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Mazdaspeed - turbo went out
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Early days of turbos in cars went something like this:
Oil-cooled turbos + iffy oils at the time = coked and dead turbos.
"We need to watercool turbos so they last longer."
Enter watercooling of turbos.
Oil formulas (including conventional) improve, turbos don't coke like they used to, watercooling unnecessary/not as necessary.
Some people are questioning the overheating and bent fins reason for this failure. I assume that's just the easier, non-techy way of saying the bearings went bad (possibly from the oil), which put play into the shaft, which then allowed the blades (fins) to hit the inside wall of the turbo and bend.
I'd be surprised if this was the result of that oil change instead of simply a defective turbo, but I guess we'll never know. Mazda blaming it on Firestone is good for the OP though since it might help cover him in the future if something oil-related happens to the engine.
I wouldn't worry much if at all about the engine, by the way, especially if you weren't ragged-edging it during that time.
Oil-cooled turbos + iffy oils at the time = coked and dead turbos.
"We need to watercool turbos so they last longer."
Enter watercooling of turbos.
Oil formulas (including conventional) improve, turbos don't coke like they used to, watercooling unnecessary/not as necessary.
Some people are questioning the overheating and bent fins reason for this failure. I assume that's just the easier, non-techy way of saying the bearings went bad (possibly from the oil), which put play into the shaft, which then allowed the blades (fins) to hit the inside wall of the turbo and bend.
I'd be surprised if this was the result of that oil change instead of simply a defective turbo, but I guess we'll never know. Mazda blaming it on Firestone is good for the OP though since it might help cover him in the future if something oil-related happens to the engine.
I wouldn't worry much if at all about the engine, by the way, especially if you weren't ragged-edging it during that time.
Jimzz
Diamond Member
I still think it was a factory defect if you have not had any other issues. Once the repair is done keep up with your gas mileage, engine temp, and any other running problems. If everything is within spec it was probably a defect, not anything you or the car did.
But sounds like the dealer is trying to put the blame on someone else as bad as they can. So CYA and keep any receipts for oil changes or any other maintaince you do.
OP - if you checked the oil and it was full you're probably fine.
It's worth noting that too thin of an oil could have caused turbo failure. If the oil viscosity was too low the turbocharger's bearings would not have developed the proper lubrication film. I'm not saying it did, just that it is possible.
More oil means longer change intervals. It makes a lot of sense for a car that is intended to be on the track too.
I think the MS3 is supposed to use 6.0 quarts, but I use a 5.3qt jug + 1qt bottle for oil changes and I never feel like keeping the extra 0.3quarts around in an already-opened oil container.
It's worth noting that too thin of an oil could have caused turbo failure. If the oil viscosity was too low the turbocharger's bearings would not have developed the proper lubrication film. I'm not saying it did, just that it is possible.
More oil means longer change intervals. It makes a lot of sense for a car that is intended to be on the track too.
I think the MS3 is supposed to use 6.0 quarts, but I use a 5.3qt jug + 1qt bottle for oil changes and I never feel like keeping the extra 0.3quarts around in an already-opened oil container.
SearchMaster
Diamond Member
*small* difference between a CRZ and a MS3 🙂
My Focus ST take 5.7 quarts. As has been mentioned here, the engine oil is also used in the turbo, and cars designed for the track usually have higher capacities. Unlike the MS3 (apparently), the ST specifies full synthetic or synthetic blend oil. It has a 10K interval though I pushed my comfort zone going almost 9K last time.
Hellotalkie
Golden Member
How do you like the ST? Surprisingly my car is worth more as a trade in than what I paid for it new.
Oil capacities are not always an even number of quarts because that is an absolutely meaningless and asinine engineering constraint.
🙂
phucheneh
Diamond Member
'Curled fins'? The eff? That's, like, what makes a turbine...a turbine.
Usually what happens is that the bearings go and the shaft gets excessive axial play. That results in oil consumption, loss of boost, and the like, and if it gets severe enough, the compressor wheel will start murder-grinding itself on the aluminum housing. Turbine side could do the same, but I think I've only ever seen damaged compressors.
Firestone uses recycled Kendall oil. Most places now carry both 5w20 bulk and 5w30 bulk. It's all marketed as 'synthetic blend.' Which I've always interpreted as 'sure, there's gotta be some synthetic in there; prove there isn't!'
If they were using synthetic, it would probably be coming from a bottle (although 0w20 in barrels is becoming a common sight). And it would be a $50-60 oil change.
If you check the oil yourself and have noted the correct level, it just means that the guy at Firestone was doing his job...they get the 4.4qt spec, charge you for a normal <5qt oil change, but the dude is decent enough to actually check the stick and keep adding until it's at the proper level.
Usually what happens is that the bearings go and the shaft gets excessive axial play. That results in oil consumption, loss of boost, and the like, and if it gets severe enough, the compressor wheel will start murder-grinding itself on the aluminum housing. Turbine side could do the same, but I think I've only ever seen damaged compressors.
Firestone uses recycled Kendall oil. Most places now carry both 5w20 bulk and 5w30 bulk. It's all marketed as 'synthetic blend.' Which I've always interpreted as 'sure, there's gotta be some synthetic in there; prove there isn't!'
If they were using synthetic, it would probably be coming from a bottle (although 0w20 in barrels is becoming a common sight). And it would be a $50-60 oil change.
If you check the oil yourself and have noted the correct level, it just means that the guy at Firestone was doing his job...they get the 4.4qt spec, charge you for a normal <5qt oil change, but the dude is decent enough to actually check the stick and keep adding until it's at the proper level.
Hellotalkie
Golden Member
Yes it was about a 60 dollar oil change and classified as synthetic not synthetic blend.
NutBucket
Lifer
5qt Wally World jug + 2 quarts from a Costco case. Fine by me!
Jimzz
Diamond Member
No it does not. Unless mazda did an oil analysis they do not even know what the shape of the oil was, let alone the viscosity. Since the turn around from looking at it to saying it was the oil was at best a day all they did was pull the turbo and say "uhhh could be the oil...". If they could prove it they would tell the OP to go after firestone and deny his claim. Since they have no proof, other than the OP has maintained his car per mazda spec, then they will repair it at their cost.
They were looking for a scapegoat. Since the OP got Syn oil even if it was 0w20 it would have still worked fine.
SearchMaster
Diamond Member
Still love my ST, almost a year in. I hate the never ending supply of brake dust 🙂, but I've read that vendors are now making pads that don't shed quite so much but are still very good. I didn't care for My Ford Touch system initially, but the latest update from August fixed most of the problems. The voice recognition is subpar and sometimes frustrating, and I wish there was just a tad more legroom and hatch space. All in all it's everything I bought it for originally.
sdifox
No Lifer
more oil reserve is better.
xSkyDrAx
Diamond Member
How's the brake wear on those since it uses the brakes to help with the understeer?
well that's what i mean, usually corp will look for any way to deny your claim and tell you to go pound sand, but they didn't even put up a fight really outside of asking for "receipts" for oil changes.
i know i'm pretty much screwed if i try to take my car in for warranty work @ mitsu. once i drove it off the lot that was pretty much it 🙂
In an MS3 the turbo is located downstream of the MAF. The IC core is in the way though. Would be worth shaking out if you see any missing chunks from the turbo.
Midwayman
Diamond Member
Mine is 8.5 qts, and it specifies full synthetic. Who can beat that?
SearchMaster
Diamond Member
Hmmmm....I can't say for sure. My car is about a year old and is approaching 15,000 miles, but I haven't had the wheels off in a few months to check (though I should rotate the tires soon). I wouldn't imagine it would be a significant difference. It only kicks in under hard cornering, which would engage the brakes many fewer times per day than their normal intended usage. Unless you track it of course, but still then normal braking will still comprise most of the brake usage.
Hellotalkie
Golden Member
Reason I asked was because a dealership was offering me a new 2013 ST3 w/ sunroof @ $25,325
I can trade in my Mazda for about the same price I bought it for last year (surprisingly).
The catch is, it's that tangerine scream orange/yellow color. Ehhhh
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