McDonald's ex-CEO just revealed a terrifying reality for fast-food workers

[PokerGuy]

while i don't think you can replace the entire store you can replace a good majority of it.

Exactly. None of us have a crystal ball, but I'm guessing in the not-too-distant future, fast food joints will be almost completely automated, with maybe one or two people there to handle issues/cleanup or other unanticipated problems. Other than that, you won't need much of a crew to run the fast food restaurant.

Not overnight, but we're heading in that direction.

 

[Svnla]

I don't think the push for absurdly higher wages for menial work is not the driving factor for automation, but it's certainly going to help push it along faster. That much is not in doubt.

To the OP, Svnla, what makes you think this is a "terrifying" reality for many of those impacted? They'll simply be on the government dole for free stuff instead of having to work for their money. That prospect is terrifying to those with initiative, but not to those without.....

Read the article again. The title of the thread is from the article and the author is Kate Taylor, not me.

What I am saying is those minimum wage earners will be in for a big shock (first sentence of the OP) if they expect to work full time with $15/hour or more at fast food joints.

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly. None of us have a crystal ball, but I'm guessing in the not-too-distant future, fast food joints will be almost completely automated, with maybe one or two people there to handle issues/cleanup or other unanticipated problems. Other than that, you won't need much of a crew to run the fast food restaurant.

Not overnight, but we're heading in that direction.

I don't see why this is a problem. Automation is coming for this industry and plenty of others and that's a good problem to have. If we can do something more efficiently by using robots instead of people we should because as I've said before the ultimate goal of technology is 100% unemployment.

I think we may have to restructure how we organize society in the future because of this (hello, basic income!) but that's okay!

 

[Jaskalas]

In case anyone missed it last time it was linked.

Humans Need Not Apply

 

[theeedude]

when it comes to simple repetitive behavior then robotic arms are cheaper. Still there is a maintenance cost involved as well as the skilled knowledge for keeping them up, which those more skilled jobs cost more to fulfill. Lucky it doesn't take as many people to service robot arms as it would have to pay people to put fries into a cup.

the other thing to remember, is that most people working there aren't just putting fries into a cup all day. They are cleaning, cooking, moving inventory, and interacting with customers. A robotic arm is just doing 1 job only.

Good, I don't see a problem with robotic arms replacing humans in fast food preparation. There is nothing desirable about having people doing repetitive tasks that a robot could do all day. We aren't meant to be biological robot alternatives. What a minimum wage says is go to school until you reach a certain level of productivity.

 

[Jaskalas]

What a minimum wage says is go to school until you reach a certain level of productivity.

A message that falls of deaf ears when that path is closed to so many.

 

[Pulsar]

Good, I don't see a problem with robotic arms replacing humans in fast food preparation. There is nothing desirable about having people doing repetitive tasks that a robot could do all day. We aren't meant to be biological robot alternatives. What a minimum wage says is go to school until you reach a certain level of productivity.

It's not even THAT simple.

For instance - you would think that putting a bolt in a hole and running it down would be a perfect task for a robot.

But it's actually kind of a bitch. Feeding the bolt correct, in the right orientation, and verifying you have the RIGHT bolt is just the first step. Making sure the socket engages, that you don't crossthread, and that you don't push so hard you roll the leading thread over so it can't run down is just another. The next is verifying you got the bolt all the way down. You can monitor torque - but what if the whole isn't threaded to full depth? You can monitor rotations... but what if the top threads are too loose so they don't trigger a torque threshold to start counting? What if there is moisture in the hole from a washer process that causes backpressure so you get premature torque readings? What if the threads on the bolts are damaged?

I could literally go on ALL day about how hard these tasks really are. Making hamburgers with a robotic system isn't easy. And I guarantee that when your automatic burger baking system fucks up, all those customers waiting in your drive through line are going to be mighty peeved.

 

[theeedude]

It's not even THAT simple.

For instance - you would think that putting a bolt in a hole and running it down would be a perfect task for a robot.

But it's actually kind of a bitch. Feeding the bolt correct, in the right orientation, and verifying you have the RIGHT bolt is just the first step. Making sure the socket engages, that you don't crossthread, and that you don't push so hard you roll the leading thread over so it can't run down is just another. The next is verifying you got the bolt all the way down. You can monitor torque - but what if the whole isn't threaded to full depth? You can monitor rotations... but what if the top threads are too loose so they don't trigger a torque threshold to start counting? What if there is moisture in the hole from a washer process that causes backpressure so you get premature torque readings? What if the threads on the bolts are damaged?

I could literally go on ALL day about how hard these tasks really are. Making hamburgers with a robotic system isn't easy. And I guarantee that when your automatic burger baking system fucks up, all those customers waiting in your drive through line are going to be mighty peeved.

These are hard tasks to program, but can be machine learned with deep neural nets. You just need to tell the robot when it's doing it right and when it's doing it wrong, and over time, it will learn by itself to do it wrong less and less.
http://www.popsci.com/googles-robots-are-learning-hand-eye-coordination-with-artificial-intelligence

 

[theeedude]

A message that falls of deaf ears when that path is closed to so many.

Who is it closed to and why?

 

[DigDog]

stop eating macdonalds?

 

[Sonikku]

Be warned, minimum wagers. You are obsolete.

 

[zinfamous]

wouldn't they have replaced those workers with robot arms anyway?

Hilariously stupid to tie this to a reaction to increasing minimum wage.

 

[dullard]

Like others have said, if a robot is a good idea, it is a good idea regardless of token changes in the minimum wage.

It is interesting comparing the comment in the OP's post with McDonald's wage hike last year leading to more profit, better employee retention, and better customer satisfaction this year.

 

[purbeast0]

Be warned, minimum wagers. You are obsolete.

lol what is that from?

 

[Genx87]

Cant say I blame these companies for looking at more efficient workers. Last night was a great example. Hit up Five guys, order, walk towards the waiting counter and my left ear drum nearly explodes. This girl who is an employee slams down some box because some guy she likes informed her he is going out with another girl. They are arguing for 5 mins in front of the whole store. Then one of the fry cooks looks like he is stoned or retarded, or both. He manages to unlatch the rack where they rest the fry basket and it falls into the tub. I give him credit for not immediately sticking his hand into the 350 degree oil. He fishes it out then tries to put it back together using a towel. It is clearly hot and he has to keep putting it down. His idiot friend walks up and I think dont touch it. Sure enough he touches it which burns his finger tips. For the next 3 mins these two morons try to figure out how to get a 300 degree piece of metal back in place. That is a lot of liability going on in a single 10 min time frame.

 

[JSt0rm]

This has been going on since 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyrav_9Pbsc

Disclaimer: I spent more time trying to see down the video girl's blouse than I did looking at the pizza.

Now you forced me to click the link. :wub:

 

[PokerGuy]

wouldn't they have replaced those workers with robot arms anyway?

Hilariously stupid to tie this to a reaction to increasing minimum wage.

What's hilariously stupid is that you think a change in cost per hour of at least 50% wouldn't be a catalyst for re-evaluating the value proposition of automating more processes. Perhaps at $8 per hour they looked at it as something they should investigate and evaluate, whereas for $15 per hour, it's something they actively pursue.

Like others have said, if a robot is a good idea, it is a good idea regardless of token changes in the minimum wage.

50% increase in the cost of labor is not a "token change". It's a significant enough change to warrant further investigation into alternatives.

It's just like oil. At $50 per barrel, alternative fuels are just not that interesting, but when the price gets to $130 per barrel, you'd better believe there's a lot of interest in speeding up the move towards other energy sources. Regardless of price per barrel it's something that will be done in the long term, but the price sets the pace.

It is interesting comparing the comment in the OP's post with McDonald's wage hike last year leading to more profit, better employee retention, and better customer satisfaction this year.

Do you have data supporting causality for those things? Did profit go up because of a wage hike, or was it one of the factors, or was it not a factor at all and it was correlation rather than causation?

 

[PokerGuy]

Read the article again. The title of the thread is from the article and the author is Kate Taylor, not me.

What I am saying is those minimum wage earners will be in for a big shock (first sentence of the OP) if they expect to work full time with $15/hour or more at fast food joints.

Sorry, I didn't mean to phrase it in such a way as to say you personally said it, I meant in general. I know it's from the article. Sometimes text is not a particularly good medium

 

[Moonbeam]

This is why the move to a global basic income with people working\studying as they see fit is the future.
"work" is meaningless when it is used ONLY for production when automation can do it better. Mankind will have to figure out how to stay interested in life and how to better the community while robots do all the hard work.
American society will probably have a hard time adjusting because you seem to view work as something you HAVE to do to mean anything to yourself and to others, instead of a means to an end - a hobby, family, studies, arts...

Well, well, isn't that interesting.....

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't see why this is a problem. Automation is coming for this industry and plenty of others and that's a good problem to have. If we can do something more efficiently by using robots instead of people we should because as I've said before the ultimate goal of technology is 100% unemployment.

I think we may have to restructure how we organize society in the future because of this (hello, basic income!) but that's okay!

That's wonderful for a long term goal, but in the meantime, what do you do with all those who's labor simply isn't worth enough for them to sustain themselves? In the past, increased automation and increased productivity meant that jobs were eliminated and to a significant extent replaced with other ones. That's not usually true anymore, the jobs replacing the eliminated jobs are often not in the US --- that leads to high unemployment and other societal problems here.

I commented in the other thread about basic income, what's your take on those hurdles?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

fuck me...

the world hates people on minimum wage...

but robots have been painting cars for years... he makes a valid point.

These are business, not charities. Of course they're going to look for the most cost-effective way of getting things done. There's always a risk in demanding a raise, if you're replaceable you'll be replaced.

 

[Sonikku]

50% increase in the cost of labor is not a "token change". It's a significant enough change to warrant further investigation into alternatives.

Maybe we shouldn't have fought it going up a nominal amount each year for years. As opposed to it being this huge build up all at once. When rent people and utilities people and food vendors all agree they deserve more money for delivering the same exact product one year to the next it kind of sucks for those on $7.25 an hour.

 

[Genx87]

Maybe we shouldn't have fought it going up a nominal amount each year for years. As opposed to it being this huge build up all at once. When rent people and utilities people and food vendors all agree they deserve more money for delivering the same exact product one year to the next it kind of sucks for those on $7.25 an hour.

These jobs are not supposed to be living wage jobs. Under 2% of the workforce in the United States works at min wage. The majority of those people are servers working for tips. Even the vast majority of FF workers made more than min wage.

 

[Moonbeam]

Gosh, with robotic labor and AI level resource management and sustainable planning, maybe the fear of failure in competition will disappear and the human mind will be free of the CBD. In a socialist system where everybody counts I might be able to get behind the idea of thinking about what is best for my neighbor since I will also live next door. Everything I can do to make his life better will make mine better too.

I imagine a world where as a child I get to take a walk with other children in my school around the world, learning about the it as I go. Maybe when I get done with my walk around the world I'll pick my favorite place to live and try to make it even better. Maybe I'll buy a bowl for rice and watch the moon at night. Maybe I'll crack the language of crickets. What a world it would be if there were a way to express my love. In the mean time, go fuck yourselves.

 

[WHAMPOM]

fuck me...

the world hates people on minimum wage...

but robots have been painting cars for years... he makes a valid point.

That sure explains why the first new car I bought the paint blistered in the first year and the powder coat paint is peeling on my mower deck.
Now consider that a fry bagging robot arm will be a hundred times more complex then a paint gun on a robot arm.