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McClellan blames Bush for CIA leak deceit

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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: eits
fox: "QUICK!!! we need to vilify mcclellan asap!!!"
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Funny you mention that because before he stepped down you and your ilk did that very thing with him. I am sure now that he is selling his book the douchebags on the left will prop him up on a pedestal. Amazing how that works out.
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Let's get this straight.

McClellan repeated the statements that Rove was not involved, the president wanted to find out who was behind it, etc.

The democrats attacked him for quoting false statements and not doing better fact-checking.

After leaving McClellan admits the democrats were right, and he had been given bad info.

So rather than the obvious conclusion, that the democrats were right and McClellan corrected his mistake, GenX tries to spin this by equating republicans who demonize him for telling the truth now, with democrats who demonized him for lying then. I suspect GenX could teach the North Koreans a thing or two about being a True Believer in the Dear Leader.
 
I agree with GenX, it is amazing how all these guys get a conscience when they leave the administration and decide to write a book. The lefties would lead you to believe this is exclusive to the Bush admin. of course.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
I agree with GenX, it is amazing how all these guys get a conscience when they leave the administration and decide to write a book.
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Just maybe these people want to be able to look at themselves in the mirror and not feel ashamed.
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I think that McClellan was a genuinely good guy. You could see that he was as uncomfortable as all get out about having to stand in front of the press and lie to the American people on a repeated basis and it took its toll on him.

Now Ari Fleischer.....that was/is a man that can lie with the best of them. This is someone that I don't really have any respect for as a person but had tremendous respect for his professional ability to do his job (lie to the American people to push forward his president's agenda). He reminds me of James Carville only not as funny.
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I agree. McClellan always looked uncomfortable in the position. Fleischer is a natural.
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You gotta give it up for Tony though.

Rough paraphrase:

Press: "How does the administration feel that the Iraqi parliament is taking a month off?"

T. Snow "Do you know how hot it is in Iraq? Can't be expected to work under those conditions."

Yeah, good thing our soldiers don't have to, you know, walk around in the heat with a few score pounds of equipment or anything. Huge. Balls.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: eits
fox: "QUICK!!! we need to vilify mcclellan asap!!!"
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that because before he stepped down you and your ilk did that very thing with him. I am sure now that he is selling his book the douchebags on the left will prop him up on a pedestal. Amazing how that works out.
Click to expand...

I agree to the extent that Dems/Libs have been just as bad as Cons/Reps in terms of "bandwagoning" against people.

For the record, I am not sure whether "bandwagoning" is a real word.
 
Originally posted by: sirjonk
You gotta give it up for Tony though.

Rough paraphrase:

Press: "How does the administration feel that the Iraqi parliament is taking a month off?"

T. Snow "Do you know how hot it is in Iraq? Can't be expected to work under those conditions."

Yeah, good thing our soldiers don't have to, you know, walk around in the heat with a few score pounds of equipment or anything. Huge. Balls.
Click to expand...

Fair point, Jonks.

I must admit, I became very entertained with Bush's Press Secretary shuffle. There came a point, probably in the middle of McClellan's tenure, that everyone just sort of gave up listening. It's a telling sign when PR people continue to step down in quick succession of one another.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: eits
fox: "QUICK!!! we need to vilify mcclellan asap!!!"
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that because before he stepped down you and your ilk did that very thing with him. I am sure now that he is selling his book the douchebags on the left will prop him up on a pedestal. Amazing how that works out.
Click to expand...

Let's get this straight.

McClellan repeated the statements that Rove was not involved, the president wanted to find out who was behind it, etc.

The democrats attacked him for quoting false statements and not doing better fact-checking.

After leaving McClellan admits the democrats were right, and he had been given bad info.

So rather than the obvious conclusion, that the democrats were right and McClellan corrected his mistake, GenX tries to spin this by equating republicans who demonize him for telling the truth now, with democrats who demonized him for lying then. I suspect GenX could teach the North Koreans a thing or two about being a True Believer in the Dear Leader.
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exactly. thank you.
 
I can already tell you the right wing talking points...

Liberal media talking about this
McClellan is a traitor
Dems responsible for this witch hunt
Ok to lie when there is no underlying crime
Armitage did it.
Let's get back to trashing Hillary
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Just maybe these people want to be able to look at themselves in the mirror and not feel ashamed.
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Maybe these guys already can't look at themselves in the mirror, but they're trying to get ahead of the curve and avoid having to look at themselves in prison jammies with their new BF, Bubbah. 😛
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: alchemize
I agree with GenX, it is amazing how all these guys get a conscience when they leave the administration and decide to write a book.
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Just maybe these people want to be able to look at themselves in the mirror and not feel ashamed.
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Ha!
 
Originally posted by: teclis1023
Originally posted by: sirjonk
You gotta give it up for Tony though.

Rough paraphrase:

Press: "How does the administration feel that the Iraqi parliament is taking a month off?"

T. Snow "Do you know how hot it is in Iraq? Can't be expected to work under those conditions."

Yeah, good thing our soldiers don't have to, you know, walk around in the heat with a few score pounds of equipment or anything. Huge. Balls.
Click to expand...

Fair point, Jonks.

I must admit, I became very entertained with Bush's Press Secretary shuffle. There came a point, probably in the middle of McClellan's tenure, that everyone just sort of gave up listening. It's a telling sign when PR people continue to step down in quick succession of one another.
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Made me LOL 😀


I would want to naturally say that he wants people to buy his book...but the main issue is that SOOOO many ex Bush-men have done the same and damned him for one thing or another. Either everyone is using their book to deflect blame, or there really are problems with this admnistration...[not saying there aren't - but even more problems 😛\
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I always did find something bittersweet to like about Scotty McClennam. I maybe wanted to see someone who knew he was lying and somehow there was always that apparent refreshing amount of guilt not present with more professional polished liars like Tony Snow. And now Scotty goes to confession with a book seller at his side.

For every semi honest man showing signs of guilt twinges, there are many more who can lie with a totally straight face. GWB&co. hardly has a monopoly or any shortage.
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When I read this article earlier in the newspaper, I thought of you almost immediately and really expected you to jump on this hard with both feet, practically yelling "impeachment".

I'm almost dissapointed 😀

I wanna know more.

SM says two things; one being that GWB, Cheney, Card, Rove, & Libby were involved in misleading everyone, via SM. While he doesn't specify the manner they did this, I understand the charge.

Second thing he says is that Libby & Rove were involved in the leak. This needs some explaining, I don't understand how this occurred.

The "leak" is widely acknowledged to have come from Richard Armitage of the State Dept who has said he got Plame's name etc from a State Dept memo. He has further admitted an error and apologized, an unless he has lied his actions in this matter were in no way connected to Rove or Libby (or the WH etc).

How are Rove and Liby therefore connected to this leak?

Or, is there some other Plame leak that we are unaware of? Not likely, if only because a leak no one is aware of hardly qualifies as a leak.

No doubt more will be forthcoming.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I always did find something bittersweet to like about Scotty McClennam. I maybe wanted to see someone who knew he was lying and somehow there was always that apparent refreshing amount of guilt not present with more professional polished liars like Tony Snow. And now Scotty goes to confession with a book seller at his side.

For every semi honest man showing signs of guilt twinges, there are many more who can lie with a totally straight face. GWB&co. hardly has a monopoly or any shortage.
Click to expand...

When I read this article earlier in the newspaper, I thought of you almost immediately and really expected you to jump on this hard with both feet, practically yelling "impeachment".

I'm almost dissapointed 😀

I wanna know more.

SM says two things; one being that GWB, Cheney, Card, Rove, & Libby were involved in misleading everyone, via SM. While he doesn't specify the manner they did this, I understand the charge.

Second thing he says is that Libby & Rove were involved in the leak. This needs some explaining, I don't understand how this occurred.

The "leak" is widely acknowledged to have come from Richard Armitage of the State Dept who has said he got Plame's name etc from a State Dept memo. He has further admitted an error and apologized, an unless he has lied his actions in this matter were in no way connected to Rove or Libby (or the WH etc).

How are Rove and Liby therefore connected to this leak?

Or, is there some other Plame leak that we are unaware of? Not likely, if only because a leak no one is aware of hardly qualifies as a leak.

No doubt more will be forthcoming.

Fern
Click to expand...

Well, if we deal with this in the old Roman law manner of Cui Bono ..

We have the motive (speaking out against the fake Niger uranium claim damaging the case for war)

We have the perps (Admin officials who were determined to go to war at any cost, regardless of the truth or lies in their excuses)

We have the victims (the outed agent, and the populations of the coalition as well as Iraq)

It's pretty obvious 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I always did find something bittersweet to like about Scotty McClennam. I maybe wanted to see someone who knew he was lying and somehow there was always that apparent refreshing amount of guilt not present with more professional polished liars like Tony Snow. And now Scotty goes to confession with a book seller at his side.

For every semi honest man showing signs of guilt twinges, there are many more who can lie with a totally straight face. GWB&co. hardly has a monopoly or any shortage.
Click to expand...

When I read this article earlier in the newspaper, I thought of you almost immediately and really expected you to jump on this hard with both feet, practically yelling "impeachment".

I'm almost dissapointed 😀

I wanna know more.

SM says two things; one being that GWB, Cheney, Card, Rove, & Libby were involved in misleading everyone, via SM. While he doesn't specify the manner they did this, I understand the charge.

Second thing he says is that Libby & Rove were involved in the leak. This needs some explaining, I don't understand how this occurred.

The "leak" is widely acknowledged to have come from Richard Armitage of the State Dept who has said he got Plame's name etc from a State Dept memo. He has further admitted an error and apologized, an unless he has lied his actions in this matter were in no way connected to Rove or Libby (or the WH etc).

How are Rove and Liby therefore connected to this leak?

Or, is there some other Plame leak that we are unaware of? Not likely, if only because a leak no one is aware of hardly qualifies as a leak.

No doubt more will be forthcoming.

Fern
Click to expand...

It's confirmed Armitage was the first leaker to Novak; Rove and Libby were leaking the info independently of Armitage. Rove was the second, confirming source for Novak; Novak asked him about the info and Rove confirmed it. Rove had also leaked the info to Matt Cooper of Time, whose article came out a few days after Novak's.

It's all pretty easy to find with google. What gets complicated is the apparent two tracks between Armitage doing his own thing, and the conspiratorial Rove/Libby/Cheney et al.

But since the law is very narrow on this, while it's highly condemned, including by Bush, it's not criminal. They're trying to pretend that 'not convicted' means 'did nothing inappropriate'.

The administration strongly condemned the leak for a reason (when they thought the coverup of who had leaked would not be broken). They lied about their involvement.

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: eits
fox: "QUICK!!! we need to vilify mcclellan asap!!!"
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that because before he stepped down you and your ilk did that very thing with him. I am sure now that he is selling his book the douchebags on the left will prop him up on a pedestal. Amazing how that works out.
Click to expand...

More revisionist history from the right. Do you guys have NO long term memory at all?! The cries were of "good riddance you lying little shit." Guess, what? He was a lying little shit. Funny how that works out, eh?
 
So the BushBots pretty much want everyone to ignore this and not try to dig deeper, despite a former Bush insider finally telling us what we suspected all along. No wonder this country is Fucked Up Beyond Any Recognition
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I always did find something bittersweet to like about Scotty McClennam. I maybe wanted to see someone who knew he was lying and somehow there was always that apparent refreshing amount of guilt not present with more professional polished liars like Tony Snow. And now Scotty goes to confession with a book seller at his side.

For every semi honest man showing signs of guilt twinges, there are many more who can lie with a totally straight face. GWB&co. hardly has a monopoly or any shortage.
Click to expand...

When I read this article earlier in the newspaper, I thought of you almost immediately and really expected you to jump on this hard with both feet, practically yelling "impeachment".

I'm almost dissapointed 😀

I wanna know more.

SM says two things; one being that GWB, Cheney, Card, Rove, & Libby were involved in misleading everyone, via SM. While he doesn't specify the manner they did this, I understand the charge.

Second thing he says is that Libby & Rove were involved in the leak. This needs some explaining, I don't understand how this occurred.

The "leak" is widely acknowledged to have come from Richard Armitage of the State Dept who has said he got Plame's name etc from a State Dept memo. He has further admitted an error and apologized, an unless he has lied his actions in this matter were in no way connected to Rove or Libby (or the WH etc).

How are Rove and Liby therefore connected to this leak?

Or, is there some other Plame leak that we are unaware of? Not likely, if only because a leak no one is aware of hardly qualifies as a leak.

No doubt more will be forthcoming.

Fern
Click to expand...

It's confirmed Armitage was the first leaker to Novak; Rove and Libby were leaking the info independently of Armitage. Rove was the second, confirming source for Novak; Novak asked him about the info and Rove confirmed it. Rove had also leaked the info to Matt Cooper of Time, whose article came out a few days after Novak's.
Been too long so I'm forgetting, but didn't Cooper co-operate with Fitz? It was the female who refused and was jailed for a time. If Cooper co-opertaed, then Fitz knew about Rove and apparently found nothing illegal etc.

It's all pretty easy to find with google. What gets complicated is the apparent two tracks between Armitage doing his own thing, and the conspiratorial Rove/Libby/Cheney et al.

But since the law is very narrow on this, while it's highly condemned, including by Bush, it's not criminal. They're trying to pretend that 'not convicted' means 'did nothing inappropriate'.

The administration strongly condemned the leak for a reason (when they thought the coverup of who had leaked would not be broken). They lied about their involvement.
There was cover up of Armitage's leak. Fitz knew about it from get-go
Click to expand...
See bolded remarks above, and:

Well, the "leak" in question is Armitage's. You can't leak something but once.

If SM is referring to a parellel effort to leak by Rove & Libby (who just didn't get the job done quick enough and were beaten to it by Arnmitage), he sure has poorly articulated that.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
I agree with GenX, it is amazing how all these guys get a conscience when they leave the administration and decide to write a book. The lefties would lead you to believe this is exclusive to the Bush admin. of course.
Click to expand...

Why do you 'agree with GenX', who appears to have been implying McClellan is lying, rather than with the many others who actually made the point you say you agree with?

As for your 'they're all the same' nonsense, can you begin to back up the point by showing any previous administration with nearly the same level of tell-all exposes?

I don't think you can, with Nixon's being the closest.

Others had only the occasional such thing, such as David Stockman's criticism of Reagan's economic programs.
 
Originally posted by: Arkaign
We have the victims (the outed agent, and the populations of the coalition as well as Iraq)
Click to expand...

We have the victims - The citizens and the security of the of United States of America. The Bushwhackos committed a monumental breach of U.S. security. By outing Valerie Plame, they also brought every person and every organization she's contacted in her international travels to the attention of our real enemies. That's one more reason they should be charged with TREASON. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:
 
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I always did find something bittersweet to like about Scotty McClennam. I maybe wanted to see someone who knew he was lying and somehow there was always that apparent refreshing amount of guilt not present with more professional polished liars like Tony Snow. And now Scotty goes to confession with a book seller at his side.

For every semi honest man showing signs of guilt twinges, there are many more who can lie with a totally straight face. GWB&co. hardly has a monopoly or any shortage.
Click to expand...

When I read this article earlier in the newspaper, I thought of you almost immediately and really expected you to jump on this hard with both feet, practically yelling "impeachment".

I'm almost dissapointed 😀

I wanna know more.

SM says two things; one being that GWB, Cheney, Card, Rove, & Libby were involved in misleading everyone, via SM. While he doesn't specify the manner they did this, I understand the charge.

Second thing he says is that Libby & Rove were involved in the leak. This needs some explaining, I don't understand how this occurred.

The "leak" is widely acknowledged to have come from Richard Armitage of the State Dept who has said he got Plame's name etc from a State Dept memo. He has further admitted an error and apologized, an unless he has lied his actions in this matter were in no way connected to Rove or Libby (or the WH etc).

How are Rove and Liby therefore connected to this leak?

Or, is there some other Plame leak that we are unaware of? Not likely, if only because a leak no one is aware of hardly qualifies as a leak.

No doubt more will be forthcoming.

Fern
Click to expand...

It's confirmed Armitage was the first leaker to Novak; Rove and Libby were leaking the info independently of Armitage. Rove was the second, confirming source for Novak; Novak asked him about the info and Rove confirmed it. Rove had also leaked the info to Matt Cooper of Time, whose article came out a few days after Novak's.
Been too long so I'm forgetting, but didn't Cooper co-operate with Fitz? It was the female who refused and was jailed for a time. If Cooper co-opertaed, then Fitz knew about Rove and apparently found nothing illegal etc.

It's all pretty easy to find with google. What gets complicated is the apparent two tracks between Armitage doing his own thing, and the conspiratorial Rove/Libby/Cheney et al.

But since the law is very narrow on this, while it's highly condemned, including by Bush, it's not criminal. They're trying to pretend that 'not convicted' means 'did nothing inappropriate'.

The administration strongly condemned the leak for a reason (when they thought the coverup of who had leaked would not be broken). They lied about their involvement.
There was cover up of Armitage's leak. Fitz knew about it from get-go
Click to expand...
See bolded remarks above, and:

Well, the "leak" in question is Armitage's. You can't leak something but once.

If SM is referring to a parellel effort to leak by Rove & Libby (who just didn't get the job done quick enough and were beaten to it by Arnmitage), he sure has poorly articulated that.

Fern
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Fitz did learn about Rove, and initially began criminal perjury proceedings against Rove.

*Again*, and please, do read it this time, the issue is not only criminal behavior; as I said, Bush himself strongly condemned anyone 'involved' in the leaking, period, when he thought that the coverup would work. That wasn't just based on crimes, it was based on what he said, the harm the outing did.

The point is the harm that Rove and others did; and the fact that they lied about what they did.

Yes, there was also some cover-up of Armitage's leak. I don't see how SM 'poorly articulated that'; you can leak more than once, they were leaking in parallel.

Novak's column just appeared a few days before Cooper's. We're not talking about Rove and Libby leaking after Novak's column was published, bue before.
 
Here's another interesting bit, an excerpt from an article today by Joe Conason in Salon:

Not only did Cheney oversee the activities of his chief of staff, but he actually ordered McClellan to "clear" Libby in a press briefing on the case. A note in Cheney's own handwriting, explaining why he insisted that the White House press staff should defend Libby just as vigorously as Rove, was introduced as an exhibit at trial.

And that note, echoed in the excerpt from McClellan's book, implicated Bush in the coverup.

Cheney's furious scribbling said, "not going to protect one staffer + sacrifice the guy this Pres. asked to stick his head in the meat grinder because of the incompetence of others." The allusion to "incompetence" was a nasty dig at Rove, whom the vice president evidently blamed for the clumsy execution of their conspiracy. Though Cheney had crossed out the words "this Pres." and replaced them with the phrase "that was," his reference to Bush was both legible and incriminating.

What did Cheney mean when he wrote those words? Why did he write that "this Pres." had asked Libby to "stick his head in the meat grinder"? What did Bush know about the extent of the vice president's involvement? When did he discover what Cheney, Libby, Rove and Fleischer had done? Or was he in on the scheme from the beginning?
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Originally posted by: Craig234
Your question whether to be 'guilty without guilt' is the wrong question for limiting the issue to criminal guilt - the question is whether they're guilg of doing wrong, not just of a crime.

The answer to that is clear, but your partisanship blinds you to the obvious yet again, so you are hear defending the indefensible, again.
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They are guilty of covering their own asses? You call it indefensible, but everyone does it. I understand it is red meat for you to chew on, just as Republicans chewed on Bill Clinton, but that makes this whole thing appear to be NOTHING more than partisanship.

Screaming traitor in chief and beating our chests for how horrible it is, is a mockery.
 
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