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Mayday! Mayday! Man down!

Fardringle

Fardringle

Diamond Member
It's a long story that you don't want to read, so I won't bother telling the whole thing.

The short version of the story is that my socket A Barton 2600+ died yesterday and needs to be replaced. The rest of the PC seems to be fine still since it works OK with the XP 2000+ CPU from my wife's computer.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide between a regular Barton XP 2500+ (333Mhz FSB) and an XP-M 2600+. They are both virtually the same price but the XP-M comes in a bundle with a Biostar mATX motherboard that I don't want so I can sell it off for a few bucks to make the price even cheaper. I don't have ANY money to replace/upgrade stuff but I really need to have my computer working so I can manage to scrape together around $100 for a new processor. I might even consider a newer NF3 or NF4 board and CPU combo if I could get one around that price if such a thing exists, but that would mean replacing my current video card (AGP 6600GT as well).

The main question is, which CPU will do better (i.e. overclock further) in my MSI K7NA Delta2 LSR motherboard cooled by a Thermalright SLK-800C heat sink (45CFM YS-Tech fan). One of my primary concerns is that I know the XP-M's multiplier is unlocked, but will it be able to run at 200Mhz FSB (at a lower multiplier, of course) or do they usually top out around 333Mhz? My old Barton 2600+ would do 200Mhz FSB no problem and I really liked the extra memory/BUS bandwidth for games and stuff. I believe the regular XP 2500+ multiplier is also unlocked (it was on my old 2600+) but I don't know how to tell for sure.


Just for reference, these are the links to the deals I'm looking at:

Barton XP 2500+ OEM (512K 333mhz) $80: http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=564

Biostar mATX motherboard and Athlon XP-M 2600+ ($129 from geeks site, $25 less on their eBay store): http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=M7VIG400-2600-N&cat=MBB (There's also an eBay coupon floating around for $15 off $100 when using PayPal to make it about $90 total.)
 
Update: I just found this combo on NewEgg for a PCChips board and a socket 734 "mobile" 2800+. I wasn't aware that AMD made mobile 734's, or for that matter, 734's on the Barton core. 😛

Looks interesting if it's legitimate, but I definitely wouldn't be able to use my MSI board with this CPU so I'd have to rely on the generally nonexistent overclocking ability of the PCChips motherboard. On the plus side, it does have an AGP slot so I can use my same video card. Any thoughts?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813185062
 
So, for those of you that don't want to read the whole thing, here's the really short version:

Get the Biostar/XP-M 2600+ socket A combo for ~$90 and use my MSI Delta2 and sell the Biostar motherboard?
OR
Get the PCchips/XP-M(?) 2800+ socket 734 for ~$105 and use the PCChips board and sell my MSI motherboard?
 
Those are pretty decent prices for used with those motherboards, Freewolf. I'd rather get new for the same price, though, particularly since I don't need the motherboard...
 
There are issues with running XPMs on 200FSB ,it seems they are picky about the multiplier ,though it could be related to a particular mbrd or chipset ,I can't remember.
I suggest you do a search about it to get a clear picture.

Btw
<------ XPM 2500 @ 2.51 GHz ,1.66v 😀
(goes upto 2.63 GHz with more vcore & lots more heat!:Q)
 
Originally posted by: Assimilator1
There are issues with running XPMs on 200FSB ,it seems they are picky about the multiplier ,though it could be related to a particular mbrd or chipset ,I can't remember.
I suggest you do a search about it to get a clear picture.

Btw
<------ XPM 2500 @ 2.51 GHz ,1.66v 😀
(goes upto 2.63 GHz with more vcore & lots more heat!:Q)
Click to expand...

This directed at me?

I don't think its a mobile chip?
 
If you have a Fry's in the area look at their CPU\mobo combos. I picked up an A64 3000+ and ECS motherboard for about $130 a couple months ago for my Dad, but you could get a Sempron cheaper. The board was the ECS 755-A2 which Anandtech actually liked a lot. Just don't expect any overclocking miracles 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
Originally posted by: Assimilator1
There are issues with running XPMs on 200FSB ,it seems they are picky about the multiplier ,though it could be related to a particular mbrd or chipset ,I can't remember.
I suggest you do a search about it to get a clear picture.

Btw
<------ XPM 2500 @ 2.51 GHz ,1.66v 😀
(goes upto 2.63 GHz with more vcore & lots more heat!:Q)
Click to expand...

This directed at me?

I don't think its a mobile chip?
Click to expand...

no😕 ,lol 😛


Btw Fardringle here in the UK an XPM 2500 costs ~£65 whilst a respectable 754 mbrd and Sempron64 costs ~£90 , worth it if you can strech a little further as those Semp64s overclock to 2.5-2.8GHz+ with the right mbrd 😀

 
So if I'm reading right, you (Assim and Reaper) would pick a CPU with 128K L2 cache and a locked multiplier (the socket 754 Sempron 2600+) over a CPU that runs at the same speed but has 512K cache and is completely unlocked (the XP-M 2600+)?

If the Sempron has to be overclocked exclusively by the FSB like it appears from the reviews I've seen, then I'd also have to get new RAM. The memory I have now does 200/400FSB just fine but won't go above 202/404 and strangely enough won't do anything at all (won't even post) between 183/366 and 199/398FSB. Setting the FSB at 200/400 and tweaking the multiplier is really all the overclocking I can do with the memory I have now, so I'd have to figure in the cost of two new 512MB sticks of RAM if I go with the Sempron and want to overclock it...


edit: Fixed a weird "quote" typo that wasn't supposed to be in there.
 
You xan use memory dividers when you overclock the Sempron, so your RAM isn't an issue. The Semprons are based on the Athlon 64 which means that they are MUCH faster than a similarly clocked Athlon XP, plus they'll run cooler. I'd bet that your current RAM issues are actually caused by your motherboard. The Sempron is your best bet IMO.
 
The Sempron does sound intruguing, and it would force me to get around to re-installing XP on the machine. It's needed it for a while but I've been too lazy. 😉

However, the memory clock issue is definitely the RAM itself. It does the same thing on two different computers, both of which work just fine at all speeds I tried with the RAM from the other PC (it's my wife's PC and my CPU ran at 200FSB but hers - a regular Athlon XP - won't do 200 so she needs the RAM that will do different clock speeds).


The one thing that concerns me is the 128KB cache. I don't play any new FPS games, but I do play a lot of games including an MMORPG, so gaming performance (cache speed matters a lot) is important to me. Would there be a significant difference in gaming quality with the lower cache amount or would the overall speed of the socket 754 CPU negate the cache issue?

Also, the only Biostar motherboards I've ever used (some time ago) were utter trash. Has Biostar improved recently or will I expect the same from the board in that combo? If it's a poor (or even moderately OK) board, it's really not an option for me. I upgrade every 18 months to 2 years at most, so I need stuff that will be reliable.


Thanks again for your input!
 
Originally posted by: MDE
If you have a Fry's in the area look at their CPU\mobo combos. I picked up an A64 3000+ and ECS motherboard for about $130 a couple months ago for my Dad, but you could get a Sempron cheaper. The board was the ECS 755-A2 which Anandtech actually liked a lot. Just don't expect any overclocking miracles 🙂
Click to expand...

An Athlon 64 would be sweet, especially at that price. Unfortunately there isn't a Fry's within 600 miles of me and I don't see anything interesting on Outpost.com.
 
Originally posted by: The Reaper
I'd go with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138240 and this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138240 combo for $130. NF3 mobo with AGP.
Click to expand...


That might be the best option so far. A Socket 754 Biostar board with a Sempron 2600+ for $116 shipped. Is it enough better than a Socket A XP-M 2600+ on my MSI Delta2 motherboard for $90 to be worth the extra $26 that I don't have? 😉

Whatever option I go with, the second motherboard will be sold on the FS/FT forums to make up a bit of the cost, but I'm still a little concerned about the Sempron only having 128KB of cache compared to the 512KB on the XP-M.

Any final comments to help me decide which one to order? I'd really like to get that machine back up and running soon so I can stop using this P3-866 that can't run my games at anything better than a painful crawl...
 
In response to my own question, Page 6 of this review indicates that the low cache has almost zero effect on office and media applications, and a generally small (and acceptable) performance hit in games. I've also found some reviews that say that Biostar K8NHA is a solid, stable, easily overclocked motherboard so unless I get a big "NO! DON'T DO IT!" from someone before I get home from work in the morning, it looks like that will be the new hard of my system.

On the bright side, my wife said yes (she is in charge, after all 😉) to letting me buy a new Seagate 160GB Barracuda hard drive and I'll be picking that up in the morning so it will be ready for a brand new install of Windows XP when the new motherboard and CPU arrive. 🙂
 
At least you'll have everything waiting for your new motherboard. Mine will be waiting for a new PCIe video card. Nobody here would want to take an AGP X800XL or 6800GT as a trade for a PCIe equivalent would they?
 
Originally posted by: Fardringle
So if I'm reading right, you (Assim and Reaper) would pick a CPU with 128K L2 cache and a locked multiplier (the socket 754 Sempron 2600+) over a CPU that runs at the same speed but has 512K cache and is completely unlocked (the XP-M 2600+)?

If the Sempron has to be overclocked exclusively by the FSB like it appears from the reviews I've seen, then I'd also have to get new RAM. The memory I have now does 200/400FSB just fine but won't go above 202/404 and strangely enough won't do anything at all (won't even post) between 183/366 and 199/398FSB. Setting the FSB at 200/400 and tweaking the multiplier is really all the overclocking I can do with the memory I have now, so I'd have to figure in the cost of two new 512MB sticks of RAM if I go with the Sempron and want to overclock it...


edit: Fixed a weird "quote" typo that wasn't supposed to be in there.
Click to expand...

Yes to your question but no to your 2nd part😉

On Ath64 & S754 Semp systems you can alter the FSB to RAM ratio ,& because of their on chip memory controller there is no significant loss in performance dues to running RAm Asynch.
So you can keep your RAM in spec & still overclock the s**t out of the FSB 😀

Also bear in kind that an Ath64(939) at the same clock speed as an Ath XP is about 25% faster ,of course the Semp has less cache & single channel RAM but it won't take all of that 25% away.[edit]Seems the 754 Semp 2600(1.6GHz) is about 15% faster on average than a Skt A Semp 2600(1.83GHz)(Ath XP(256KB L2) aka).

Btw if you get the Semp 2800 ,64bit version, it has 256KB L2 cache ,its only £6 more than the 2600 here in the UK so its worth it for that tiny bit more cash 😉 (that's the CPU I had in mind for you in the 1st place)

Remember the Semp 2800 is clocked at 1.6GHz so it is crucial that you get a mbrd that overclocks to high levels.300FSB will give you 2.4GHz,250 = 2GHz
I've only just thought that the low multipliers on the Semp 2600/2800s will limit your overclock 🙁,the 3000 would be better but that's £15 more than the 2600.Though it could potential o/c to 2.7GHz with a 300FSB(aka HTT) 😀

If I read right your old XP 2600 was at 2.3 GHz?
If you want a really cheap option why not just buy an XP2600 off ebay 😉 lol

Did you read this page? (I swear I read it after this post😛)

 
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