Maybe Elon Musk is not as smart as he thinks he is

[NoTine42]

Unless you stop your Tesla by intentionally ramming things you'll need brake jobs.

Heard of regenerative braking?
Tesla does also uses traditional brakes as a secondary system, but with reduced usage, the traditional brakes should last much longer.

 

[sswingle]

Heard of regenerative braking?
Tesla does also uses traditional brakes as a secondary system, but with reduced usage, the traditional brakes should last much longer.

Indeed. Hear BMW i3 owners talking about going for entire trips without ever touching the brake pedal. (The i3 is unique in this regard, you regen by letting off of the gas and only use the brake in the "oh shit" moments). But any BEV or hybrid is going to be in regen instead of brakes up to a certain point.

 

[HopJokey]

Indeed. Hear BMW i3 owners talking about going for entire trips without ever touching the brake pedal. (The i3 is unique in this regard, you regen by letting off of the gas and only use the brake in the "oh shit" moments). But any BEV or hybrid is going to be in regen instead of brakes up to a certain point.

The Tesla Model S is like that as well (one pedal driving they call it).

 

[ultimatebob]

It doesn't surprise me that the Tesla showrooms aren't all that busy at this point, considering that every model being built now was pre ordered months ago.

If you ordered a Model S now, you wouldn't get it until 2016. You might as well wait for the next model at this point.

 

[HopJokey]

It doesn't surprise me that the Tesla showrooms aren't all that busy at this point, considering that every model being built now was pre ordered months ago.

If you ordered a Model S now, you wouldn't get it until 2016. You might as well wait for the next model at this point.

Hmm I went to teslamotors.com, built a vehicle and it said expected delivery March 2015...

 

[Kaido]

Hmm I went to teslamotors.com, built a vehicle and it said expected delivery March 2015...

Maybe he meant the Model X (SUV).

 

[Blitzvogel]

Hmmmm

Elon Musk has five successful enterprises under his belt, including two industry leading ones that have captured the hearts and minds of billions of dollars (Tesla and Space X). Both are revolutionizing their respective industries. I'd love to see Space X go public and put out an IPO. However, the fact that Space X is more like a labor of love for Elon makes that company even sweeter and much more cool than all the other corporations that waste time and energy making sure the investors are happy.

And I'm really happy that Space X chose Brownsville for their new commercial launch site. It will do wonders for that area and the state.

 

[cliftonite]

no. dari is really good at helping his friend drug his pregnant girlfriend so she has an abortion (and gain financially from it). Oh and trying to help out a friend wanted by authorities.

hmmm

i can be missing some too.

WTF?

 

[chowderhead]

Technology and information changes the car industry just like almost every other industry. Those that will not adapt to changes will lose market shares and potentially go out of business. A dealership is basically a middleman between the car company and the consumer. If they can provide utility to the consumer such as proximity, or providing information or the consumer wants to test drive before buying, the business model can continue. But people now can go onto the internet and research cars and options. Some want to talk to a salesman but maybe some don't. Telsa cuts out one middleman just like internet shopping and the malls. There will always be people that want to go to the mall and pick up something and there are people that are okay with ordering it online. It's direct to the consumer and some states don't want that as the dealerships employ a lot of people and so the politicians pass laws that limit people's choices.

Apple sold their products in other stores and online but then opened up their own stores because some people like to test out the products before buying but some people are okay with buying online. It's just expands the market for selling their products to the most consumers.

Why is OP so anti-consumer choice?

 

[Dari]

I don't think that's a true statement.

In fact, and this is the reason they aren't using dealerships, is that it adds bloat to the price.

Dealerships were necessary back in the day when there was no internet, cars were falling apart, and it was impossible for the auto manufacturers to roll out 10,000 service stations.

The only compromise was to bring in a 3rd party to shoulder the burden and expense of setting up individual dealerships and then sharing profits with them.

Tesla doesn't need this. It's 2015, yo.

Isn't a friend or something going to be a head of state of some unnamed country?

Technology and information changes the car industry just like almost every other industry. Those that will not adapt to changes will lose market shares and potentially go out of business. A dealership is basically a middleman between the car company and the consumer. If they can provide utility to the consumer such as proximity, or providing information or the consumer wants to test drive before buying, the business model can continue. But people now can go onto the internet and research cars and options. Some want to talk to a salesman but maybe some don't. Telsa cuts out one middleman just like internet shopping and the malls. There will always be people that want to go to the mall and pick up something and there are people that are okay with ordering it online. It's direct to the consumer and some states don't want that as the dealerships employ a lot of people and so the politicians pass laws that limit people's choices.

Why is OP so anti-consumer choice?

Maybe the nuances of my argument was not more clear. I am not "anti-consumer". I am not even pro-dealership. All I am saying is that Musk created a car business. Yes, I understand that he wanted to change the way people bought cars. But the way he went about it was all wrong. Furthermore, instead of creating value for his investors, he squandered it on a fight he should've known would take decades. If I was a Tesla investor, my concern would've been to make as much money as possible, not trying to turn the system on its head. That is why I am criticizing him, from a business perspective not an evangelist perspective. With several car firms making plans to challenge Tesla's EV directly, given their economies of scale, what chance does Tesla have now from the oncoming onslaught? He's still going to be making 20-40k cars a year globally while his much bigger competitors churn out hunddreds of thousands each? He's still going to be selling them in select states because he's banned from doing so in many others? If Musk wants to make a point, he should do it with his own money, not those of his investors.

 

[waggy]

WTF?

oh. you didn't know about dari?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2278771&highlight=mistress

there is another where he wants to know if his "friend" can fly while he is wanted.

 

[cliftonite]

oh. you didn't know about dari?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2278771&highlight=mistress

there is another where he wants to know if his "friend" can fly while he is wanted.

Oh wow, thats nuts.

 

[DrPizza]

If I was a betting man, I'd short Tesla's stock.

You posted this on June 23, 2013.
Tesla Motors stock was $99.55 on June 21, 2013 It has not been below the price it was at when you announced you'd short their stock. Not even 1 cent below.

Took a while but the arrogance is abating and harsh reality is finally setting in at Tesla.

You made that post yesterday. Tesla Motors stock is 196.57 today, up 4.64 from yesterday when you again announced how bad they were doing. I can only imagine the financial reporting "And Tesla Motors is up another $4.64 on news from Dari that they're doing bad."

I'm going to go out on a limb here: you don't know what you're talking about. That's the polite way of saying...

 

[Dari]

You posted this on June 23, 2013.
Tesla Motors stock was $99.55 on June 21, 2013 It has not been below the price it was at when you announced you'd short their stock. Not even 1 cent below.


You made that post yesterday. Tesla Motors stock is 196.57 today, up 4.64 from yesterday when you again announced how bad they were doing. I can only imagine the financial reporting "And Tesla Motors is up another $4.64 on news from Dari that they're doing bad."

I'm going to go out on a limb here: you don't know what you're talking about. That's the polite way of saying...

Uh, that's because I don't take chances with my money. I was under no illusion that this stock would fall. Tesla's promises are too much for the animal spirits to ignore. But the firm still hasn't made much, if any, profit. And with competitive products coming on stream within the next couple of years, their stock will definitely be hit. No third party dealerships means little to no increase in sales with a dated product and only 2 new ones coming out in the next couple of years.

 

[Brovane]

Uh, that's because I don't take chances with my money. I was under no illusion that this stock would fall. Tesla's promises are too much for the animal spirits to ignore. But the firm still hasn't made much, if any, profit. And with competitive products coming on stream within the next couple of years, their stock will definitely be hit. No third party dealerships means little to no increase in sales with a dated product and only 2 new ones coming out in the next couple of years.

The CEO of Tesla Motors has said several times that the stock price of Tesla Motors is more than they deserve. You realize that Tesla is selling cars outside the US right? The fact that some US states refuse to allow Tesla to build it's own stores also doesn't mean that Tesla cars cannot be sold in the state. The number of cars being delivered continues to increase every quarter. The Tesla Model S is dated? Did you miss the adding of the Auto Pilot feature and the Dual Motors?

 

[TechBoyJK]

damn that Tesla sure is dated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cA1doO_9h8

 

[Dari]

The CEO of Tesla Motors has said several times that the stock price of Tesla Motors is more than they deserve. You realize that Tesla is selling cars outside the US right? The fact that some US states refuse to allow Tesla to build it's own stores also doesn't mean that Tesla cars cannot be sold in the state. The number of cars being delivered continues to increase every quarter. The Tesla Model S is dated? Did you miss the adding of the Auto Pilot feature and the Dual Motors?

And those numbers are small fry. It's good that the seismic shift in attitude has changed at Tesla over selling via dealerships because, hopefully for them, they can start making deals and, eventually ramp up production. They're going to need all the sales they can get when direct competitors come about in the next couple of years. It's sad that they've wasted their long lead time on something that was never going to happen suddenly. Worse, their automotive partners have sold their stocks and have abandoned collaboration, a sure sign that they too will be bringing out competing products.

Finally, yes I did see the auto-pilot and dual motor. It's nothing special and other firms either already such tech or they will be happening soon. While nice, they're features that do not change the terrible seats and other spartan characteristics of the car.

 

[OverVolt]

Musk cofounded Paypal and Tesla, founded SpaceX and is worth billions. I do not know how smart he thinks he is but I think it would be hard for even him to overestimate it. Still, I think that the small retail coverage that he has is not a detriment because the service range of the Tesla is going to be limited to the roll out of the charging stations. There is not much point in placing dealers in regions that are not covered by the stations. This way he can concentrate roll outs in specific metros and routes while concentrating sales in these regions at the same time. It is not enough to have a decent EV; you need the infrastructure along with it and that is something that they are working to address.

Easy come easy go. Musk is not a sure thing until its actually an established mass market electric car maker, as they claim. For now its just a luxury toy. I understand thats what is needed to get from A to B and actually get the funding for the gigafactory and whatnot.

To be honest, I think Musk will ultimately go bankrupt and the person who buys all their assets (gigafactory) for some percentage on the dollar is actually going to be the stable company. Musk has to please too many people to ever manage a STABLE and ESTABLISHED electric car automaker.

It kind of reminds me of Donald Trump vs Elon Musk.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/...dly-file-for-bankruptcy-and-still-stay-on-top

Elon musk is a win-lose bet. Either he pulls it off or fails spectacularly. I don't see Tesla being the type of company that can survive a bankruptcy.

 

[manimal]

Didnt he just get 2billion in investment and get valued at 11 plus Billion?

He has 3 or 4 different irons in the fire and Im most exited about the satellite mesh network.

 

[stlc8tr]

It kind of reminds me of Donald Trump vs Elon Musk.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/...dly-file-for-bankruptcy-and-still-stay-on-top

Elon musk is a win-lose bet. Either he pulls it off or fails spectacularly. I don't see Tesla being the type of company that can survive a bankruptcy.

Musk still holds $1B in Solar City stock.

Plus whatever amount of shares in SpaceX (recently valued at $10B).

 

[Brovane]

And those numbers are small fry. It's good that the seismic shift in attitude has changed at Tesla over selling via dealerships because, hopefully for them, they can start making deals and, eventually ramp up production. They're going to need all the sales they can get when direct competitors come about in the next couple of years. It's sad that they've wasted their long lead time on something that was never going to happen suddenly. Worse, their automotive partners have sold their stocks and have abandoned collaboration, a sure sign that they too will be bringing out competing products.

Finally, yes I did see the auto-pilot and dual motor. It's nothing special and other firms either already such tech or they will be happening soon. While nice, they're features that do not change the terrible seats and other spartan characteristics of the car.

I guess you also missed the new seats also in the D. How many firms have a four door performance sedan that does a 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? How many car manufacturers do over the air updates to their cars? How many manufacturers have a super-charging network like Tesla Motors?

They are increasing production. There is only so much they can ramp up production considering where they came from and the limitations of Capital on hand. It isn't like they can flick a switch and go from 25,000 cars in a year to 250,000 cars in a year. A increase in production of 40-50% each year is perfectly healthy for them, I would be concerned that scaling production increases beyond this would create quality issues. They are also learning as they go along how to produce quality cars, as evidenced by the quality issues in earlier production cars. Also battery production, Panasonic could also only produce so many batteries. It doesn't matter if you can produce 250,000 cars a year if you can only get batteries for 100,000 cars a year, does it? Tesla is building the battery production and factory capability to hit 1/2 Million cars by the end of the decade. I have no idea if it will be enough but not buying into the traditional dealer network setup will not be the difference between success and failure for them.

 

[Brovane]

Easy come easy go. Musk is not a sure thing until its actually an established mass market electric car maker, as they claim. For now its just a luxury toy. I understand thats what is needed to get from A to B and actually get the funding for the gigafactory and whatnot.

To be honest, I think Musk will ultimately go bankrupt and the person who buys all their assets (gigafactory) for some percentage on the dollar is actually going to be the stable company. Musk has to please too many people to ever manage a STABLE and ESTABLISHED electric car automaker.

It kind of reminds me of Donald Trump vs Elon Musk.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/...dly-file-for-bankruptcy-and-still-stay-on-top

Elon musk is a win-lose bet. Either he pulls it off or fails spectacularly. I don't see Tesla being the type of company that can survive a bankruptcy.

You do realize that he owns 60% of SpaceX right? That company that sends supplies to the ISS and has a 2.6 Billion contract with NASA for Commercial crew flights. They also have Billions in booked flights with private commercial companies for launches.

 

[Ruptga]

You posted this on June 23, 2013.
Tesla Motors stock was $99.55 on June 21, 2013 It has not been below the price it was at when you announced you'd short their stock. Not even 1 cent below.


You made that post yesterday. Tesla Motors stock is 196.57 today, up 4.64 from yesterday when you again announced how bad they were doing. I can only imagine the financial reporting "And Tesla Motors is up another $4.64 on news from Dari that they're doing bad."

I'm going to go out on a limb here: you don't know what you're talking about. That's the polite way of saying...

IOW, posting in a Dari thread.

 

[disappoint]

Elon Musk is not as smart as I think I am.

Je suis Dari.

 

[AmdEmAll]

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/20/technology/spacex-google-fidelity/index.html

Yeah he's just doing terrible...