McCain Open Border Policy

[piasabird]

If you beleive that America should have an open border with Mexico then Maybe McCain is more liberal than any other Liberal Running. McCain has working for him a person with dual Mexican American Citizenship who has given speeches saying he believes in open borders and when thinking about Mexico and America that people should think about Mexico First!

This is who McCain has working for him???

http://americanchaos.wordpress...who-is-juan-hernandez/

Welcome to the United States of Mexico!

 

[FoBoT]

mccain has much documented support for open borders and amnesty, then he tries to call others flipfloppers
pot/kettle

 

[Pabster]

McCain is a dangerous man. He's a RINO. No question he supports open borders just like Hillary.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: piasabird

Welcome to the United States of Mexico!

That's funny because that is the actual name of the country.

Unido Estados de Mexico

 

[blackangst1]

I surely hope the US doesnt absorb Mexico (high chance in hell maybe). There are certain...how should I say...things available in Mexico that would go away if that should happen.

 

[Pyrokinetic]

I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

?The New Colossus? by Emma Lazarus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
?"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!"? cries she
With silent lips. ?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!?

I really dislike those who wish to yank away our doormat of hospitality. Maybe they don't speak English -- their kids probably will; maybe they might be on foodstamps for awhile -- maybe their kids will start a business or get a great education. Look at them for what they can become -- if we believe in them and more importantly believe in the transforming power that is the United States of America.

So you want to close off our borders? O ye of little faith.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

 

[Pyrokinetic]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

Closing off the border can be accomplished without ever digging a post hole. If "legal" is too restrictive, you force those who are desparate to become criminals. Is yearning to be free and have a future worthy of being labeled criminal? The real criminals are those who hide discrimination behind patriotism and nationalism.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

Closing off the border can be accomplished without ever digging a post hole. If "legal" is too restrictive, you force those who are desparate to become criminals. Is yearning to be free and have a future worthy of being labeled criminal? The real criminals are those who hide discrimination behind patriotism and nationalism.

Is freedom free?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

?The New Colossus? by Emma Lazarus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
?"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!"? cries she
With silent lips. ?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!?

I really dislike those who wish to yank away our doormat of hospitality. Maybe they don't speak English -- their kids probably will; maybe they might be on foodstamps for awhile -- maybe their kids will start a business or get a great education. Look at them for what they can become -- if we believe in them and more importantly believe in the transforming power that is the United States of America.

So you want to close off our borders? O ye of little faith.

I would support open borders completely if we didn't have the welfare state we do. If everyone who came to the US sank or swam based on their own choices and work ethic, I'd have no problem letting people pour in no matter where they're from and in any number. But between Section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, and all the other welfare programs we have it's simply too costly to allow anybody in. A welfare state with no border controls is doomed to fail.

 

[neodyn55]

To me, it seems like any immigration reform will have to some how address two crucial issues:

if there is "amnesty" of any form for illegals, does that mean everyone waiting for citizenship - the legal way - will also automatically qualify for this "amnesty"? anything else would be unfair.

How is USCIS, an organization that is grossly understaffed and overworked (speaking from personal experience) supposed to manage the legalization of 10 million+ people?

 

[maverick44]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

You know its funny, people who dont know jack shit about immigration or the immigration laws open their traps the most about this issue and make such statements. Dude get a book about immigration laws of this country.

The only way people can come in if they already have family here as citizens.

It doesnt matter if you are a foreign student here and want to stay because of have found a job.

It doesnt matter if you are highly educated, employable, speak perfect english and can either start a business or find work..

No, all that matters is your ability to jump the border, hopefully find an american and marry him/her or better else bring someone here a wife or a husband from home and make anchor babies -that way you can work in another country and still be able to collect american welfare.

If you have laws that criminalize immigration then you'll have criminals for immigrants

I would support open borders completely if we didn't have the welfare state we do. If everyone who came to the US sank or swam based on their own choices and work ethic, I'd have no problem letting people pour in no matter where they're from and in any number. But between Section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, and all the other welfare programs we have it's simply too costly to allow anybody in. A welfare state with no border controls is doomed to fail.

Only US citizens with valid social security numbers are allowed.. for welfare.

The only benefits illlegal immigrants is that their children are allowed to attend local schools which are subsidized.. they cant apply for financial aid for college or anything like that.

Even legal immigrants get dont get any benefits till they are us citizens. they have to pay taxes like everyone else and they still dont qualify for social security. Average time to get from a legal immigrant ( h-1, tn-1 visa) to a citizen is about 6-7 years.

So yeah, for legal immigrants its pretty much sink or swim except that if you swim some one else will collect the benefits of the wonderfully efficient programs you mentioned

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: maverick44

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

You know its funny, people who dont know jack shit about immigration or the immigration laws open their traps the most about this issue and make such statements. Dude get a book about immigration laws of this country.

The only way people can come in if they already have family here as citizens.

It doesnt matter if you are a foreign student here and want to stay because of have found a job.

It doesnt matter if you are highly educated, employable, speak perfect english and can either start a business or find work..

No, all that matters is your ability to jump the border, hopefully find an american and marry him/her or better else bring someone here a wife or a husband from home and make anchor babies -that way you can work in another country and still be able to collect american welfare.

If you have laws that criminalize immigration then you'll have criminals for immigrants

I would support open borders completely if we didn't have the welfare state we do. If everyone who came to the US sank or swam based on their own choices and work ethic, I'd have no problem letting people pour in no matter where they're from and in any number. But between Section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, and all the other welfare programs we have it's simply too costly to allow anybody in. A welfare state with no border controls is doomed to fail.

Only US citizens with valid social security numbers are allowed.. for welfare.

The only benefits illlegal immigrants is that their children are allowed to attend local schools which are subsidized.. they cant apply for financial aid for college or anything like that.

Even legal immigrants get dont get any benefits till they are us citizens. they have to pay taxes like everyone else and they still dont qualify for social security. Average time to get from a legal immigrant ( h-1, tn-1 visa) to a citizen is about 6-7 years.

So yeah, for legal immigrants its pretty much sink or swim except that if you swim some one else will collect the benefits of the wonderfully efficient programs you mentioned

Correction: its 3-5 years from a work visa to a "green" card (permanent residency) its another 5 years from there to citizenship.

Unless you're from Mexico, China, India or the Philippines.. then its 6-8 years to permanent residency.

Thats why any "amnesty" plan looks so unfair, from the legal immigrant POV. What's the point of all those years of waiting, all that money spent on legal expenses, etc? Worse, it seems that if enough people jump the line, then it's only a matter of time before the government legalizes you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses

Now it reads "No vacancy".

So you want to close off our borders? O ye of little faith.

It's a problem with volume. Who is transforming who? Tens of millions each decade will bring around tremendous adaptation of central/south American culture and values. You want them deciding the law we live by?

Go to California sometime, the land where I grew up is American no more. It?s as foreign to us as Darfur, and I respect it just as little.

 

[StageLeft]

Agree with bobber and others. I have seen piles of illegals crowd into apartments in high-quality school zones in Birmingham and proceed to dilute the quality of the schools due to funding problems; they pay one apartment worth of rent but have as many kids going to school that normally takes a million bucks in housing property taxes to cover, they get school-paid-for teachers who are bilingiual to cater to their language, they get medicaid. You cannot accept people recklessly and then pay for them at the same time, it's absolutely ridiculous. If you fall into this category you ARE a burden on the country you just moved to. No immigrant should be accepted by a country that in short order is paying for their basic needs, it's obscene.

 

[babylon5]

This is a racist policy. What about poor Indians, Africans, East Europeans? Bring them all over, more competition in cheap labors = we can lower cheap wages from $5 to 50 cents an hour.

If you're for open border, open it to the WORLD. Otherwise it's racism!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses

Now it reads "No vacancy".

So you want to close off our borders? O ye of little faith.

It's a problem with volume. Who is transforming who? Tens of millions each decade will bring around tremendous adaptation of central/south American culture and values. You want them deciding the law we live by?

Go to California sometime, the land where I grew up is American no more. It?s as foreign to us as Darfur, and I respect it just as little.

Writing from Southern California I have to tell everyone that this is hilariously false.

 

[Arkaign]

lol, ironic, if we 'merged' with Mexico, our manufacturing base would what .. double? For an 'industrialized' nation, we're actually pretty low on the totem pole for production of actual domestic manufactured products.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
lol, ironic, if we 'merged' with Mexico, our manufacturing base would what .. double? For an 'industrialized' nation, we're actually pretty low on the totem pole for production of actual domestic manufactured products.

That's a good thing. Industry causes pollution, maims and kills lots of workers (comparatively), and doesn't usually pey employees particularly well. The services based economy that we are changing to is far preferable to more industry.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Arkaign
lol, ironic, if we 'merged' with Mexico, our manufacturing base would what .. double? For an 'industrialized' nation, we're actually pretty low on the totem pole for production of actual domestic manufactured products.

That's a good thing. Industry causes pollution, maims and kills lots of workers (comparatively), and doesn't usually pey employees particularly well. The services based economy that we are changing to is far preferable to more industry.

Wrong. Industry *can* do all of those negative things. There are still tons of plants across our country producing things, that don't contribute in any serious way to pollution, that don't maim/kill their workers (it's far cheaper to have safer standards than to pay severely high lawsuits/judgments), and that provide a dependable income for the families of the employed individuals.

It's crucial to have a balance in any economy that has a chance at self-reliance. Of course we're always going to trade with the rest of the world, but with a falling dollar, it's much better to buy a product made in the US, have the $$ re-invested in our own economy, than sending a significant amount (or all of it) overseas or to Mexico/Canada.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: neodyn55
To me, it seems like any immigration reform will have to some how address two crucial issues:

if there is "amnesty" of any form for illegals, does that mean everyone waiting for citizenship - the legal way - will also automatically qualify for this "amnesty"? anything else would be unfair.

How is USCIS, an organization that is grossly understaffed and overworked (speaking from personal experience) supposed to manage the legalization of 10 million+ people?

This is an excellent post and only someone who works for USCIS or is/has recently dealt with immigration in the US would appreciate this. I was told by 'experts' in the field that the USCIS is funded by immigration fees. I don't know if that's true, I only know the fees are expensive. If there is going to be an amnesty I hope they are required to pay the same fees (or more for being illegal) and wait *behind* those who are already in process. My wife is a non-US citizen and the fees from legally immigrating to becoming a US citizen are nearly $4000 and the process takes well over 3 years.

 

[Cuda1447]

Why don't we just take over Mexico. We keep everyone where they are, we just throw some Democrats and Republicans in down there. Split them up into 12 randomly assigned states. Then they don't need to come up here. We are USA everywhere! Everyones happy!

 

[Pyrokinetic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I actually like the idea of an open border. If people want to come here, they should be able to come:

No problem. Just come legally.

Closing off the border can be accomplished without ever digging a post hole. If "legal" is too restrictive, you force those who are desparate to become criminals. Is yearning to be free and have a future worthy of being labeled criminal? The real criminals are those who hide discrimination behind patriotism and nationalism.

Is freedom free?

No, of course not. But are you going to be a greedy, selfish, me-first, uncharitable person who spits on the rest of the unfortunates demanding that they pony up? I was blessed to be born here, blessed to be able to work, blessed to have the priviledge to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. Jeez, what ass hoards his blessings, yelling "Mine! All mine! None for you!"? At such a point, my opinion is that such an ass has forgotten what being an American is all about. I liken such a person to the character in the Biblical parable of the unforgiving servant: he is forgiven an unpayable debt, yet afterward beats his fellow servant for a debt that is less than a day's wage. You being born here is a blessing you cannot put a price on nor ever truly repay, short of giving up your very life for your country. You think paying taxes gives you the right to refuse another citizenship? The arrogance of it makes me ill.

 

[SSSnail]

So, what I heard on the radio this morning driving into work was just lies?

"Hi, I'm John McCain and I approve of this message:

As president, I will build a border fence and work with governors from different states to ensure that this is accomplished. I'll hire more border guards, and deal with illegals the right and human ways. Immediately deport the 2+ million criminals; those that are already here, they'll go back to the end of the line, learn English and will earn their citizenship the right way (no freebies). We will penalize the companies that hired illegals, etc... and we have no tolerant for illegal activities.."

Maybe not verbatim, but that was the message.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
mccain has much documented support for open borders and amnesty, then he tries to call others flipfloppers
pot/kettle

That's why they call him McAmnesty.