me think this might not be such a bad thing. Then all of the asshats out there can deal with uncaring machines instead of making someone's day hell because of their idiocy.

That will be great until you decide to go outside of your home and you either get harassed for money or mugged because nobody has a job. We keep shipping jobs out and automating everything yet everyone is having kids like rabbits in heat.

 

[nehalem256]

That will be great until you decide to go outside of your home and you either get harassed for money or mugged because nobody has a job. We keep shipping jobs out and automating everything yet everyone is having kids like rabbits in heat.

I think you mean POOR people keep having kids like rabbits in heat. Unfortunately these are also the people most likely to be unable to find a job an mug you.

 

[kache]

That will be great until you decide to go outside of your home and you either get harassed for money or mugged because nobody has a job. We keep shipping jobs out and automating everything yet everyone is having kids like rabbits in heat.

Sterilize everyone.
Provide everyone with the minimum to live (house, electricity, water, food, internet).
Problem solved.

 

[waggy]

With that said, one of the main problems our economy has had for about 20 years is a significant reduction in manufacturing jobs and a huge increase in the service sector. We've replaced good jobs with skill less jobs. People buy these services with borrowed money. I'm not for encouraging this so personally I would never reward someone who worked at McDonalds for 8 years. That person could have bettered themselves. If you've been at McDonalds for that long you should be in management and not doing remedial work. There is virtually no skill involved working as staff at a fast food restaurant. Just because the job sucks and the hours suck doesn't mean you should get a raise. Get another job if you don't like it. Someone else will replace you. If that's a problem then get with your state and local representatives and lobby for higher minimum wage rates. San Fransisco is at $10 iirc.

/this this this this.

 

[Jeff7]

It's irritating when people's only input is not based on any tangible experience but simply what they've heard around. Talking points at best from some scewed source.

I've lived all over the place and the propaganda machine is working everywhere but it's really strong in the states right now. We like to try to justify our failing economy by critiquing Europe (or China, or ... ) without even realizing that Europe is a continent with 740 million people and 47 counties. If you're going to compare then do it by country. Scandinavia is doing much better than the USA while Southern Europe is doing much worse. If you want to be really thorough compare by state since some states are doing much worse than others. CA and NV have economies in the shitter while others aren't doing so bad.

And you've got the constant droning of "we're the greatest country in the world!" all over the place, with the implication that that means that we don't really need to strive for improvement. Based on quite a few measures of things like personal freedom, fairness of compensation, life expectancy, infant mortality, and working conditions, we're sometimes not even in the top 10. (I don't remember exactly; we may not even be in the top 10 for any of those things.)

With that said, one of the main problems our economy has had for about 20 years is a significant reduction in manufacturing jobs and a huge increase in the service sector. We've replaced good jobs with skill less jobs. People buy these services with borrowed money. I'm not for encouraging this so personally I would never reward someone who worked at McDonalds for 8 years. That person could have bettered themselves. If you've been at McDonalds for that long you should be in management and not doing remedial work. There is virtually no skill involved working as staff at a fast food restaurant. Just because the job sucks and the hours suck doesn't mean you should get a raise. Get another job if you don't like it. Someone else will replace you. If that's a problem then get with your state and local representatives and lobby for higher minimum wage rates. San Fransisco is at $10 iirc.

Agreed. Services do have a role, but you can't have an economy based entirely on services that produce no goods, with the possible exception of having a service that other countries can use, thus pushing money through your economy.

 

[nehalem256]

And you've got the constant droning of "we're the greatest country in the world!" all over the place, with the implication that that means that we don't really need to strive for improvement. Based on quite a few measures of things like personal freedom, fairness of compensation, life expectancy, infant mortality, and working conditions, we're sometimes not even in the top 10. (I don't remember exactly; we may not even be in the top 10 for any of those things.)

Hahahahaha. Really? What country has more personal freedom?