McDonald's ex-CEO just revealed a terrifying reality for fast-food workers

[realibrad]

It would take some kind of paradigm shift. Software programming hasn't changed much since the advent of compilers and the C standard. You specify a very limited range of inputs and specify a limited range of outputs and there you have a software module. You create a bunch of software modules to implement an overall design supplied by a project engineer. All of the intelligence is with the engineers. None of it is with the computer. At it lowest level the computer is just a machine flipping the binary switches it was programmed to flip. It has no choice about what switches to flip, it must flip the switches it was programmed to switch. Even within the context of neural networks and fuzzy logic, this is true.

How would somebody go about programming a computer to think of a novel solution for global warming? It would be problematic in the extreme. A computer can never DISCOVER knowledge. That knowledge MUST be programmed into it. It of course can acquire data but that is not knowledge. Knowledge is passed from the programmer to computer via software and then used by the computer to deal with the data.

They are doing that very thing with AI now, or at least trying to. Giving a set of parameters to the AI and seeing if it can come up with a solution. I cant find it now, but there was a test where the AI was told of the parameters in a very simple system, given examples of mechanical motion, and told to come up with a design to move an object and it did. Very simple, but still getting closer.

 

[bshole]

They are doing that very thing with AI now, or at least trying to. Giving a set of parameters to the AI and seeing if it can come up with a solution. I cant find it now, but there was a test where the AI was told of the parameters in a very simple system, given examples of mechanical motion, and told to come up with a design to move an object and it did. Very simple, but still getting closer.

Please supply a link to this and I will look into it. If it did anything approaching real human intelligence there would be a Nobel prize in it. I have certainly never heard or seen anything that demonstrates machine intelligence changing fundamentally over the past few decades, it simply works faster and can now multi-task because of multicores.

 

[realibrad]

Please supply a link to this and I will look into it. If it did anything approaching real human intelligence there would be a Nobel prize in it. I have certainly never heard or seen anything that demonstrates machine intelligence changing fundamentally over the past few decades, it simply works faster and can now multi-task because of multicores.

If I can find it, I will PM you. Its not really thinking though. What they did was give the AI information and told it (through coding) to come up with a way to move something. They did not tell it directly what to design but gave it examples to sample from. So more of a grey area.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Someone has to build and maintain those though.

Yes, and companies will learn that they need to hire someone to maintain those robots, and yes he will probably make twice as much as any one of those 30-40 people he replaces. Eventually automation will catch up with him as well, and you will only need someone to maintain the robots that maintain the other robots, allowing the company to replace him with someone that makes twice as much as he makes, but replaces 20 of the robot maintenance people. This is how automation works, and this is not a new idea. We have been doing this since the start of the industrial revolution. Only, like every other technology, automation advancement has an exponential curve and we are approaching the vertical progression.

As an automated systems designer, I have reached the same conclusion myself. System design is actually far more complicated than the robotics itself. It is relatively easy to design the mechanical device that performs the task. It is also relatively easy to write the software and firmware that controls the robotic device. But the design of the system... the decision of what needs to be automated, how it can be automated, calculating the MTBF for any specific design, this has proven to be the most challenging aspect for me. I actually spend more time in the initial design phase of any project than I do actually working with the prototypes or testing/coding the production version. It is extremely difficult and challenging and the thought of any type of AI attempting this just makes me laugh.

But for each case you only really have to get it right once, then everyone can copy that one good system. We will eventually build that one good system. And I believe that you have a very narrow view of what AI is going to be. Eventually AI is going to be better than any human at doing any task. Eventually we are going to make AI's every bit as complex as human intelligence, and then it will help us improve on that. Once that happens it will start to iterate on itself at a speed that we can't even hope to match.

In humans we have to find those that are smart enough and driven enough to do research and then spend 20+ years training them. When we create a single AI capable of this we can just create a hundred billions copies of it and have an army of researchers following every possible avenue of inquiry.

Both. Look at Starbucks. Coffee making is already possible to automate, but you need people facing people.

As I've pointed out in other threads restaurants are already starting to automate. Many major chains are starting to cut down on waitstaff and replace them with table side kiosks. As they train the public to use these kiosks to do more they will be able to reduce waitstaff even more. Before long most restaurants waitstaff will be down to just a busboys and bar-backs to bring food to the table and clear it off.

 

[Svnla]

Speaking of McD, this is what you need if you want to open one - http://smallbusiness.chron.com/need-open-mcdonalds-10513.html

I also read an article recently how McD headquarter is requiring franchises to spend big money to upgrade their facilities (playground, LCD menu, new interior and exterior, etc.) or they franchise agreements will not be renew.

 

[Sonikku]

It's funny how McDonald's painted themselves as the kind of company where just anyone can start out as a burger flipper and one day rise through the ranks of a franchisee when you basically need to be a millionaire already before they'll even look at you.

 

[hal2kilo]

It's funny how McDonald's painted themselves as the kind of company where just anyone can start out as a burger flipper and one day rise through the ranks of a franchisee when you basically need to be a millionaire already before they'll even look at you.

Yea, but you could be in charge of Hamburger U someday.

 

[bshole]

Eventually we are going to make AI's every bit as complex as human intelligence, and then it will help us improve on that. Once that happens it will start to iterate on itself at a speed that we can't even hope to match.

That is an assertion based on what?

 

[Roflmouth]

I always laugh at these noncontributing clowns whining about the shit jobs their nonexistent skillsets consign them to. Like it's everyone else's fault that they're complete failures in life.

 

[nickqt]

It would take some kind of paradigm shift. Software programming hasn't changed much since the advent of compilers and the C standard. You specify a very limited range of inputs and specify a limited range of outputs and there you have a software module. You create a bunch of software modules to implement an overall design supplied by a project engineer. All of the intelligence is with the engineers. None of it is with the computer. At it lowest level the computer is just a machine flipping the binary switches it was programmed to flip. It has no choice about what switches to flip, it must flip the switches it was programmed to switch. Even within the context of neural networks and fuzzy logic, this is true.

How would somebody go about programming a computer to think of a novel solution for global warming? It would be problematic in the extreme. A computer can never DISCOVER knowledge. That knowledge MUST be programmed into it. It of course can acquire data but that is not knowledge. Knowledge is passed from the programmer to computer via software and then used by the computer to deal with the data.

 

[bshole]

Ah..... but we really are not a single step closer to real AI than we were 50 years ago.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/a-n...ts-will-never-have-consciousness-like-humans/

All digital computers are binary systems. This means that they store and process information exclusively in terms of two states, which are represented by different symbols—in this case 1s and 0s. It is an interesting fact of nature that binary digits can be used to represent most things; like numbers, letters, colors, shapes, images, and even audio with near perfect accuracy.

This two-symbol system is the foundational principle that all of digital computing is based upon. Everything a computer does involves manipulating two symbols in some way. As such, they can be thought of as a practical type of Turing machine—an abstract, hypothetical machine that computes by manipulating symbols.

A Turing machine’s operations are said to be “syntactical”, meaning they only recognize symbols and not the meaning of those symbols—i.e., their semantics. Even the word “recognize” is misleading because it implies a subjective experience, so perhaps it is better to simply say that computers are sensitive to symbols, whereas the brain is capable of semantic understanding.

It does not matter how fast the computer is, how much memory it has, or how complex and high-level the programming language. The Jeopardy and Chess playing champs Watson and Deep Blue fundamentally work the same as your microwave. Put simply, a strict symbol-processing machine can never be a symbol-understanding machine. The influential philosopher John Searle has cleverly depicted this fact by analogy in his famous and highly controversial “Chinese Room Argument”, which has been convincing minds that “syntax is not sufficient for semantics” since it was published in 1980. And although some esoteric rebuttals have been put forth (the most common being the “Systems Reply”), none successfully bridge the gap between syntax and semantics. But even if one is not fully convinced based on the Chinese Room Argument alone, it does not change the fact that Turing machines are symbol manipulating machines and not thinking machines, a position taken by the great physicist Richard Feynman over a decade earlier.

Feynman described the computer as “A glorified, high-class, very fast but stupid filing system,” managed by an infinitely stupid file clerk (the central processing unit) who blindly follows instructions (the software program). Here the clerk has no concept of anything—not even single letters or numbers. In a famous lecture on computer heuristics, Feynman expressed his grave doubts regarding the possibility of truly intelligent machines, stating that, “Nobody knows what we do or how to define a series of steps which correspond to something abstract like thinking.”

 

[SMOGZINN]

I always laugh at these noncontributing clowns whining about the shit jobs their nonexistent skillsets consign them to. Like it's everyone else's fault that they're complete failures in life.

Right, and we know that this attitude worked out great for the French Aristocracy.

 

[Maxima1]

lmao at this thread.

Why shouldn't the bottom 47% complain about low wages? There are lots of grossly overpaid jobs. Heck, a lot of the low end jobs aren't cushy. There are jobs that pay >=50K that I would do for the same pay. Many of the people who are content (military, police, generally conservative/libertarian slant) are hypocrites because they don't want compensation for their jobs to be decided by supply and demand, but everyone else has to suck it up.

http://army.qa.mrmclient.com/content/goarmy/benefits/total-compensation.html

"The Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that the average active duty service member receives an Army benefits and pay compensation package worth $99,000."

*Since as enlisted, you can still get ~$2mil retirement after only 20 yrs. You can sit and do nothing afterwards and still beat a lot of people while only having done pharm tech, data analysis, dorm managing, etc. while you were in service.

The median for police officers here in CA is over $100K, even quite high for campus or resource officers. Add in pensions and it gets more ridiculous. Not to mention, police departments have an enormous amount of applicants (sometimes tens of thousands) Don't bother mentioning risk. Even a taxi cab driver is generally as risky as being a cop. Half of all cop deaths are traffic accidents. The private sector generally pays a low differential for riskiness, and it can sometimes even be negative.

The median for teachers here is ~80K or so with a lot less hours than a private sector schlub and not even necessarily intellectually stimulating (e.g. Spanish, middle/elementary school, history, art, PE). Add in pension and it gets even more ridiculous.

Many of those jobs also have powerful special interests. For example, college campus is largely obsolete. You can have the best lecture videos taped and spread to everyone. In SK, there's a rockstar teacher who teaches over 1 million in English. Of course, since certain people in society have more power, they can hold onto the gravy train. Another example is the prison industrial complex. Get rid of prosecuting for marijuana and lots of cops would drop like flies. It's a lot like accounting where overly complicated laws result in a misallocation of human capital because they're becoming tax accountants instead of chemists, engineers, etc.

Another issue with people getting jobs is the training pipeline and how accessible it is. Many qualified people get turned away from nursing because colleges refuse to spend money to increase the amount of seats available. An RN in CA starts at $85k in some hospitals.

 

[Maxima1]

I always laugh at these noncontributing clowns whining about the shit jobs their nonexistent skillsets consign them to. Like it's everyone else's fault that they're complete failures in life.

The median income in the US is only ~$30K. Some sectors have gotten really bad. A BS in chemistry will likely get you a temp agency job making $12 an hour. They'll insult your intelligence with that kind of offer even with an MS. The best sector is public with all the credential creep and better bargaining positioning with government, and the public sector can extract rents from tax payers solely from the basis of different amenities across states. A McDolands worker can't force anyone to buy a burger.

You can raise it to whatever you want. Either you will have the skills needed to create value to justify hiring you at that wage or you won't.

Just because you make money, doesn't mean you added that much value, and it could be because of inefficient allocation (poor pipeline/artificial shortage/credential creep -- see RNs above for example). Look at the finance sector. China proves you don't need a big finance sector. We have a lot of jobs that amount to little more than rent seeking behavior.

 

[OutHouse]

I always laugh at these noncontributing clowns whining about the shit jobs their nonexistent skillsets consign them to. Like it's everyone else's fault that they're complete failures in life.

Wow what a what an elitest dick. They should be killed too right?

 

[theeedude]

As I've pointed out in other threads restaurants are already starting to automate. Many major chains are starting to cut down on waitstaff and replace them with table side kiosks. As they train the public to use these kiosks to do more they will be able to reduce waitstaff even more. Before long most restaurants waitstaff will be down to just a busboys and bar-backs to bring food to the table and clear it off.

Which chains have table side kiosks? When people go to restaurants, they are paying for human service, not to have a computer screen for ordering. Otherwise, they could just order takeout and eat it in front of their computer.

 

[Maxima1]

The problem isn't a $15 minimum wage. The problem is having a minimum wage regardless of the dollar amount. It's a stupid concept that doesn't actually help.

Of course, it helps. Don't be obtuse. What's stupid is someone working in those jobs at $7 an hour while a cop is getting over several times as much without even including the pension. You can replace "cop" with many others, especially in the public sector such as a PE teacher. Many high school grads can jump in and do that job easily despite the PE credentials needed, and furthermore, it's a cush job with good pay and benefits. Why would I complain about McDonalds worker making $15 and no benefits to a PE teacher making $45 or more per hour and benefits. It's a joke.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Which chains have table side kiosks? When people go to restaurants, they are paying for human service, not to have a computer screen for ordering. Otherwise, they could just order takeout and eat it in front of their computer.

Chili's, Applebee's, UNO Pizzeria, Ruby Tuesday, Red Robin are all using them that I know of. I'm sure that there are others. I don't go to many chain restaurants as there are too many great independent restaurants near me.

 

[OutHouse]

Which chains have table side kiosks? When people go to restaurants, they are paying for human service, not to have a computer screen for ordering. Otherwise, they could just order takeout and eat it in front of their computer.

Chilis

 

[theeedude]

Chili's, Applebee's, UNO Pizzeria, Ruby Tuesday, Red Robin are all using them that I know of. I'm sure that there are others. I don't go to many chain restaurants as there are too many great independent restaurants near me.

I don't go to these places either, but nothing communicates "I am a big mediocre corporate chain restaurant" like having kiosks for ordering.
Do any of the restaurants you consider "great" use kiosks?

 

[MongGrel]

It's funny how McDonald's painted themselves as the kind of company where just anyone can start out as a burger flipper and one day rise through the ranks of a franchisee when you basically need to be a millionaire already before they'll even look at you.

That just hasn't happened in decades. If it ever did.

One place I used to work at the owners son had a frat brother at UF and they owned about 7 or 8 McDs, he married a girl whose family owned at least a half dozen.

Was like a McD's merger I guess in the area, they went over and rented out a whole floor for family and guests for the weekend at the Breakers in Palm Beach for the wedding. They basically are running a small McD's empire these days.

Buying one for a franchise isn't cheap buy a long shot, you have to have money to make money as the old saying goes.

 

[Maxima1]

I'd like to add, if you're poor, you'll also pay tens of thousands more for less "house" during your lifetime, since renting generally is worse, especially in the long-run. It's a big reason why so many low-income earners in CA are moving to places like Texas, since many low-skill jobs generally don't get gains regardless of how much it cost to live in a given state.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I don't go to these places either, but nothing communicates "I am a big mediocre corporate chain restaurant" like having kiosks for ordering.
Do any of the restaurants you consider "great" use kiosks?

No, but most of the restaurants I consider great have like 3 waitstaff and 2 cooks. It does not take much math to figure out that Applebee's hires a lot more people than a mom and pop place who has maybe 3-4 employees. There is also a tendency that The Rib Shack which has some of the best food in Texas will probably not still be around in 3 years, while Chili's will still be around in some form or another a hundred years from now.

Someone out there still makes horse drawn carts.

 

[Cozarkian]

Yes, and companies will learn that they need to hire someone to maintain those robots, and yes he will probably make twice as much as any one of those 30-40 people he replaces.

More likely an entrepreneur will open a fast food robot arm service company, hire a few techs and get contracts with multiple franchises. This will allow fast food joints to share the cost of robot techs and make techs more efficient because when one store's robots are running properly, the tech can work at a different store rather than twiddling thumbs waiting for something to break.

 

[theeedude]

No, but most of the restaurants I consider great have like 3 waitstaff and 2 cooks. It does not take much math to figure out that Applebee's hires a lot more people than a mom and pop place who has maybe 3-4 employees. There is also a tendency that The Rib Shack which has some of the best food in Texas will probably not still be around in 3 years, while Chili's will still be around in some form or another a hundred years from now.
Someone out there still makes horse drawn carts.

Those big chains try their best to appear local and folksy, kiosks for ordering would break that. Also, are people going to tip a computer kiosk as much as a real waiter? I certainly wouldn't. Maybe 5% for the bus boy.