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McCain's Spiritual Advisor is a Whackadoodle Too.

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jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Every single attempt to equate any religious figure associated with McCain to the Obama/Wright 20 year brotherhood (brought him to christ, married him, baptised his kids, book named after his speech) is utterly doomed to failure, and all it does is perpetuate Wright's name in the news and remind people where Obama has been going to church for 2 decades. So by all means, keep bringing it up.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Genx87 said:

And endorsement is not the same as the Obama\Wright relationship.
Of course it isn't. While McCain actively sought out , cultivated and whole heartedly embraced this America hating preacher on stage. While the other, Obama never approached Wright, the other America hating preacher for his political endorsment.

But one is only "worse" than another to the 20 % staunchly partison GOP'ers who would never have voted for Obama anyway.

For the 20% or so of Americans suffering from irony poor blood...

The funny thing is that the loonies of the Right would read this on the air as a legitimately serious tirade against those Liberals.

Recipe:

"Just add 1 blowhard, 2 scoops of fake umbrage, 1 cap of Cognitive Dissonance. Stir until boiling. Sprinkle on a few rib tickling misquotes. Half bake, then self serve."



 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
shrumpage said:

Is it America hating to say America has been judged?

Or to curse America by saying God damn American?
Oh Please, your narritive rings hollow, in particular to me. I've already made perfectly clear that Wright is a America hating preacher.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
I think the bigger problem is the fact that liberals see Christians say things like "wage war" and "eradicate false religions" and actually think they are referring to violence. Parsley makes no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It shows just how little libarals actually know about these types of discussions that Christians like Parsley bring up.
Aren't you the one of the same people that saw Ahmadinejad's remark's about "wipe Israel off the face of the map" and automatically assumed that he meant via violence?

Ahmadinajad made no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It just shows how little conservatives actually know about these types of discussions that non-Zionists like Ahmadinajad bring up.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Corbett
I think the bigger problem is the fact that liberals see Christians say things like "wage war" and "eradicate false religions" and actually think they are referring to violence. Parsley makes no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It shows just how little libarals actually know about these types of discussions that Christians like Parsley bring up.
Aren't you the one of the same people that saw Ahmadinejad's remark's about "wipe Israel off the face of the map" and automatically assumed that he meant via violence?

Ahmadinajad made no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It just shows how little conservatives actually know about these types of discussions that non-Zionists like Ahmadinajad bring up.
I'm going to wipe you and your entire family off the map. What? I didn't say by violence!
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
I think the bigger problem is the fact that liberals see Christians say things like "wage war" and "eradicate false religions" and actually think they are referring to violence. Parsley makes no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It shows just how little libarals actually know about these types of discussions that Christians like Parsley bring up.
Yes because of the "EVAL LIBURALS"...

Evangelical Christians believe that one day soon Jesus will return to earth, pull a gleaming, silver sword out of his throat and proceed to slaughter approximately 2.5 billion people who are contrary to the Evangelical faith, ya know all the 'liburals". That's the amount of blood it would take to fill the Jezreel Valley to a depth of 4 1/2 feet deep and create a 200 mile river of blood.

Those who would be saved amount to approximately a few hundred thousand good "conservitive Republicans". The heathens lucky enough to avoid immediate slaughter a lake of everlasting fire after being judged by Jesus perched upon a silver throne while interviewing those of questionable character, you know who they are...those dirty "liburals".

Evangelicals do not specify if Jesus uses a devine checklist or handles each case indivually. There is no mention of how pre-judgement people are handled who die of old age while waiting in line for Jesus to interview them. Unless they are on the "libural" checklist.

In fact, they are excited for the rapture to happen and pray for the day they sit in their white, silk robes cheering Jesus as he inflicts everlasting pain upon all the "liburals". Assuming that many of the victims of this genocide are American citizens, you know, all the "liburals", there is no question that evangelicals support the use of weapons of mass destruction being used against their fellow countrymen.

This is a radical personality change from the Jesus we know from the Bible. Why exactly Jesus turns into a blood-thristy psychopath is gotta be because of the "liburals"

People like Robertson, Hagee and those who blindly follow and enable them. To these people, "liburals", Democrats, progressives, etc. are, quite simply, not American. To be an American is to hold certain ideas, you know, the "conservitive Republican America hating preacher" idea's, even those not formally articulated.

Therefore, Katrina, 9-11, etc. are punishments brought on by "others" who are in league with the Anti-Christ, you know, the "liburals". While true "Americans" and keepers of the light, such as the conservitive Republican America hating follower themselves, selflessly attempt to hold evil at bay with their America hating prayers, screeds, and what not. So the true Americans are the rapture bound twenty percent crowd who are innocent while the rest of us "liburals" get what we deserve...


 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Corbett
I think the bigger problem is the fact that liberals see Christians say things like "wage war" and "eradicate false religions" and actually think they are referring to violence. Parsley makes no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It shows just how little libarals actually know about these types of discussions that Christians like Parsley bring up.
Aren't you the one of the same people that saw Ahmadinejad's remark's about "wipe Israel off the face of the map" and automatically assumed that he meant via violence?

Ahmadinajad made no mention of "genocide" or even "killing". It just shows how little conservatives actually know about these types of discussions that non-Zionists like Ahmadinajad bring up.
I'm going to wipe you and your entire family off the map. What? I didn't say by violence!
Great. You finally see the hypocrisy of the Radical Religious Right in this country. Now, go spread it on the mountain!
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,298
127
106
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Genx87 said:

And endorsement is not the same as the Obama\Wright relationship.
Of coarse it isn't. While McCain actively sought out , cultivated and whole heartedly embraced this America hating preacher on stage. While the other, Obama never approached Wright, the other America hating preacher for his political endorsment.

But one is only "worse" than another to the 20 % staunchly partison GOP'ers who would never have voted for Obama anyway.

For the 20% or so of Americans suffering from irony poor blood...

The funny thing is that the loonies of the Right would read this on the air as a legitimately serious tirade against those Liberals.

Recipe:

"Just add 1 blowhard, 2 scoops of fake umbrage, 1 cap of Cognitive Dissonance. Stir until boiling. Sprinkle on a few rib tickling misquotes. Half bake, then self serve."
yeah I think the Obama/Wright relationship can be described exactly as that...a relationship. which includes both good and bad, tolerance and acceptance. That is something I can relate to. The pastor at my church recently spoke out in support of a California State Constitutional Amendment to declare marriage as only between a man and a woman. My stomach still turns thinking about how such an influential church PASTOR could preach something that is so clearly against the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am still very upset about my pastors views on the subject, and even more upset that he used his pulpit to preach politics. But that doesn't turn me off on him, he is still a man with a lot of good things to say, and he is a man that has done incredible things with this church and in the community. So I can sympathize with the need to be accepting of a person (or Pastor) which includes all the good, and all the bad he/she has to offer the world. Tolerance.

McCains church history shows that he is pretty much a vanilla Christian. Nothing surprising. But McCain once stood against those Christian leaders that he is now pandering too, and is actively seeking their endorsement NOW as opposed to turning a cold shoulder to them years back. Very hypocritical imho and it certainly reinforces the idea that politics makes strange bed fellows. I don't want to knock the man for practicing politics, and the truth is I don't believe he likes the idea of pandering to the religious right too. I just wish the christian base wasn't as powerful as it is. I don't like the idea of using faith to further a political agenda, or to round up votes at the poll booth.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Originally posted by: gersson
Maybe someday ALL religion will be forgotten.
As long as their are questions about the universe that we can not answer there will be religion.
God is the answer to every question that science has yet to answer.

Where did we come from? God.
Where do we go when we die? God.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Genx87 said:

And endorsement is not the same as the Obama\Wright relationship.
Of course it isn't. While McCain actively sought out , cultivated and whole heartedly embraced this America hating preacher on stage. While the other, Obama never approached Wright, the other America hating preacher for his political endorsement.
ummm wrong on the bolded part.

The Trinity Church in Chicago is seen as the place to be for up and coming blacks. That is why Oprah started to attend the church herself.

Obama could have picked any church he wanted, but he picked the largest, best known and most influential church. That seems like a political decision as much as a religious one.

Furthermore, in 1982 Wright started a a church magazine that would eventually go national in 2005. According to a writer for the Weekly Standard Wright's message of radical politics is all over the magazine. Obama himself was on the cover once and did an interview for the magazine. If Obama wasn't trying to get the endorsement of Wright and his church then why was he doing a cover story for his magazine? The fact is that until Obama decided to go national and run for President having Wright's church on his side was a good thing. As long as he was a guy serving Chicago or the state of Illinois having someone like Wright on his side was a good thing.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,298
127
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Genx87 said:

And endorsement is not the same as the Obama\Wright relationship.
Of course it isn't. While McCain actively sought out , cultivated and whole heartedly embraced this America hating preacher on stage. While the other, Obama never approached Wright, the other America hating preacher for his political endorsement.
ummm wrong on the bolded part.

The Trinity Church in Chicago is seen as the place to be for up and coming blacks. That is why Oprah started to attend the church herself.

Obama could have picked any church he wanted, but he picked the largest, best known and most influential church. That seems like a political decision as much as a religious one.

Furthermore, in 1982 Wright started a a church magazine that would eventually go national in 2005. According to a writer for the Weekly Standard Wright's message of radical politics is all over the magazine. Obama himself was on the cover once and did an interview for the magazine. If Obama wasn't trying to get the endorsement of Wright and his church then why was he doing a cover story for his magazine? The fact is that until Obama decided to go national and run for President having Wright's church on his side was a good thing. As long as he was a guy serving Chicago or the state of Illinois having someone like Wright on his side was a good thing.
you are assuming Obama joined the church for political purposes.

as far as I know there are no facts to support this.

so it is an assumption right?

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
That is just a guess, as far as I know we have no idea as to why he joined that church.

But we do know that he stayed in it even after learning of the positions of Wright. Obama can sit there and pretend that he knew nothing about what Wright was preaching, but we would have to be awfully foolish to believe him. As I pointed out in my post above, Wright published a church magazine that included many of his radical beliefs Obama had to have picked up that magazine at least once and saw what Wright was preaching.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,298
127
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
That is just a guess, as far as I know we have no idea as to why he joined that church.

But we do know that he stayed in it even after learning of the positions of Wright. Obama can sit there and pretend that he knew nothing about what Wright was preaching, but we would have to be awfully foolish to believe him. As I pointed out in my post above, Wright published a church magazine that included many of his radical beliefs Obama had to have picked up that magazine at least once and saw what Wright was preaching.
OK so you are guessing.

thanks for that.

It's ok to guess motivation. here is my guess:

I guess that Obama joined the church because he is a man of faith. I don't think he was in politics at the time he joined the church but I could be wrong. First and foremost, I think Obama joined the church because he heard of good things from that church. I think that the magazine is first and foremost a magazine of christianity and faith. Unless it is a magazine of hate (which I doubt..but I could be wrong) I think Obama had every good intention of appearing in a magazine of which it's scope is generally about Christianity and the good works of the church.

I think politics played less of a role than Faith in his decision to join a very popular and active church.

There is my guess.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
ummm your guess was wrong
From the May 2006 issue
We need to educate our children to the reality of white supremacy.

We need to educate our children about the white supremacist's foundations of the educational system.

When the levees in Louisiana broke alligators, crocodiles and piranha swam freely through what used to be the streets of New Orleans. That is an analogy that we need to drum into the heads of our African American children (and indeed all children!).

In the flood waters of white supremacy .??.??. there are also crocodiles, alligators and piranha!

The policies with which we live now and against which our children will have to struggle in order to bring about "the beloved community," are policies shaped by predators.

We lay a foundation, deconstructing the household of white supremacy with tools that are not the master's tools. We lay the foundation with hope. We deconstruct the vicious and demonic ideology of white supremacy with hope. Our hope is not built on faith-based dollars, empty liberal promises or veiled hate-filled preachments of the so-called conservatives. Our hope is built on Him who came in the flesh to set us free.
Now tell me again how Obama had no clue that Wright has extremist political views.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Here is a link to a column by Wright pulled from the May 2006 issue.
One small quote
White supremacy controls the economic system in America,
the healthcare system in America and the educational
system in America. Hurricane Katrina has pulled the
blinders off of all Americans and shown us what white
supremacy means at its ugly core and what it has done to
the fabric of these ?still-yet-to-be-United States? (to use
Maya Angelou?s term). That is what I see when looking
back during the month of May.
BTW for some odd reason the Trumpet's web site was taken down in March... hmmm wonder why.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,137
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: gersson
Maybe someday ALL religion will be forgotten.
As long as their are questions about the universe that we can not answer there will be religion.
God is the answer to every question that science has yet to answer.

Where did we come from? God.
Where do we go when we die? God.
And then when science ultimately figures it out, we smack our heads wondering how we could have been such primative fscks for believing such a fairy tale.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,137
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Here is a link to a column by Wright pulled from the May 2006 issue.
One small quote
White supremacy controls the economic system in America,
the healthcare system in America and the educational
system in America. Hurricane Katrina has pulled the
blinders off of all Americans and shown us what white
supremacy means at its ugly core and what it has done to
the fabric of these ?still-yet-to-be-United States? (to use
Maya Angelou?s term). That is what I see when looking
back during the month of May.
BTW for some odd reason the Trumpet's web site was taken down in March... hmmm wonder why.
You should try a little harder to stay on topic ... which as you might notice, this thread is about McCain and his own wacky/extremist religious leader(s) and advisor(s). I know you like to engage in tit-for-tat politics (But, but, but ... the democrats! But, but, but, Reverend Wright! Rinse. Repeat.).

Ultimately, intelligent voters will realize that this is a net neutral game, in which both sides have wacky religious figures looming in the background. And, ultimately, they'll realize that religion is just a lame distraction, just like it always is.
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: shrumpage

Is it America hating to say America has been judged?

Or to curse America by saying God damn American?
"God damn America" was not a "curse". It was essentially the same as saying, "America has been Judged."
No. Saying God damn something is cursing.

 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
shrumpage said:

Is it America hating to say America has been judged?

Or to curse America by saying God damn American?
Oh Please, your narritive rings hollow, in particular to me. I've already made perfectly clear that Wright is a America hating preacher.
I was trying to make the clarification that there is a difference between cursing and declaring something has been judged - directed at BMW540I6speed.

Personally I am wary of preachers or spiritual leaders claim that God has judged this or that.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
While I believe that Wright was saying that God should Damn America in that quote I don't think it maters either way.

In fact I think people would be more accepting of him cursing America as opposed to saying God should Damn America.

The majority of Americans who view America as a place of justice and righteousness are going to not like the idea that America should be damned for its actions.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,298
127
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
ummm your guess was wrong
From the May 2006 issue
We need to educate our children to the reality of white supremacy.

We need to educate our children about the white supremacist's foundations of the educational system.

When the levees in Louisiana broke alligators, crocodiles and piranha swam freely through what used to be the streets of New Orleans. That is an analogy that we need to drum into the heads of our African American children (and indeed all children!).

In the flood waters of white supremacy .??.??. there are also crocodiles, alligators and piranha!

The policies with which we live now and against which our children will have to struggle in order to bring about "the beloved community," are policies shaped by predators.

We lay a foundation, deconstructing the household of white supremacy with tools that are not the master's tools. We lay the foundation with hope. We deconstruct the vicious and demonic ideology of white supremacy with hope. Our hope is not built on faith-based dollars, empty liberal promises or veiled hate-filled preachments of the so-called conservatives. Our hope is built on Him who came in the flesh to set us free.
Now tell me again how Obama had no clue that Wright has extremist political views.
I read the whole newsletter. Thanks for the link.


The rhetoric is extreme. I think the politics behind the rhetoric are actually more mainstream than you think. Do you understand his message? He is saying that desegregation is not the same as integration..something that alot of people still believe in today. Something that makes sense.

Whites, in a culture of white supremacy, however, did not
view us as equals and still do not view us as equals; so
nothing from our Black or African experience was ever
allowed at the table of ?integration,? much less invited or
asked to be brought to the table.


Now, he believes that white supremacy is behind the segregation of schools. Do you believe that?

Looking back, I saw very early on that many African
Americans meant assimilation and acculturation when they
used the word ?integration.? To integrate, however, does
not mean to assimilate or to acculturate!



Also, his definition of "white supremacy" he credits to a Dr. Fredrickson and a Dr Lewis Baldwin who conduct a comparative analysis of White South Africa and the US. I am condensing the text of the article here but generally Dr Wright, as a result of the study of Dr Baldwin and Dr Fredrickson, believes that the term White supremacy is more accurate in describing America than Racism. here is why:

Racism,? in Baldwin?s opinion, is too nebulous a term. It
is slippery and has many different meanings for many
different people. I have even heard misguided (and
ignorant) pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Tom DeLay
calling Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and other Black
people racists. I have heard the term ?Black racism? and I
have also heard the term ?reverse racism.?
The misuse of that term ignores the fact that Africans do
not control the military, the police, the legal structure or
any of the means to enforce their race prejudice. To try to
get misinformed whites and blacks to understand that fact is
a waste of time.


The term ?white supremacy,? however, is much more
accurate. White supremacy undergirds the thought, the
ideology, the theology, the sociology, the legal structure,
the educational system, the healthcare system, and the
entire reality of the United States of America and South
Africa!

White supremacy is not a legal problem. It is a spiritual
problem, a psychological problem and a moral problem.


White supremacy controls the economic system in America,
the healthcare system in America and the educational
system in America. Hurricane Katrina has pulled the
blinders off of all Americans and shown us what white
supremacy means at its ugly core and what it has done to
the fabric of these ?still-yet-to-be-United States? (to use
Maya Angelou?s term). That is what I see when looking
back during the month of May.



I should just link the whole article here.

finally I think this is the jest of his message:

We need to educate our children to the reality of white
supremacy. We need to educate our children as to the
difference between desegregation and equality, the
difference between the legal issues and the spiritual issues;
and the difference between access in this country as
opposed to acceptance in this country!


again. I read the whole thing. The rhetoric is incindiary...especially when he talks about Hurricane Katrina. But we have all heard of it before, this is not something that is very fringe. Hell i think even some Rap Artist (who was it? i forget his name) was on national television speaking of the same sentiments about how GWB hates black people.

The policies, with which we live now and against which our
children will have to struggle in order to bring about ?the
beloved community,? are policies shaped by predators.
Jesus taught us that white supremacy ? or the thinking that
any one race is superior to any other race ? is against the
Will of God, who only created one race, the human race!


We are on the verge of launching our African-centered
Christian school. The dream of that school, which we
articulated in 1979, was built on hope. That hope still lives.
That school has to have at its core an understanding and
assessment of white supremacy as we deconstruct that
reality to help our children become all that God created
them to be when God made them in God?s own image.

We teach with hope. It is the same hope which would not
let Adam Clayton Powell, Denmark Vesey, Alexander
Crummel, Harriet Tubman or Septima Clark give up. It is
the same hope which motivated Martin King, Rosa Parks,
Samuel DeWitt Proctor, Coretta Scott King, Harry
Belafonte and Mary Henderson Wright. I look forward
with hope.


The words underlined come from the same newsletter. To me it shows that even though his rhetoric is extreme, his message is still used to bring people together. And to teach children something that is beyond what Rev Wright considers to be institutionalized racism.

In this newsletter...you can equate "white supremacy" with "institutionalized racism"

his rhetoric is flamebait of the highest degree...Rev Wright would do well in P&N!! but his message is more mainstream than you guys want to admit.

Again, thanks for the link PJ.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,551
2
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
While I believe that Wright was saying that God should Damn America in that quote I don't think it maters either way.

In fact I think people would be more accepting of him cursing America as opposed to saying God should Damn America.

The majority of Americans who view America as a place of justice and righteousness are going to not like the idea that America should be damned for its actions.
I know, sometimes the truth hurts, especially when it's about something you hold so near and dear like the concept of the United States being a place of justice and righteousness when it's not always the case.

 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,298
127
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Here is a link to a column by Wright pulled from the May 2006 issue.
One small quote
White supremacy controls the economic system in America,
the healthcare system in America and the educational
system in America. Hurricane Katrina has pulled the
blinders off of all Americans and shown us what white
supremacy means at its ugly core and what it has done to
the fabric of these ?still-yet-to-be-United States? (to use
Maya Angelou?s term). That is what I see when looking
back during the month of May.
BTW for some odd reason the Trumpet's web site was taken down in March... hmmm wonder why.
hehe its funny how PJ and I can read the same newsletter and come out of it with very different opinions.

well not that different. I would be uncomfortable listening to this message coming from the pulpit. I believe Rev Wrights words are bitter.

But I disagree that the message is fringe or extreme. I understand that Rev Wright is equating "white supremacy" to "institutionalized racism." I read the newsletter and I understand how he makes the connection, having cited a comparative study between South Africa and the US. I understand that he wants to educate his children of this reality and to change it.

he says so in his newsletter.

I won't defend the rhetoric, because I think such words can also be a source of division in America. The message can be issued without the flamebait. But I do defend the message because i do believe there still exists institutionalised racism.
 

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