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McDonald's massacre

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madoka said:
I have trouble deciding whether people who keep blaming the tool and not the problem of mental illness for these kinds of mass murders are just flat out stupid or delusional.
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T9D said:
Right, and so with no guns he decides to use his car instead and run everyone over, probably killing even more. Or perhaps he decides to blow up the place instead 🙄

A killer is going to kill no matter what weapon he has. Now had another person there had a gun too then maybe he would have gotten taken down before doing it
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Some people won't bother robbing a house or car if it's locked.
They're thieves, but they're also lazy and unwilling to take much risk.

Someone might not go to the trouble of killing people if he can't do a really thorough job of it, or at the very least, kill fewer people. Equipped with lower-grade tools, such as lower-power weapons, and he wouldn't be able to shoot so many people.
Give people power and they often feel compelled to use it.
SWAT raids have increased by an alarming rate.
Police are now equipped with military-grade weaponry and don't have much problem waving it around to intimidate people.
Unmanned drones make it easy to kill from a distance.
Even sane people can slowly rationalize themselves toward surprisingly violent behavior.



And yes, you do have people who are genuinely mentally ill. Any tool they can find may be used to harm others. But again, if that tool is a variety of automatic weapons versus some knives or small handguns, chances are that you'll have a fairly different outcome.
Simply put, the tool matters.
I push a button, and I can activate a tool. That tool may be a handgun. It could also be a 1000lb bomb. It could be something far more powerful. It's just a tool though, so I guess that free access to them must not be denied.




Other examples:
Copyright infringement. Agree with it or not, it's illegal.
But people do it.
Why?
Because it's easy.
Many of these same people would not risk stealing material goods because of the perception of a higher risk, or because of the perception that it's a more substantial crime.
But a simple theft could result in something as minor as a fine of a few hundred or thousand dollars. Copyright infringement carries a risk of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines.
:hmm:


Or a hypothetical: Let's say someone figures out how to build a quantum computer, and publishes the instructions to the world. Most current encryption methods are suddenly rendered useless.
Cybercrime will suddenly jump. People with no criminal history whatsoever will become criminals.

People are easily corrupted by power.
 
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JulesMaximus said:
Yeah... we need weapons like this in the hands of civilians. To keep the government from tyranny or some such nonsense. 🙄
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Fuck, it's hard not to respond to troll posts. But fuck it. That was a semi-auto Uzi. WHAT A DEATH MACHINE THOUGH! BAN BAN BAN!
 
T9D said:
Right, and so with no guns he decides to use his car instead and run everyone over, probably killing even more. Or perhaps he decides to blow up the place instead 🙄

A killer is going to kill no matter what weapon he has. Now had another person there had a gun too then maybe he would have gotten taken down before doing it
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Or, because, you know, he's a criminal and doesn't care about silly things like laws that say "guns are bad, mmm'kay" he just buys them anyway on the black market and kills everyone regardless.

Laws only stop honest people.
 
Imp said:
Well, that's one massacre I never knew anything about. Thanks for randomly posting it?
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Christmas music and poor renditions claiming to be Christmas music have been playing in retail stores for awhile now. That's bound to result in violent thoughts now and then.
 
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I was 14 when this happened and remember the news stories about it. Little did I know this was going to be prelude to the future. Mass killings en mass. :/
 
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I thought you were referring to this massacre?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_River_McDonald's_murders

One of the killers is a millionaire now living it up while three people are being eaten by worms in the cold ground. One of them is a mentally disabled and has the brain of a 5 year old now.

"Darren Muise is said to have invested an inheritance heavily in the tech industry during the mid to late 1990s, generating millions of dollars in profits from stocks such as BlackBerry maker Research in Motion. Muise had planned to work with computers before his 1992 arrest, declaring them to be the "way of the future"

Canada has some of the WORST laws in the damn books!! Soft! 🙁
 
T9D said:
Right, and so with no guns he decides to use his car instead and run everyone over, probably killing even more. Or perhaps he decides to blow up the place instead 🙄

A killer is going to kill no matter what weapon he has. Now had another person there had a gun too then maybe he would have gotten taken down before doing it
Click to expand...


You can do all kinds of crazy shit with the Anarchist Cookbook.


Hell, I could probably improvise several things with bleach and ammonia right now.
Of course then they ban bleach and ammonia.
 
"The shooting remained the deadliest mass murder committed in America until the 1991 Luby's shooting"

Those are some angry fat people.
 
doubledeluxe said:
The sad part is he tried to get help...

Mental health care in the US is abysmal.
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The wiki page almost sounds like it's trying passively to pin the blame on the mental health clinic:

On July 15, 1984, three days before the shooting, Huberty commented to his wife, Etna, that he suspected he may have a mental problem. Two days later, on July 17, he called a mental health clinic, requesting an appointment. Leaving his contact details with the receptionist, he was assured the clinic would return his call within hours. According to his wife, he sat quietly beside the telephone for several hours, awaiting a return call from the mental health clinic, before abruptly walking out of the family home and riding to an unknown destination on his motorcycle. (Unbeknown to Huberty, the receptionist had misspelled his name as "Shouberty". Furthermore, his polite demeanor conveyed no sense of immediate urgency to the operator; therefore, the call was logged as a "non-crisis" inquiry to be handled within 48 hours.)

...

The following morning—Wednesday, July 18—Huberty took his wife and daughters to the San Diego Zoo. In the course of the walk, he told his wife his life was effectively over. Referring to the mental health clinic's failure to return his phone call the previous day, he said, "Well, society had their chance."
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But he called! But he was assured! But he waited hours! C'mon. It's not like he called a suicide hotline, where urgency IS the name of the game (apparently most people decide to move forward on suicide within 30 minutes of actually doing it or something, which is why those hotlines exist & work for a lot of people, because they talk themselves into it & can sometimes be talked out of it). And it's not like he actually went down to the clinic in person (which is giving it a fair bit more of an effort than simply making a phone call), all he did was call in (once), and according to the operator, he was calm & polite, not agitated or giving any other sign of having an immediate issue - and didn't give his wife any hints that he was preparing to go off the deep end. "Well, they didn't answer for a few hours, so I guess I'll go kill some people now". Or in his exact words, "Well, society had their chance."

Plus, it was obviously pre-meditated. According to the wiki, he had "a 9mm Browning semi-automatic pistol, a 9mm Uzi, a Winchester 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, and a cloth bag filled with hundreds of rounds of ammunition for each weapon." The training to learn how to use those, the cost involved, and the time & effort to collect all of that stuff isn't exactly an overnight thing.

I do agree that our mental health care system is a real issue here in the U.S. It's just such a difficult problem to deal with. The majority of people with mental issues aren't violent either; a quick google says that 1 in 5 Americans suffer from a mental health issue, but I don't see 60 million people doing stuff like this. So how do you diagnose & prevent stuff like this? We'll never get anywhere with gun control since there are so many unregistered guns on the black market, and you can make homemade weapons or use off-the-shelf stuff like knives...I recall China's had some crazy mass murders with knives where 30 people or so were killed recently.

I mean, we talk about violence and whatnot, but then Call of Duty sells literally a billion dollar's worth of games, where you run around shooting & killing high-resolution virtual people in a CGI bloodbath, all while yelling obscenities at each other. We live in a culture that encourages violence in the media - the news plays in 24/7, our movies show it, video games let you do it virtually, you name it.

But again, it goes back to how to control it. This is something I've wondered about, especially in regards to the homeless. Some people are homeless by choice, but some people just have mental problems that prevent them from living a normal life & don't have the safety net of a family to fall back on, so they're basically stuck on the street. The police don't have any real power to deal with them other than to move them along so they're not bugging the public too much. So how do you deal with an adult, who has mental issues, who is in a bad situation or could possibly create a violent event? Unless you have pre-cogs from Minority Report, it's not exactly something you can predict.

My friend's dad was involved in the Hartford Distributor's shooting. They fired a guy for stealing product, and in turn that guy shot a bunch of people (using a pair of semiautomatic pistols he just happened to have in his lunchbox) & then committed suicide. He claimed it was for racism, but as one forensic psychiatrist pointed out, people don't commit acts like this because of name-calling; he obviously had psychological problems. I mean, most people just go find another job if their workplace is really bad, you know? But how do you deal with that? They had no idea he was going to go ballistic; he was an employee who committed a theft & was terminated.

This is probably getting more into the P&N side of things at this point. I think that dealing with mental health is extremely difficult, but I do think we need to address it. This is one of the best articles I've read about living with a person who has a mental illness; I'd highly recommend reading it if anyone is interested in the topic:

https://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/
 
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PliotronX said:
I support the right to keep and bear cellulite.
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I read some crazy statistic recently that said something like McDonalds provides breakfast for 1 in 4 Americans in a daily basis. I had no idea that many people ate at McDonalds for breakfast!
 
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