Mazda Taiki Concept car
- Thread starter Audiotherapy
- Start date
The RX-8 was technically the successor to the RX-7 (in name, at least). However, due to its underpowered N/A rotary (especially in torque, which the RX-8 lacked by some 60-100 ft lbs compared to various versions of the FD RX-7) and its softer suspension, rear seats, and third door (making the RX-8 some 250 lbs heavier), the RX-8 was thought of more as a GT car than the purer sports car that the RX-7 represented. The fact that the RX-8 was often beaten around the track by less powerful FF cars like the Civic and Integra Type R didn't help this notion, either.
About that concept car, though...the look is...interesting. Certainly won't be a hit with everyone, but some might like it. However, it's highly unlikely that the actual car (if it ever went into production) would look anything like that concept. The rear wheels would most likely be relocated and become an integral part of the chassis rather than hanging out in pods to either side of the car. It looks like the concept might return to the RX-7 roots and be a 2-seater, but unless some sort of forced induction is introduced the lack of torque in the Renesis engine would likely be the car's downfall.
this was already heavily discussed in the rx-7 forums. it probably wont be the next rx-7. the rx-8 was NOT the successor. the rx-8 is a family sedan powered by a rotary. if you look into mazda's history, they at one time had nothing but rotary powered cars including vans and trucks. just because it has a rotary engine, does not mean its the next rx-7. the rx-7 was a sports car. it may be designed to fit a rotary engine, but so was the next generation miata if you look into that as well.
SketchMaster
Diamond Member
- Feb 23, 2005
- 3,100
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Eh, I'm just not an enormous fan of the rotary engine. It was an interesting idea at one time, but the modern piston engine has simply surpassed it in almost every measure. The only thing it really did better was power-to-weight ratio, and that has become less of an advantage with modern lightweight V8s that output hundreds of reliable horsepower with more than ample torque to match.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
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Eh? I think you're way off there. The RX-8 is quite talented on track.
e.g.,
TG lap times:
54 Mazda RX8 1.31.8
55 Nissan 350Z 1.31.8
56 BMW M3 1.31.8
...
72 Honda Civic Type-R 1.36.5
jag, check out the 16X. 280hp, more torque with better gas mileage and it weighs the same or less than the 13B thats going to go into the next rx-8. if you also look at the gas mileage as to high output 4cyl and some 6's which is what the rotary challenges quite well, the gas mileage is the same with equal or greater horsepower. in generally all sports cars with similar intentions and power, the rotaries gas mileage is generally the same, and these are engines from at least 10 years ago. i had this argument with someone already.
http://www.rotorwiki.com/index...uel_Economy_Comparison
yes rotaries have had problems in the past. but the rotary engine really isn't nearly as old as the piston engine and hasn't had nearly as much money spent on R&D as to conventional piston based engines.
i still say this will not be the next rotary powered car. mostly because its a concept and its not that well styled. it may become a vehicle in another 5+ years, but not any time soon.
edit: btw. here's the possible rx-9. http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C14184/ December 28th, 2007.
its possible, but I'm going to pull out the 45% BS, 45% truth, and 10% someone just trying to look good. and even i dont like the front grill that much. the tail could use some work, but the grill...GEH.
http://www.rotorwiki.com/index...uel_Economy_Comparison
yes rotaries have had problems in the past. but the rotary engine really isn't nearly as old as the piston engine and hasn't had nearly as much money spent on R&D as to conventional piston based engines.
i still say this will not be the next rotary powered car. mostly because its a concept and its not that well styled. it may become a vehicle in another 5+ years, but not any time soon.
edit: btw. here's the possible rx-9. http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C14184/ December 28th, 2007.
its possible, but I'm going to pull out the 45% BS, 45% truth, and 10% someone just trying to look good. and even i dont like the front grill that much. the tail could use some work, but the grill...GEH.
I know for a fact that some of those lap times are way off because they forgot to specify which tests were in the rain and which were not...from my experience watching TG over the past 8 seasons or so, I know that at least 20 of those tests were done in the rain. For example, the Honda NSX-R got a pretty bad time of 1:31.6 (so you'd think an RX-8 was about as good, right?)...but that test was done in pouring rain, so the NSX-R's race-like tires and RWD led to at least a 4 second penalty in time...and they never specified that on the website. I know because I remember from watching that very episode.
Now...about the Civic, then. I am not sure whether the time they posted on the website is believable, because on the new series ep. 6, they tested the new European spec Civic Type R, which is heavier, has no more power, and does away with IRS in favor of a torsion beam setup...all of which make it SLOWER on a track than the old Civic Type R...yet even this new car got a 1.33.5...so yeah, I'm not sure that TG is the best source to go to for lap time comparisons.
If you look at some of the Best Motoring shootouts (Japanese car series), the RX-8 has been beaten around the track almost every single time even against less powerful rivals like the S2000, JDM Integra Type R, and JDM Civic Type R (220HP, IRS). These tests are done on well-known cicruits such as Tsukuba or Suzuka and are the cars are driven by top Japanese racing drivers. I find these tests to be much more trustworthy than a single TG test in unspecified conditions...
In almost every single BMI track shootout around Tsukuba or Suzuka, the RX8 has come in last place or second to last place to less powerful cars like the CTR, ITR, and S2k.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
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Um, you can't even get the CTR in the US, so I think the UK spec previous gen CTR is a good comparison. Sitgs have changed and may account for different times, hence the show lap time board only shows the current stig times.
That not withstanding the same stig on the same track went round it faster in the 8 than in the CTR. The TG tests are very trustworthy. The conditions are reported and they don't just do the single lap you end up watching. If you remember the CCX ended up being one of the fastest around the track after advisement by the current Stig that the rear end needed a spoiler to keep it planted. The fact it is not a 'well known' circuit is irrelevant. It's a circuit and you have to get around it as fast as possible, just like any other.
My point still stands, the RX-8 is handy on a track. I'm not saying it's going to set the world on fire, but it is handy.
That not withstanding the same stig on the same track went round it faster in the 8 than in the CTR. The TG tests are very trustworthy. The conditions are reported and they don't just do the single lap you end up watching. If you remember the CCX ended up being one of the fastest around the track after advisement by the current Stig that the rear end needed a spoiler to keep it planted. The fact it is not a 'well known' circuit is irrelevant. It's a circuit and you have to get around it as fast as possible, just like any other.
My point still stands, the RX-8 is handy on a track. I'm not saying it's going to set the world on fire, but it is handy.
This page lists the Top Gear lap times and includes weather conditions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Laps
There are various Civics at 89, 98, and 117. The one at 117 is listed as wet conditions.
The RX-8 is at position 81 on this list. And the time is about a second faster than any Civic on the list.
A different track could be a different story, but on this particular one, the RX-8 seems to come out ahead.
I like the "RX-9" in Truenofan's post. Looks much better than the one the OP linked to. I could see it going to production looking very similar to that. I'm hoping they bring back twin-turbos on the rotary. And/Or some electric motors in the front wheels to give it more torque and an AWD-ish launch.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,570
- 969
- 126
here's the triple rotor 450hp mid rear Mazda Furai concept.
http://www.dpccars.com/photos/...-07-01-Mazda-Furai.jpg
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel....il.home.photopanel..1
i so want to see mazda take on le mans again. the engine just feels like its designed to go racing. it loves revving, it loves revving for long periods of time, and it takes abuse like its nothing. btw, if i were to see something like that behind me on the race track i'd probably shat myself immediately and pull over.
http://www.dpccars.com/photos/...-07-01-Mazda-Furai.jpg
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel....il.home.photopanel..1
i so want to see mazda take on le mans again. the engine just feels like its designed to go racing. it loves revving, it loves revving for long periods of time, and it takes abuse like its nothing. btw, if i were to see something like that behind me on the race track i'd probably shat myself immediately and pull over.
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